[shyamg28]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Small capacity motorcycles have better cornering speeds, the gist of which can be understood by watching this short clip:...

And since we have a majority of 1/2 lanes and ghats it is only reasonable why smaller displacement motorcycles are faster.

Ah but that's not a fair interpretation is it?
After the narrator mentions that Moto3>Moto2>MotoGP in corners, he also mentions that MotoGP bikes have faster deceleration and acceleration, which therefore allows them to be ultimately faster.

Now your experience may say otherwise, but I'd put it down to rider skills, more often than not, than the bike itself.
Meaning that either you are evidently a better rider than your travel partner, or that your partner may not possess the skills to take full advantage of a bigger machine.
I will not be so quick to correlate the capacity of the bike to how fast one can get.

In our country, we can get a license using the greens or a "figure-8". Also, 99% of us do not go through riding schools.
All that just adds up to - "Love riding...hence ride!"

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by shyamg28

Ah but that's not a fair interpretation is it?

Not at all, but you'd need to take the terrain into consideration as well.

I've had a cyclocomputer hooked to my motorcycle and have seen the results first hand, here's an example, when I did a round trip to a few trails to meet up with friends who are also fellow enthusiasts:





The same route as per Google Maps on a good day WITHOUT traffic would take someone about 9 hours, whereas most of my riding was during peak traffic hours and yet I managed to beat the stipulated time by over 2 hours.



GMaps shows less km's as it doesn't compute the trails.

Now I've ridden bigger and faster motorcycles on Kerala roads and even without broken roads as such thrown into the mix, I can guarantee you that it is quite a feat to keep pace with GMaps.

But yes I do agree that generally on the Hills and Highways there really is no replacement for displacement, which after all is a universal fact.

Cheers,
A.P.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

And since we have a majority of 1/2 lanes and ghats it is only reasonable why smaller displacement motorcycles are faster.

On a ride to Munnar my CT100B with 120kgs me on board was faster than a lighter fellow enthusiast on his Dominar 400, mostly because I could keep the throttle pinned to WOT before, at and after the apex whereas every other vehicle had to brake to maneuver corners.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

But yes I do agree that generally on the Hills and Highways there really is no replacement for displacement, which after all is a universal fact.

I dont follow at all here, AP. Smaller bikes are faster in the ghats but in the hills, bigger bikes are faster? What am I missing?

Originally Posted by shyamg28

Ah but that's not a fair interpretation is it?
After the narrator mentions that Moto3>Moto2>MotoGP in corners, he also mentions that MotoGP bikes have faster deceleration and acceleration, which therefore allows them to be ultimately faster.

Now your experience may say otherwise, but I'd put it down to rider skills, more often than not, than the bike itself.
Meaning that either you are evidently a better rider than your travel partner, or that your partner may not possess the skills to take full advantage of a bigger machine.
I will not be so quick to correlate the capacity of the bike to how fast one can get.

Very well said. The video talks about apex speed. That is the speed at just one point of the corner. When we construct the entire corner - entry, apex and exit, with equally skilled riders, the one on the bigger bikes will be faster, unless its a very tight and technical course / mountain section.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I dont follow at all here, AP. Smaller bikes are faster in the ghats but in the hills, bigger bikes are faster? What am I missing?

In the first sentence the reference was to narrow roads, consecutive corners and steady traffic, which is where smaller motorcycles have an advantage.

The second remark i.e gives emphasis to load, because climbing uphill(Read rapid elevation) on a small displacement motorcycle is challenging especially without momentum, even if there is momentum you'd not be able to carry it far, so in such scenarios there simply is no replacement for displacement, these are the kind of sections where a UCE 500 could beat the likes of a CBR250R black and blue when it comes to reaching the top of the hill first.

[darkLightning]

I have gone through this deliberation recently on whether to go for a small touring bike or large (For me large tops out at Versys/ V-Strom 650 and small begins with Xtreme 200S). I am for now choosing small bikes and voted for the same as well reason being that a bigger bike comes with it's own share of problems, costly maintenance and when you are looking for an upgrade your choices are limited. For me an XPulse can also do 80% of what a Versys can do and whenever I feel like upgrading there are many options available.

