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-   -   Big vs Small Touring Bikes (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/204117-big-vs-small-touring-bikes-5.html)

Kosfactor 28th November 2018 11:20

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
Even if you do not gain anything from reading this - let me get this one message across.

Fatigue kills - choose the right vehicle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas (Post 4502536)
Well, I apologize if my posts may have come off as bragging or showing off mine or my motorcycles endurance,

In Team BHP everyone`s perspective and opinions are respected, You have yours and others have theirs. You opened the thread with an assumption that its not always the machine , sometimes the rider is the problem. Lets be more open and see what happens.

The title of this thread is 'Touring Bike' , CT100B is hardly even a commuter bike if you consider ring roads in many cities which are like highways (Average speeds on these roads are much higher), it will struggle to keep up with traffic and what cannot keep up with traffic is a sitting duck.

You like CT100 for the values which are close to you, Others may prefer a D390 or a Tiger, remember each person may have a different cruising speed which they like to maintain and a bike to suit this need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas (Post 4502536)
The reason they exist is simply to show the less informed enthusiast that a motorcycle is not as flimsy as one expects it to be,

A commuter bike is not designed for sustained high speed runs - no one is misinformed here about it, there is no reason for Hero to make splendor fit enough to sustain 100+ for hours on end and so it cannot without significantly eroding its engine life. Oh lets not forget, Tires and Brakes - safety is at risk for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas (Post 4502536)
what I've experienced is that a 120~200%+ bump in performance be it as far as displacement, power or torque goes doesn't go well with perceived logic and partly defeats my intended purpose.

You can very well see that a larger displacement engine comes with stronger chassis, Excellent tires, heat management, bigger brakes, ABS, better suspension , a sixth gear and the works, even a change from 150 - to 200 CC gives you a sixth gear, oil cooling, ABS and even better tires etc. Believe me, oil cooler is not there for style the DTSi sticker was perhaps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas (Post 4502536)
As for the CT100B, in spite of owning bigger/better machines, the CT100B has stuck as a favorite because it is quintessentially bare-bone, doesn't even come with a decompressor or TPS for that matter which is a lot to say in this age when even 'Classics' come with the aforementioned features as minimum and a lot more.

The classic manufacturers have opened their eyes to the new realities, we have amazing highways now, you yourself talk about GQ - this means the average speeds have gone up and classics now have to be fit enough to be driven fast for hours together. You know that fuel injection and the works are not really modern, its been there for a long time and are reliable, will it survive the apocalypse ? perhaps not, but I think we have bigger issues to worry about.

Touring is a recreational activity, lets have some fun while we are at it - no need to get fatigued and feel saddle sore, choose the right bike or rent them now that we can.

gauravanekar 28th November 2018 11:46

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
I value frugal touring, like to tour on light but adequately powered two wheeler with decent suspension. Currently I am riding pulsar 200 AS to it's fullest capabilities and I would like to upgrade in a year or two to a segment above motorcycle.
However, calling CT100 as an able tourer is overkill, I have a Yamaha saluto 110 for city commutes (with a sidebox). I've taken it in NiCE road 10-15 times and I can tell you it's not even close to being a tourer. Sorry if I'm being harsh but I've to say that

navin_v8 28th November 2018 12:46

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
Well this is an interesting topic to discuss on. Some things I would like to ponder on are there is no one perfect bike in this world which suits anyone or everyone's need/want. Like they say to each his own. The big and small touring bike is itself a relative term and subjective. In Indian context for someone a 300cc+ bike is a big bike and up to 100cc is a small bike, while for some 500cc+ is a big bike and -300cc is a small bike, while for some 1000cc+ is a big bike and -500cc is a small bike, etc.

