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View Poll Results: Your choice?
Small bike (<400cc) 80 22.54%
Medium (e.g. 400 - 800cc) 233 65.63%
Big (litre class) 42 11.83%
Voters: 355. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 20th April 2020, 14:09   #256
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by deepfreak15 View Post
I thought this thread was about which motorcycle would you want to tour on and not which one makes financial sense in the long run. If someone buys a motorcycle and derives as much pleasure he/she can and dumping it before it starts getting heavy on the wallet isn't that a smart thing to do ?
This is highly subjective and ambiguous to a greater extent.

Cause what I break at 50k km's while commuting to work would be something you break within 10k km's when on a 15k km's ride to the North Eastern states.

Personally my take is one shouldn't tour on something they cannot afford to wreck, for reasons obvious to those who've ever experienced any kind of mishap while on an extended ride.

Quote:
I am making a trip to your neck of the woods
I am looking forward to it especially since I'd be sober this time, though I doubt it'd be flag-off time so soon. Yet to sort the specifics and also convince my co-rider.

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I beg to differ, our own krishnaprasadgg is happily munching miles on an R1
KP is an anomaly, he has a reputation of whacking miles irrespective of what he rides, and over the years I've lost count.

Cheers,
A.P.

Last edited by ashwinprakas : 20th April 2020 at 14:12.
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Old 20th April 2020, 14:21   #257
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
This is highly subjective and ambiguous to a greater extent.

Cause what I break at 50k km's while commuting to work would be something you break within 10k km's when on a 15k km's ride to the North Eastern states.

Personally my take is one shouldn't tour on something they cannot afford to wreck, for reasons obvious to those who've ever experienced any kind of mishap while on an extended ride.
Ah now you are just trying to defend your choice with something that goes completely against my understanding of what the poll was in the first place.
Q: What would you like to tour on
A: I like to tour on a big bike
Now one can further drill this down to what kind of touring does one like to partake in etc. In my case I prefer to tour exclusively on well paved roads with my Mrs pillion and rest for the night in a nice comfortable place that preferably has a bathtub and a massage parlour included. So in short I see no logic in your post about things breaking 1km or 50K km later. Things can go wrong on any vehicle and any road.

I think we should just stick to posting what ones choice of ride would be and why and encourage everyone else's choice or inclination . I think that comes pretty close to the true spirit of biking and biking "bros", you agree ?

Last edited by deepfreak15 : 20th April 2020 at 14:23.
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Old 20th April 2020, 14:22   #258
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

I think a flowchart of sorts should be possible to help categorization. Here's my first pass at it, consider it a poor man's logic if you must. But it helps kick-start the thought process.

Pre-conditions:
1. One bike and one bike only.
2. Emotional quotient is a given.
3. If money is not an issue, it implies that the individual is ready to bear cost of service/maintenance.
4. The logic should make sense for as many people as possible. That may not include a 100% now but once refined, should cater to all.

Big vs Small Touring Bikes-bikeselector.png

Obviously it can be refined over time. Do give it a thought. I had "some" free time so went about this based on what I understood of the opinions I read on this thread.

P.S.:
This is what I would want personally (not in any particular order):
-High service-ability
-Low-maintenance
-Easy spare-parts availability
-Low-end torque for city
-Fatigue-free top-end (60PS at 8k/60Nm at 7k)
-Spoked tubeless wheels (19/17 or 21/17 combo)
-Pillion comfort (200mm front travel and at least 180mm at rear, adjustable for preload and rebound)
-Minimal engine heating
-Smooth gearshifts (slipper clutch a must as well as gearshift indicator)
-Multi-level traction control (Road and Rain at least)
-Switchable ABS
-Android Auto/Apple Carplay
-210kgs wet (at max)
-Tall visor, adjustable
-Center-stand
-7lakhs on-road (haha * 1000) - can be made possible if manufactured in India.

The ideal vehicle does not exist. Even if it does, the ideal human rider does not for sure. Human frailties and all that. At present, the V-Strom 650 comes closest to checking most of these boxes, but since money is currently an issue, so I'll ride my Himalayan as best I can
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Old 20th April 2020, 14:42   #259
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by deepfreak15 View Post
I think we should just stick to posting what ones choice of ride would be and why and encourage everyone else's choice or inclination . I think that comes pretty close to the true spirit of biking and biking "bros", you agree ?
Cant disagree with that.