[kozhissery]

According to me there is no bike that fits all purpose.
Let me just add from the experience of my previous trip to Spiti (Beaky flies north – Spiti on a Suzuki V-Strom 650 XT)

• Felt need for liter class bike when cruising on the long highway. Trivandrum to Chandigarh
• Felt my V-Strom was best when started to climb the mountain. Chandigarh to Kaaza
• Felt the need for a light bike where it was very slippery/slushy and I had to dangle leg. (Hardly couple of kilometers, still felt the need for light bike)

Still I'd bet on middle weight, may be with experience i might change.

I take frequent visits to the local hill station (Ponmudi) which is about 60 odd kilometers from where I stay. I've been there in all modes of transport multiple times. And in the case of two wheeler:

• Activa was the slowest and most tiring.
• TB500/V-Strom were the fastest. May be V-Strom has a smaller speed/comfort advantage, but that is negated by peace of mind in other bikes. You can park your bullet anywhere and nobody will fiddle with that.
• Litre class vehicle, have gone only once and cannot comment on the speed/comfort as that was done as a part of test ride.
• I should not forget the thrill (but not comfortable when the roads are bad) that i felt when i had gone in Yamaha RX100.
• Done on CD100SS, but that was not the fastest nor the most comfortable one.

The advantage of higher output bikes are really not the top speed, rather the ability to pick up its pace to overtake the slow moving bus/auto and the good brakes. So any bike with good grunt (low end torque) and the ability to reach 80/90 would be the best in the roads of Kerala.

[Red Liner]

I love trails. I abhor the highways. I need to ride this thing every day to work. And it needs to be cheap as chips to buy and run long term.

I love trails. But not just in my backyard. I don't mind the cross country travel to reach them. And when i do go off-road, i dont want to be hampered by a big heavy adventure bike. I dont mind spending a bit more to get something thats more travel enduro and less dirt bike.

All of the above, but a bit more power because I don't want to get old just getting to places. And yeah some electronics and adventure pizzazz would be nice. I will still mostly be riding solo on my adventures, the missus likes the malls. And the bike needs to have "road presence"!

You know what? I am not getting any younger and all these cheap adventure bikes just dont do it for me. I want class leading volvo spec suspension and locomotive power. And i need this thing to be as durable as my everyday single blade razor. I don't want the fancy electronics, just power and comfort to get me across ALL roads in no time. The missus and i love our little time together on our bikes.

Most of my friends ride super sport bikes and I don't want to be left out of the game. I don't think i am fit enough to go offroad anyway, so lets scratch that out of the list. I will live vicariously through all the advertising. All those electronics and fancy screens are nice though, should keep me entertained and safe on the National Highway circuits. I like staying at comfortable hotels with safe guarded parking when i travel, i think my bike and i have earned it. But most importantly i need something that gets me to breakfast and beyond quickly, loudly, and seen by everyone. Burn baby!

Yeah and the more expensive the better

///s where appropriate.
All images from google.

[swiftnfurious]

Whats the comparison between the G310S and an A390? If both were priced similar, would it make close competitors?

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Whats the comparison between the G310S and an A390? If both were priced similar, would it make close competitors?

Yes, I think they would be closer competitors - but only based on how you intend to ride them.

310 GS
- carpet like plush suspension over broken roads
- Not the most exciting corner carver because of the above
- you sit IN the bike here
- above average service costs to retain warranty
- some parts seem dubious quality (alternator, battery, clutch) but are replaced under warranty.
- Parts are expensive
- vibes at around 100 kmph, its not a buzz
- Overall build quality of hard parts seem a tad bit better
- the bike is designed for hard top touring (big fairing for wind protection, can add two inch risers easily, huge tall windscreens available)
- power is significantly lower
- has no electronic aids barring switchable abs
- all the hard parts that come standard on the 390 adventure has to be added to the 310 aftermarket, pushing the price difference even further. Crash guards, bash plate, hand guards, radiator guard, serrated pegs, all these are standard on the 390 Adventure. That said, the 310 GS comes with a nice tail rack as standard.
- Some folks find the GS looks much better than the 390 Adventure which can be polarising.

390 Adventure
- suspension is fair over broken roads and fantastic as a corner carver
- service costs are cheap
- long term build quality yet to be seen
- bike is designed to go offroad rather than on road
- you sit ON the bike here.
- electronics, tft screen, toys.
- parts are dirt cheap
- you are hard-pressed to add accessories to this bike. Everything possible is stock already.