I learnt riding on a RE CI Bullet 350 so for me it was a big bike compared to 100cc bikes. I have rode numerous 100 to 300cc bikes both for short and long distances, some of them include Hero Honda Splendor, Super Splendor/Passion, Passion Plus, Karizma R, CBZ, etc. Honda Unicorn/Dazzler/Shine/, etc. Bajaj Pulsar 150/180/220, Platina, Wind, KB125/4S Champion, etc. Yamaha RX100/135, RD350, Crux, FZ, Fazer, etc. TVS Apache 150/180, Fiero, etc. Ideal Jawa Yezdi CL/Roadking 250, etc. Suzuki GS150, Samurai, Shogun, Shaolin, Fiero, etc. All these bikes were good but I found my calling with RE Bullet 350 CI when it came to commuting, grocery runs, touring, etc. It was the best I experienced when it came to fulfilling all my riding needs. For touring, during those days there were very few options available in the domestic market and CI Bullet 350 was every riders' dream for touring in India. It had a torquey motor with simple mechanicals and one could ride it all day long at a lazy 60-70 KMPH during those days when multi-lane highways were limited. I know some of the bikes mentioned above could also do this and even better but I connected with RE Bullet CI 350. During the last 8-10 years there were many options that came up specifically for touring and I am glad our market is opening up to such motorcycles for touring.:thumbs up

Coming back to the topic, firstly it depends on the kind of rider and the sweet spot which the rider likes to cruise whilst touring. For some sweet spot is around 60-70 KMPH while for some it is 80-100 KMPH and for some it is 100-120 KMPH, so on and so forth. But the question is at what RPM and gear is this sweet spot achieved. Like many have mentioned, is the engine running at the top of its limit all the time, is the engine relaxed at the sweet spot speeds mentioned above, etc. Touring itself is a broad term as it includes sport touring, ADV touring, cross country touring, etc.

Another important aspect of touring is the service interval, as in the oil/oil filter change, air filter, lubing, etc. Someone also mentioned about reliability of electronics and other such aids. Well even a highly engineered space shuttle/rocket has reliability issues and we are talking just motorcycles here. Come 2019 with GOI's ruling all the bikes sold here will have to switch to EFi and ABS. These technologies have come a long way since its inception and are evolving day by day. Let me also mention that all mechanical motorcycles with no electronic aids are prone to reliability issues where if one is stuck due to some failure then the bike has to be either towed or one has to go for hunting parts. One example I can relate to is my 1996 RE Bullet 350 CI 4 speed. The pilot jet inside the carburetor had some issues and had worn out prematurely and I was left stranded as I was away from civilization. I had to hitchhike with a good Samaritan to find a store in the middle of nowhere while carrying the pilot jet with me for buying a replacement, the experience taught me that s**t happens.

Other important aspect while touring is the overall ergonomics of the bike, meaning the seating geometry and the overall position. I am on the heavier side so crouching in the front clip-on and rear set foot pegs makes me feel uncomfortable for long tours. The fuel tank capacity also matters if one is taking a detour from the highways into the hinterlands. A tank capacity of minimum 15 litres and above gives some peace of mind. Safety wise one thing that can come between life and death is brakes, add ABS with good quality tyres and it becomes even more safe. This is happening in modern touring bikes offered in India. Some of the high end bikes even have riders aids like traction control, slipper clutch, etc. KTM Duke 390 has all of this but as far as I am concerned I wouldn't be comfortable touring on it. I have tried on my cousin's Duke 390 but just couldn't do it. But that's just me, there are many others who do touring on it, so to each his own. Currently I use my RE Tbird500 for touring and sorely miss ABS on it but I bought it in 2014 when ABS wasn't offered, if RE gives an option to retrofit it then I will be first in line to get it fitted.

I have done my fair share of touring and in my group we allow riders from all genres irrespective of their motorcycle brand, make, cc, etc. some are comfortable with 125-150cc, some are comfortable with 200-250cc while some are comfortable with 250-500cc. We have interchanged our bikes many times while touring, but keep coming back to our own respective bike again and again. I think this sums it up well as to requirements and individual preferences of the riders and their touring machines.

To conclude a bigger touring bike with 500cc+ engine preferably with two or more cylinders will do just fine for me. If budget permits a 1000cc+ engine with 2 or more cylinders will be even better.:D

IMO both the motorcycle and rider have to be relaxed and easy going before/during/while/after touring.

ashwin1224 28th November 2018 13:22

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
Much ado about nothing,this thread.