I will bite my urge to relate to my own requirements and reiterate that one needs to contemplate the possibility of wrecking(getting bike fixed, sourcing spares, downtime) their motorcycles when several thousand km's away from home before finalizing their choice. However uncontrollable an urge that may be!
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Old 20th April 2020, 17:03   #260
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Touring is a very large term that changes its meaning depending upon who is using it.

Personally speaking, If I go for a ride in the morning and I am back in the afternoon/evening or even the next day, I would just call it a simple ride and not really touring. I would be covering between 500-700 kms on this ride.

Now I have come across folks who say they went on touring simply because they rode on the highway to the nearest dhabha and not their city coffee shop.

Moving on, there is no one bike fits all.

Yes, you can take a R1 or a Hayabusa to Manali and Rohtang ( I have) but it was excruciating and not pleasant at all. Every km I cursed myself and envied the duke 390 rider who was having a ball of a time and leaving everyone in the dust.
Similarly, when you take a 250/300 cc putter on the highway, soon you will miss all those cc's and horses and the joy of effortless highway riding goes for a toss.

As a rule, if I am touring the highways or open state roads going from state to state, I would take the biggest, fastest and most powerful bike I can get my hands on. It could be a 1000 cc pocket rocket or a hyper bike like a zzr1400 or even an Africa Twin or Tiger. ( I would get an idea of the roads before hand to ensure if a sports bike or a multi purpose bike will be a better fit).

A steady 120-140 kmph is the sweet spot on the highway and with big bikes you have that margin of opening the throttle when the roads open or a commuter acts smart and you want to slip away. Also, riding a 100 bhp bike at 140 is far less tiring than riding a 50 bhp at 120..

Now if touring involves hills its a completely different ball game. You don't need all that power. What you need is agility and ease of riding. On hills it depends if its a multi day extreme off road touring or a simple ride up the hills for a few days. For former I would like to source a Tiger or up and for latter a duke 390 is pure joy. The fun at the twisties that a duke 390 can give you no other bike from 200 cc to 1500 cc can give you. Other than of course the Duke 790. For a quick run up the hills, a Hero Pulse is also great fun.
A few of my friends have bought the 1250 GS. The bike is phenomenal at what it is intended for ( cross continents) but is so intimidating everywhere else you rather not be on one.

If its an out and out extreme off road tour, it makes sense to get hold of a proper adventure tourer ( could be any). You can still take an adventurer tourer on the road but you cannot take a road going pocket rocket when the road completely disappears. The capacity of the bike makes no difference here.

You will always make a compromise when a pick up a particular bike for touring. You just have to ensure that the benefit of taking a particular bike is greater than the loss of leaving it behind. Also, the destination always decides the bike not the other way round.

Lastly, there are some bikes that can do all relatively better than other bikes. A 1000 cc Versys, or the Suzuki Vstrom or even the 790 duke to name a few. Most naked's are very apt as multipurpose touring bikes also. These bikes can cruise faster than normal highway speeds, will deal with some off roads and not kill your wrists and back when the hills show up.

Touring was an activity I immensely enjoyed. Very often, I had just one destination in mind and added more destinations once I reached there. The planning, chalking out the route, roads/places to avoid, identifying the bunks and safe stay and most importantly luggage and how and how much to carry all gave me joy.

Unfortunately it is something I dont indulge in very often anymore.

Last edited by Sheel : 20th April 2020 at 21:03. Reason: Minor typos :-).
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Old 21st April 2020, 01:42   #261
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

I have a 2009 model RE STD CI 350 (the last batch before the model was discontinued). That is the only motorcycle I own and it is that "One bike, Tame all" kind.

I have done city commuting, grocery runs, touring, breakfast runs, chai runs and offroading ! Except some quality niggles like clutch snapping in the middle of reserve forest, ignition timing shift in the contact breaker points, spark plug conking off etc. all of which are sometimes pain in the back when you are far away from civilization, I thoroughly enjoy riding my motorcycle. A perfectly tuned carburetor and ignition timing in STD CI 350 along with the right tires would do wonders and that is all I would need.

Here are photos of some off-roading done almost 10 years ago with a bunch of RE motorcycles.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...iyampathy.html (Enfield Off-Roading - Neliyampathy)

I am also contemplating now to get a new motorcycle with modern and comfort features (read self starter, ABS, slipper clutch etc) in the 250 CC category. Shortlisted FZ25, Gixxer 250 and Dominar 250. Yet to decide which one to go for !
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Old 21st April 2020, 08:53   #262
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by Ride_4_Fortune View Post
I have a 2009 model RE STD CI 350 (the last batch before the model was discontinued). That is the only motorcycle I own and it is that "One bike, Tame all" kind.
I do hope you'd not part with the Bullet, I know a senior enthusiast who owns a last batch CI 350 as well and I've shamelessly drooled over the machine and in fact requested he let me know if he ever plans to part with the motorcycle.