If you predominantly find yourself on road and have back related issues, its the 310 GS
For everything else, the 390 Adventure has the GS beat.

Long term ownership of the 390 Adventure is yet to be proven.

[dj_666]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Whats the comparison between the G310S and an A390? If both were priced similar, would it make close competitors?

Having ridden both bikes in city and highway, would anyday go for the 390ADV.

+ Generous lock to lock turn means you can squeeze into lanes in city traffic
+ Much more refined throughout the band(love the ride by wire)
+ Narrow profile and light feel
+ Slices corners effortlessly
+ KTM sells spares across the counter
+ Since the Dukes have been around for a while, more customization options

As red liner mentioned, the long term reliability of KTM is to be proven(the GS is not exempt in this department either)

Thanks

[Red Liner]

The Nicer Way Around: Does Speed Matter?
by Ruman May 24, 2020 |
Should you let speed dictate your touring dreams? Here’s some food for thought

There’s no such thing as the wrong kind of motorcycle to go touring on. There is, in fact, no such thing as even an ideal kind. Motorcycles are an eternally subjective choice, layered with preferences of sensibilities and comfort, but this concept pales in comparison to a heart set on travel in its wholesomeness. The package of sights, sounds, smells, and watching the world go by from behind a visor - you’ve been daydreaming about it all through the lockdown, haven’t you?
‘But, I don’t have a tourer!’

Bet you do. Over the last few decades, people have travelled the world on track-focused superbikes and on commuter motorcycles regarded as a bit too low-capacity even for, well, commuting. Amusingly enough, some of them have even done it twice. So, have most of us missed the memo? Or is it simply bravado that makes people tour on motorcycles designed for anything but? Neither is the answer.


An unappreciated truth is, if your motorcycle is capable of running errands or commuting, it is capable of absolutely any sort of journey. Yes, even if the motorcycle parked downstairs from where you live is a Bajaj CT100 or a Hero Splendor. Sure, these motorcycles lack the equipment that comes with self-styled touring-specific motorcycles such as the Triumph Tiger or the Kawasaki Versys 650 or even a Bajaj Dominar 400, but in terms of capability or even ability, they lack nothing. Seriously.

Broadly speaking, the class-divide between motorcycles exists only because of speed. To narrow it down, the distinction emerges from the various offshoots of speed - the time a journey takes which, in turn, impacts the comfort experienced during the course of a journey. Given how visceral motorcycling is, to some, speed also defines a sort of sensory aesthetic. To my sensibilities, riding at anywhere between 70-90kmph provides just the perfect rate of scenery-blur. It’s also a speed at which I am best equipped to deal with an errant dog. I may have the reflexes to deal with (that is to say, not kill or injure) an errant dog at thrice the speed as well, but I can’t guarantee it. Not always. Skill is a great enabler, but being confident about it hasn’t always served me well. My wife has examples to cite, in case you are interested.



To some, however, this aesthetic coalesces at no less than 140kmph. Speed is a helplessly personal thing. Those who don’t get it this far into humanity, probably won’t ever. On balance, speed definitely is a greater sensation than it is an instrument. Try not to use speed as a tool to get somewhere quickly or even ‘on time’ - unless there’s a curfew awaiting (odd choice of destination, don’t you think?) or an apocalyptic storm you think you can outrun. Speed is a terrible, terrible tool.


Instead of depending on speed, make changes to other things in your itinerary. Things that don’t have fatal consequences in less-than-ideal circumstances, like starting an hour earlier, or taking shorter (or fewer, if you can help it) breaks. Nobody I know has died because they had one burger less, or a smaller Coke, or because they put up fewer Instagram stories in the course of a ride than would be considered respectable. The idea is not to hurry up, but to minimise the potentially fatal situations you can so easily find yourself in, especially on our roads. That way, when you end up with a flat tyre, you don’t have to thrust the burden of completing your journey on ‘extra speed’. The remainder of your ride no longer becomes an act of anxiety or - worse, still - a chore. It continues to be a journey, an enjoyable experience in which you transition from moment to moment seamlessly.

Think about it. You love motorcycles and the experience of riding them. You’ve been raring to sneak in ‘just one little ride’ in the last few months - and you haven’t (right?). Soon enough though, you’ll find yourself on another 12-hour riding day. That’s twelve hours of doing something you love the most. What could explain the hurry to get it over with?