Ive seen interesting points from both spectrums. I myself side with lighter and smaller capacity bikes, but I've ridden the tigers and the GSs so I know the charms these beauts have in troves. The tiger 800 IMO is the best "touring" bike, in terms of comfort and approachability. The ergonomics are on point, the power delivery is linear, the brakes are sharp and the weight vanishes as you get onto the saddle(you dont even have to get going to feel it). The engine is a gem and will do 100kmph all day long. While there maybe a few instances of some riders facing breakdowns and downtimes, there are thousands who've pushed the bike to its limits and still the motorcycle persists without loosing as much as a fleck of paint.

Another thing that comes to mind, any machine lasts longer and behaves impeccably when you keep it at 40%(or below) of its peak performance. This was something a motorcycle rider much more wiser than me told me, when I asked him to justify his purchase of the N650 since he barely ever crossed 100kmph on it. While it maybe anecdotal, it makes perfect sense to me. Sure, it is impossible to fix a lot of things on a ninja with your standard tool kit on the side of the road, but would anything really go kaput when you're taking a motorcycle designed to get to 200kmph, only upto 80kmph? Probably not. Thats the only point I feel thats been left unsaid in the discussion. Motorcycles have evolved a lot over the years, and they've become really complex pieces of engineering. This does not mean that they've not been tested and are unreliable.

All of that being said, I would very much prefer to tour on a Himalayan or a 390 duke, and not on any of the 500+cc adventure bikes nor the utilitarian commuters.

The bigger bikes because:
  • The attention they incur from over enthusiastic locals, who have potential to cause a lot of trouble.
  • Poor fuel available, and high fuel costs with these gigantic engines
  • The costs involved when you wish to tweak anything to suit your needs, and general cost of ownership and repair.
  • Overkill for the kind of speeds our roads permit and for now, what my skills permit.

The smaller ones because:
  • No aspirational value personally.
  • Low speeds on the highway are unsafe. You have to be faster than the heaviest vehicle on the road IMO.
  • Anaemic engines, which become monotonous after 4-5 days of riding.
  • Poor gradability when loaded.
  • Not designed with the focus purpose built machines have. Instead of doing one or more things really good or atleast better than average, these bikes are designed to be as cheap and economic as possible.

I feel motorcycles like the Versys X300, 310GS, Himalayan and the upcoming 390Adv are perfect as adventure motorcycles. The BMW and Kwacker both have derranged pricing while the Himalayan has its own set of problems with quality control. Like almost every other enthusiast in the nation, Im eagerly awaiting the 390adv, hoping it would bring the 390 engine in the legendary KTM Adv package, at a price point at par or lower than the 310GS.

To sum it up, ideal touring motorcycle should be made outta quality components, preferably over-engineered, about 40hp and 35nm kicking in low in the rev range. Off-road friendly suspension with options for both on and off-road tires. Low seat height but tall enough to provide decent GC. Good fuel capacity and wind protection. I am getting carried away with the wishlist so I'll stop here.:D

nasirkaka 28th November 2018 13:39

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
Money cannot buy everything but there's a mastercard! One bike cannot do everything but there is surely a baby gs which gets pretty close to it, especially in our Indian conditions. Let me elaborate a bit. The case being a single bike to live-with in India where we all know our city riding conditions, good expressways, good and bad highways, good and bad ghats, good and bad country roads and also lack of roads like trails etc.

What is expected of a multipurpose bike: Comfortable, light weight, safe, should be able to do decent speeds on highway, luggage carrying capability when required, robust, and the BMW G310 GS comes pretty close. I have used it for close to 5k kms now and at 33bhp and 168kg its nimble to ride in city, heats less then splendor even in b2b traffic, comfortable and upright posture, good luggage carrying capability, comfortable for pillion as well, superb suspension (feels better than my versys 650), silky smooth gear box, 6 gears, good wind protection, 26kmpl mileage gives 300 plus tank range, strong alloys with very good tubeless tyres, ABS, etc. It can commute with ease in city, can to trails ban roads and a bit of offroad, can also cruise at 120kmph on the highway. unless one is spoilt by the acceleration of multi cylinder big bikes, the baby gs seems like a very practical bike for do it all types.

A few negatives are that it is overpriced for the badge, a bit buzzy at higher rpms, and may not have the mad acceleration. Not trying to deviate from the topic, bikes are purpose built, but if i had to live with one bike for next couple of years, baby GS it would be.