Would be a shame to let something so iconic go to waste.

As for choosing an alternate motorcycle, I'd typed a really long post but the page got refreshed by error and it is forever lost, anyhow to sum it, the Gixxer 250 offers the best of both worlds comparing the FZ25 and CBR250R, machines that are both ends of the spectrum, and if the showroom folk are to be believed offers better FE than both alternatives as well.

Can't comment about the Dominar 250 as I lack experience with it, but liquid cooling is something I'd personally not look forward to especially coming from an air cooled background, for the headache to be worth it I'd need at least the Duke 390's wheelie popping power delivery or the Duke 200's grunt, but yeah mechanical seal failure is a PITA on these KTM engines but I've heard from a fellow enthusiast that the new iterations are provided with an overflow port like the CBR so that even if one seal blows it would not result in coolant mixing with oil.

Anyhow, do opt for detailed test rides before finalizing, the FZ and Gixxer might feel similar within city limits but on the highway the 4V configuration of the Gixxer does make it stand apart quite evidently, so do make sure to make a note of it during the TD.

As for a slipper clutch, you can do your own research on it, personally if I'd had to choose between the slipper clutch and an overall better motorcycle, I'd choose the latter without skipping a beat. There are journalists who advocate such novelty features but do keep in mind these are the same people who go gaga over power modes on 30bhp machines.

Cheers,
A.P.
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Old 21st April 2020, 10:19   #263
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Here's a question, if you guys had to pick one bike to tour India, which would it be?

Conditions: Bone stock; multi-week tour; mix of good highways and bad village roads, but no off-roading required; unplanned touring which means no guarantee of enclosed parking at night, night halts are planned, but stay is not booked in advance so could be at any random lodge; time is not an issue so plans are flexible, no need to cover 'x km in y hours'.

Personally, for a single rider I would pick the XPulse. With a pillion I can't see anything beyond one of the REs (as much as I dislike them!), perhaps the Himalayan.

What are your choices?

Last edited by am1m : 21st April 2020 at 10:21.
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Old 21st April 2020, 10:32   #264
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by am1m View Post
Conditions: Bone stock; multi-week tour; mix of good highways and bad village roads, but no off-roading required; unplanned touring which means no guarantee of enclosed parking at night, night halts are planned, but stay is not booked in advance so could be at any random lodge; time is not an issue so plans are flexible, no need to cover 'x km in y hours'.
Since your criteria mentioned NO Off Road, I'd pick the Versys 650. It is the cheapest and a very very reliable option. It can handle trails given the right shoes.
If you add Off-Road, I would pick the VStrom 650.
Anything else is either too slow, too uncomfortable on one hand or too showy and finicky on the other.

Last edited by Aditya : 22nd April 2020 at 06:54. Reason: Quoted text trimmed
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Old 21st April 2020, 10:33   #265
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

Thanks AP for the suggestions. Sure, I would definitely go for the test rides before finalizing. In fact, I haven't ridden any other motorcycle other than my CI 350 except a Yamaha FZ6R which I rode a bit in the Appalachians in US on the routes like Blue Ridge Parkway, Tail of the Dragon to name some. My reflexes took some time to adjust to the gear system while riding the FZ6R coming from STD CI 350. But to be very honest, I was missing my CI 350 on those routes.

BTW, CI 350 is my daily ride these days. I couldn't ride it much in the last few years as I was away from it due to work reasons and the motorcycle was happily "Rusting in Peace" in the parking lot !

Not trying to be emotional here, but riding a CI 350 is raw motorcycling with its 50 year old technology of decompressor lever, kick start, amp meter which were experienced by those breed of people who have tried their best to keep the culture of motorcycling going in this country.
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Old 22nd April 2020, 16:57   #266
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by Ride_4_Fortune View Post
Not trying to be emotional here, but riding a CI 350 is raw motorcycling with its 50 year old technology of decompressor lever, kick start, amp meter which were experienced by those breed of people who have tried their best to keep the culture of motorcycling going in this country.
No one understands that better than me.

I am also of the opinion that analogue surpasses digital when it comes to character as well as outright reliability.

In-fact this is the major reason why I ride my CT100B(AC CDI, Carburetted) which has been ridden to more parts of the country than my P220(DC CDI, Just as meh! as ECU-FI systems).