Source: ZigWheels.com: The Nicer Way Around: Does Speed Matter?.
https://www.zigwheels.com/news-featu...-matter/38575/

[shyamg28]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Source: ZigWheels.com: The Nicer Way Around: Does Speed Matter?.
https://www.zigwheels.com/news-featu...-matter/38575/

Beautiful verbiage!

That last but one paragraph - there are conditions that are being added that may not be satisfactory for me.
Why should I eat one less burger, why should I take lesser breaks or why should I shy away from the Gram?

Most things one does in life is conditional on plenty of things as it is.
But if we're free of that, aren't we allowed to just be ourselves and do what we love?

My conditions are simple being a regular IT guy - I've got to be in an office on weekdays. But I can afford taking time off.
Do I want to be thinking of the plan more than riding? I don't think so!

While touring, a faster, more comfortable bike, might allow me that freedom of taking longer breaks, have more chai stops, take more pics if and when I want and so on.
I'm then permitted to enjoy my motorcycle journey rather than spend more time in thinking, or more time in planning.

Again, that's just me and my priorities. Just added my 2 cents

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by shyamg28

Why should I eat one less burger, why should I take lesser breaks or why should I shy away from the Gram?

There's a fancy term for why you shouldn't do the above, Highway hypnosis
.

Basically what most of us fail to comprehend is the limitation of being human. There is only so much the body and mind can handle before it starts to run dry and the risk quotient starts to exponentially go up by the minute.

Which is why seasoned riders exercise strict discipline when on extended rides, as the goal is to use up the better part of your Chi riding and clocking miles rather than weaken it by indulging in counter productive measures because at the end of the day your life is literally on the line.

While touring, a faster, more comfortable bike, might allow me that freedom of taking longer breaks, have more chai stops, take more pics if and when I want and so on.
I'm then permitted to enjoy my motorcycle journey rather than spend more time in thinking, or more time in planning.

"A minute off the saddle is a mile more on the highway!"

Take my word for it, there has been many events in my cumulative mileage of ~250k km's that has proven this over and over again.

I've ridden with riders much older than me who've made the mistake of not respecting this one principle and paid the price.

One event that still sticks to mind is from a ride a few years ago, everyone was having fun and taking more than adequate breaks to the point we had about 400 km's after dusk and that too after riding the whole day up until that point.

During the last break of riding with the group I simply lost my cool because I wear spectacles and riding like hell doing stupid speeds for some time and then taking extended breaks to recover from the same simply wasn't worth the risk especially when riding at night, so we agreed that I'd start early and maintain my own pace and those who felt the same could come along with me whereas the rest would resume their current pace.

Long story short, my speedometer never crossed 70kmph for the remainder of the journey as I am ultra cautious when riding in the dark, whereas a member from the other group said at times he clocked 150kmph on his speedo. But at the end of the day I reached my hometown about 7 hours before the others crossed my place, and I was told that the guys had to stop and take a nap by the side of the road because of highway hypnosis hitting its peak, one rider even told me if it weren't for his engine knocking he wouldn't have regained control of his motorcycle before something bad happened.

And this wasn't even an interstate run.

So I hope sharing this experience would encourage everyone to err on the side of caution when on extended rides. Motorcycling is fun and liberating but at the same time we shouldn't forget that it is just as hazardous.

Ride Hard, Ride Safe,
A.P.

[shyamg28]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

There's a fancy term for why you shouldn't do the above, Highway hypnosis

Informative as that was, it's quite misplaced in terms of a response to what I said above.
The context was in terms of what was written in the Zigwheels article.

I have slept on the wheel, taken my car over a divider while speeding at 100kph and very fortunately, survived!
I'm aware of one of the effects of highway riding without taking appropriate rest, at least.

My point was more around how you can do something more easily if you have the means for it. You buy a Snapdragon 865 so you have the choice to do more with it. What you do with it is entirely up to you.
Similarly with bikes I guess, except, you better be sure of what you want before putting down your money

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

A long list of contestants in this comparo from Overdrive - The Hero XPulse, Royal Enfield Himalayan, BMW G 310 GS, Kawasaki Versys and Suzuki V-Strom 650s, the Tiger 800, BMW F 850 GS, Honda Africa Twin, the Scrambler 1200 and the BMW R 1250 GS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJpCwBGR58c