Red Liner 28th November 2018 16:09

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwin1224 (Post 4502797)

To sum it up, ideal touring motorcycle should be made outta quality components, preferably over-engineered, about 40hp and 35nm kicking in low in the rev range. Off-road friendly suspension with options for both on and off-road tires. Low seat height but tall enough to provide decent GC. Good fuel capacity and wind protection. I am getting carried away with the wishlist so I'll stop here.:D

This stuff don't exist bro. If it does, this thread wouldn't exist and we would all be on that motorcycle whizzing around somewhere.

Actually, it doesn't exist anywhere in the world. Most of the planet is now veering towards middling capacity (45+BHP) under 180kgs wet kind of set up, so I do expect to see a lot more action in the coming years in this segment. Frankly, its a segment ripe for intervention by most Indian manufacturers, what with the manufacturing scales that we possess.

I did ride the baby GS for a very short period, and some how felt it too was a bit under powered for my liking. The 390 power plant brought far more smiles to my face than this one. So I am looking forward to the mythical 390 ADV as well.

The other unfortunate issue is barring the Impulse, we do not have a single good low priced dual sport which is what our country direly needs. No CRF250, no DR350. These are bikes that will make for perfect secondary bikes to explore local trails, offroad, and generally have a hoot around the city. A baby GS even for 3 lakhs I feel is probably a bit too expensive for something like this. I am almost considering a used Impulse purchase, but the Xpulse is not too far off...

...X Pulse looks good, but being completely Hero engineered is not comforting to me. The Impulse was completely Honda derived. How I wish that bike with an FI powerplant was still on sale today! Knock out!

I think many folks will be buying bikes, exploring genres, then selling them and moving onto another genre of bikes. Its a way of exploring what you really want out of your motorcycle in your every day adventure.

Phew, I think I need to see a psychiatrist. Know any good ones who love motorcycles? lol:

AirbusCapt 28th November 2018 16:35

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
The perfect tourer imo is a 600/700 cc bike, with safety features like and. Adjustable suspension, clutch and brake levers, upright, with slight lean riding position and a good winshieod to protect from windblast. I am speaking of the Versys 650, which is the ideal touring bike for India. Bike is big enough for two plus luggage, adequate grunt for highway and the hills, looks good and is extremely reliable. Only gripe is the 17 inch front wheel and dirt, which makes me want to be careful of two up dirt riding.

nasirkaka 28th November 2018 17:39

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
Quote:

This stuff don't exist bro. If it does, this thread wouldn't exist and we would all be on that motorcycle whizzing around somewhere.
Are we debating 'small vs big' TOURING motorcycle? in which case, from the discussions on past few pages, its clear the advantage which middle weight adv tourer like versys 650, v-storm 650, and the likes bring over small displacement bikes.
Or is it about one bike which can multi-task within city as well inter-city or inter-state? If it is the later, then we both have experienced and agree that our versys 650 is not ideal for commuting in Bangalore. And thats where a 300 to 400cc, sub 170kg bike with around 35 bhp & having adventure tourer genes would ideally fit in. Can do city and highway and all in between moderately well. Now to do that, of course there will have to be compromises. You soften the suspension, the handling will get affected, you increase the GC, seating & COG would be affected, tune the engine for touring and track appeal would be affected. Its a fine balance but compromise nonetheless.

Quote:

I did ride the baby GS for a very short period, and some how felt it too was a bit under powered for my liking. The 390 power plant brought far more smiles to my face than this one. So I am looking forward to the mythical 390 ADV as well.
Baby GS is not the fastest, its not a naked street or sports bike with suspension and engine tuned for performance. There is also theory of relativity at play. You rode baby gs after versys 650, obviously it would feel under powered. It may not be as maniac as a 390 duke, but it no slouch either. 0to100 kmph in 7 seconds and a top speed of around 150 is decent for the purpose where suspension travel, riding posture, GC, etc may take priority over speed and acceleration. As a package, i feel it works very well as "one for for all purpose" bike for our Indian conditions.



Quote:

...X Pulse looks good, but being completely Hero engineered is not comforting to me. The Impulse was completely Honda derived. How I wish that bike with an FI powerplant was still on sale today! Knock out!
Xpulse will work as an offroad or trail bike, and also for city commuting but would be boring on the highway. Going by Xtreme reviews and its comparison with others like RTR 160, The new 200cc engine is pretty basic and the bike would struggle on open roads.