After wasting time trying to explain that even the so called old-school classic motorcycles of the day just look so and are basically modern machines under their classic skins, I now just tell people that I'm cheap, which makes better sense to our diaspora than understanding the basics of how things work.

Cheers,
A.P.

Last edited by ashwinprakas : 22nd April 2020 at 17:15.
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Old 24th April 2020, 05:15   #267
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

I am usually an advocate for smaller displacement, especially in the city streets and in twisties. But since the question is specifically about touring, nothing like a liter bike to munch the miles. One ride in an R1200GS or a Versys 1000 is enough to convince me that highway mile-munching gets better with displacement.

In my head touring is not offroading though. They are two different things. So your answer may vary if touring means something else to you.

One more thing, I think it is more about the form-factor of the bike than the displacement. Certain bikes are more distance-friendly, especially the adv-touring category. So much so that it makes more of a difference than displacement does. If you asked me to choose between a Himalayan and an R1 to ride anything more than 100 kilometers in a stretch, I would take the Himalayan.
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Old 8th May 2020, 12:20   #268
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by aargee View Post
For most bikers, whether we have money or not, something like below list remains a dream & reality for some...

1. C250R/KTM/Ninja 300 sort of fast bike within the city or ride from this end to other & office as well

3. Access 125 type of scooters for weekend groceries or acting porter while Wife shops

4. SR150 to drop & pickup kids from school

8. Rx100 to show bikers who come home that I'm part of the clan too

most bikers can never be satisfied with one motorcycle even if they love the one they own.


1) I have a SR150 for my daily commutes,
2) Got my wife an Access 125 for school pick ups,
3) KTM D390 for the blast, any drive thats more than 10kms, i pick up my D390 and have done Chennai -- Goa on it
4) I have a RX 135 (5 speed), which is 18 yrs old and havent sold it yet, not planning to, still ride it once in 20 days or so, just for the exhilirating pick up of a 2 stroke, addictive ...

Still searching for a 3 or 4 cylinder bike, i love all the bikes i own and still want a litre class (Dreams) ...
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Old 8th May 2020, 16:48   #269
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by revv_maniac View Post


1) I have a SR150 for my daily commutes,
2) Got my wife an Access 125 for school pick ups,
3) KTM D390 for the blast, any drive thats more than 10kms, i pick up my D390 and have done Chennai -- Goa on it
4) I have a RX 135 (5 speed), which is 18 yrs old and havent sold it yet, not planning to, still ride it once in 20 days or so, just for the exhilirating pick up of a 2 stroke, addictive ...

Still searching for a 3 or 4 cylinder bike, i love all the bikes i own and still want a litre class (Dreams) ...
Small capacity bikes are faster on Indian roads (at least in Kerala due to narrow and twisty roads). They need less fuel stops and faster on twisty roads.
Me and my brother went to Munnar (hill station that is 120km away from Cochin) in a Rx135 5 speed and Vmax. RX was considerably faster than Vmax.
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Old 8th May 2020, 17:53   #270
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Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes

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Originally Posted by Vmax1200 View Post
Small capacity bikes are faster on Indian roads (at least in Kerala due to narrow and twisty roads). They need less fuel stops and faster on twisty roads.
Me and my brother went to Munnar (hill station that is 120km away from Cochin) in a Rx135 5 speed and Vmax. RX was considerably faster than Vmax.
Small capacity motorcycles have better cornering speeds, the gist of which can be understood by watching this short clip:



Which explains why Moto3 motorcycles are faster than Moto2 and MotoGP bikes in the corners.

And since we have a majority of 1/2 lanes and ghats it is only reasonable why smaller displacement motorcycles are faster.

On a ride to Munnar my CT100B with 120kgs me on board was faster than a lighter fellow enthusiast on his Dominar 400, mostly because I could keep the throttle pinned to WOT before, at and after the apex whereas every other vehicle had to brake to maneuver corners.

Travelogue: CT100B: 700 kms of Munnar, done right!

Being strictly technical, a Scooter or Step-through motorcycle is faster than a conventional motorcycle in the corners, reason being lower CG. A fellow enthusiast who rode a Monster 795 in Vietnam once told us that there are 125cc step-though's that would run circles around him on technical tracks due to this advantage.




Something which was hard to digest at the time due to our limited experience.

As for tank range, I'm not exactly sure cause when ridden fast on KL roads even my 100cc(4 Stroke) motorcycle returns abysmal FE between 30~40kmpl, but I guess comparing the bigger motorcycles that could be considerably more.

Regards,
A.P.
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