KTM 390 adventure is what we have all been waiting for last 5 years. :Frustrati
Seems like Ideal contender for Multi-purpose 'do it all' bike, but the wait is been such that we have given up hope and lost expectations (except you). Will believe only when i see one. Untill then baby GS Zindabad!! :)

roy_libran 28th November 2018 18:26

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
The Baby GS is, in all sincerity, a bit too lazy, to cut it for me for touring. Then the very upright seating kills it even more. Price etc. are secondary. But, to each his own.

nasirkaka 28th November 2018 19:15

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
Quote:

The Baby GS is, in all sincerity, a bit too lazy, to cut it for me for touring. Then the very upright seating kills it even more. Price etc. are secondary. But, to each his own.
Yes, in relation to your current ride which is RC 390, its quick acceleration and the sporty posture, Baby GS will definitely come across as lazy and upright.

When a bike is being designed there are different percentile parameters which are considered, based on what works for the majority for a particular task in a particular market/region. Almost all the touring bikes from various manufacturers will have more or less similar riding geometry as over time, that posture is considered to be most suited for a majority. There would of-course be a few exceptions but what works for most is what becomes thumb-rule standard. The commuter segment riding geometry is also very similar to that of an adventure tourer, hence natural transition. From a unicorn to versys 650, there is not much difference felt in riding geometry but from an avenger to R15, there difference felt is stark.

ac 427 28th November 2018 19:35

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
Not sure about Touring bikes. But i have the following bikes.
Triumph Bonnie T100
Classic 500
Std 350

I use the Bonnie for my bi-annual rides. E.g. Mumbai - Delhi - Mumbai or Mumbai - Rajasthan - Mumbai.
I also use the Bonnie for my Sunday rides.
I use the classic 500 for rides too. But if there is commuting required. She is my commuter bike.
And i use the std 350 tell myself that i still am in love with the odd balls. That i still prefer difficult over easy. That I still prefer the real deal over 'marketing b/s'. That i can differentiate between fakers and the non-fakers.

My two bits about in a thread that probably will never have a closure :)

cheers,
ac

ashwinprakas 28th November 2018 22:24

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheel (Post 4502667)
Depends BP, if I/you or any one else is on ADV or a street bike, there won't be much fatigue issues if you are used to ride long and hard but on a crouched sportsbike, very few riders can remain fresh in a dusk to dawn kind of rides.

This is something I can relate to, it takes gargantuan levels of will power to ride on anything with forward lean.

Almost all riders I've ridden with who prefer to ride sportsbikes have experienced severe fatigue, and the surprising fact is that the mental fatigue is what gets at you first.

I believe there's nothing as scary as konking off amidst riding, not to say that upright motorcycles are immune from this as I've nodded off a few times myself on more than one motorcycle with an upright position, but more than the motorcycle I'd blame myself as once the miles and my years racked up and my planning got better such issues seem to have stopped bothering me for good.

Quote:

That is a Yamaha. We also had a P-220 FI and a RTR 160 FI and both FI units were scrapped because of issues.
Same issues apply for FI'd motorcycles irrespective of brand, motorcycle FI systems aren't as reliable as the ones that come in Car's, period.

Quote:

I was not a fan of its heavy handle, it was a bliss on open highways, but come corners and my limited skills couldn't exploit its shitty handling.
I can imagine guys from the Kerala xBhp chapter seeing this and screaming "BLASPHEMY!"

As we have a CBR rider in his mid thirties who absolutely runs on rails and give bigger motorcycles a run for their money quite often if not all the time.

But then like in the case with any motorcycle, sometimes it fits so well you can't think of another and sometimes anything but the one would do just fine, kinda like the way I feel about my P220, I can't list a thing about the motorcycle that is to be blamed with absolution considering the man-hours put into tweaking it, but for some reason it bores me to death. :deadhorse

As I recall your quote "Different Strokes for Different Folks"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaybiz (Post 4502671)
Do one these endurance runs on bigger bike and I am sure you'll be able to do more with less strain on body, otherwise how me a 47 plus year guy can do a 1250 KM ride in single day.

1300+ is a milestone I've touched only a limited number of times, and if my memory is right once on the ZMA and once on the D100.

This is a quote from one of my early travelogues on the ZMA where I'd clocked 1340+ km's in a day;

Quote:

...we had descended and we were moving through the cramped up village roads in search for directions and that’s when it happened, my eye sight was completely messed up, it felt as though my eyes and brains weren’t connected anymore, it was like I was two different people, one seeing everything happening around and guiding the other one who was riding the bike, it was super confusing, but I decided to pull myself together and ride ahead...
This was just the beginning of my troubles, would love to share the travelogue but I've been warned before by the mods of sharing external content.

The second time was on the Discover 100 4G where we were forced to ride back at a forest check-post and was left without any other option than to ride all the way back, though this time I'd not experienced anything even remotely alarming and completed the ride without much troubles.

Now I could simply for the benefit of my argument say that I have 2 documented case of doing considerable distances on a 223cc motorcycle and on a 98cc motorcycle and had only experienced fatigue on the bigger motorcycle, which incidentally was also done on better interstate highways.

But fact is that at the time of riding the ZMA I was inexperienced and stupid which is what led to the dehydration, disorientation and hallucination.

Which is further proven by how I managed to cover similar distance on the D100 a few years later without much issues.

The point of this is that rider experience is key and though I cannot speak for age as I have a good 21 years to go before being able to speak from your stand points, I'd still say that more than age, riding experience is what determines how safely one hauls ass in Indian conditions.

Reason being I personally know a few riders, some much older than me who've clocked similar numbers on both commuters as well as superbikes(If the N650 is one) and keep doing so at regular intervals which is where the real challenge lies as pulling a one or two off like what I've done can be done by anyone with enough commonsense to get by.

Though I'd consider getting myself a higher displacement motorcycle once we have better circumstances to exploit the same just as I exploit my commuters, I'd still doubt I'd henceforth be interested in endurance runs, as I've had my fill with the earlier mentioned incident on the ZMA and now know better.

Plus it helps to think of the fallen souls who were not as lucky as myself to get away from such carelessness and shoddy planning without serious repercussions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosfactor (Post 4502721)
In Team BHP everyone`s perspective and opinions are respected, You have yours and others have theirs. You opened the thread with an assumption that its not always the machine , sometimes the rider is the problem. Lets be more open and see what happens.

Dear Sir, just to clarify I was not the one who opened/created this thread, as far as my concerns go I'm happy as is.

The idea of this thread was Proposed by Redliner and later Disposed by GTO.

But the reason I'm still replying to opposing views and holding my ground is not to derive a sense of satisfaction of proving my dexterity with the keyboard, but to put my own views out there so that upcoming enthusiasts who're more impressionable than the rest would not fall prey to social notions of owning X many cc's or Y many bhp's to be able to tour the country.

If I myself were to stumble upon such a thread on a reputable forum with no opposing views during my impressionable days then I would've given up motorcycling a long time ago deeming myself to be just not cut out for it.

The whole intent of such an arena where entry is restricted for the mere purpose of quality is so that we get to share our experiences and views for the benefit of the knowledge seeker so that he/she may come to his/her own conclusions and in the process avoid the mistakes we've made or at least try to.

And since I'm all out of words and experiences until memory proves otherwise, I'll move on to the role of a spectator as I am curious to see if there are any fresh perspectives to the matter at hand than the ones we've discussed to ends.

Quote:

A commuter bike is not designed for sustained high speed runs - no one is misinformed here about it, there is no reason for Hero to make splendor fit enough to sustain 100+ for hours on end and so it cannot without significantly eroding its engine life. Oh lets not forget, Tires and Brakes - safety is at risk for sure.
More displacement definitely does help but that doesn't mean you won't be going places without it.

There are a lot of riders who tour on such commuters, one such individual is a close friend, Shubham, who rode down from WB along with his friend to visit me when I was recovering from a motorcycle related injury;

Attachment 1823021

The motorcycle at the time had about 1,16,000+ km's on the odo.

Now I'm not saying that everyone should simply scrap their tourers and get a Platina like Shubham, but I'm just saying that commuting cross country on commuters is not as strange or treacherous and people make it out to be.

It's simply about being comfortable in your own shoes and having fun i.e unless public opinion plays a predominant role in ones life, which again is understandable.

Quote:

You can very well see that a larger displacement engine comes with stronger chassis, Excellent tires, heat management, bigger brakes, ABS, better suspension , a sixth gear and the works, even a change from 150 - to 200 CC gives you a sixth gear, oil cooling, ABS and even better tires etc. Believe me, oil cooler is not there for style the DTSi sticker was perhaps.
True.

Though to add, having merely a 6th gear alone or even a 5th gear won't make much of a difference on the highways, gear ratios matter here, which is why you'll hear Inazuma owners complain about their stock gearing on the highways in spite of being equipped with a 6th gear.

Do not recall the specifics but some 5 speeds one of them being the ZMA has a taller final overdrive than some motorcycles with 6 speed transmissions and since we're talking about highways at this point the final drive ratio matters more than the number of gears.

As for DTSi, that really does make a difference when it comes to FE.

Not so much for the oil cooler at least as far the temperature light goes, as I've run mine with and without one, but yes it is not useless.

Quote:

The classic manufacturers have opened their eyes to the new realities, we have amazing highways now, you yourself talk about GQ - this means the average speeds have gone up and classics now have to be fit enough to be driven fast for hours together. You know that fuel injection and the works are not really modern, its been there for a long time and are reliable, will it survive the apocalypse ? perhaps not, but I think we have bigger issues to worry about.
Understood, period.

Issues are subjective to the situation at hand, there are some highways in different parts of our country where you'd be better of moving at any pace than at no pace at all and that is where a carburetor triumphs over the FI systems seen on motorcycles which are not as robust as the systems everyone's familiar with on their cars, this is not my claim, this is an understood fact around the globe and I'm not going to argue about the same as the topic has been debated to dust and then some more over various forums online.

Though I'd like to share of one such experience we'd had, while crossing Bihar, we'd been warned by locals and enthusiasts alike of particular stretches that we should cross before dark which forced my co-rider to stick to my pace even in spite of his deteriorating health condition at the time.

Attachment 1823018

Because at times its better to bite(or rather ride in his case) the bullet ignoring minor inconveniences for the benefit of staying safe.

And since the issue i.e physical inconvenience was manageable considering the greater good we were able to overcome the obstacle, the same could not be said if it were say a busted fuel injector we'd had to overcome.

Quote:

Touring is a recreational activity, lets have some fun while we are at it - no need to get fatigued and feel saddle sore, choose the right bike or rent them now that we can.
Recreation for some, a way of life for others.

Anyhow all that matters is one approaches the matter with an open mind and goes with what is as per his/her capabilities, because either lane you take personal safety is paramount to everything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gauravanekar (Post 4502737)
However, calling CT100 as an able tourer is overkill, I have a Yamaha saluto 110 for city commutes (with a sidebox). I've taken it in NiCE road 10-15 times and I can tell you it's not even close to being a tourer. Sorry if I'm being harsh but I've to say that

Nothing to be sorry about, because what you've shared makes sense.

The Saluto is a long stroke motor(BS Ratio:0.89) and things can get pretty boring on extended rides, same was the case with the Discover 100 4G(BS Ratio:0.86), though capable it was not as much fun on open highways and in spite of(me!) being a good 40 kg's lighter than I am now I'd dread never ending highways, even though it was my usual choice for about 2 years during my masters when I'd commute roughly 1600 km's to and fro Home on it between, Karnataka and Kerala for extended weekends and holidays.

The CT100B on the other hand is a screamer(BS Ratio:1.18) and can hold its own on the highways at least far beyond my initial expectations and definitely far beyond my riding capabilities.

Cheers,
A.P.

gauravanekar 28th November 2018 23:41

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas (Post 4503083)
The CT100B on the other hand is a screamer(BS Ratio:1.18) and can hold its own on the highways at least far beyond my initial expectations and definitely far beyond my riding capabilities.

After hearing so much about CT100 :Shockked:, I've to ride this bike once to see whats this all about. Have made a mental note. Good night. Sign off.

ethanhunt123 29th November 2018 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas (Post 4503083)

The CT100B on the other hand is a screamer(BS Ratio:1.18) and can hold its own on the highways

please: CT100B is a 100CC, 8PS motorcycle with a manufacturer claimed top speed of 90kmph. If you think it can hold its own on the highways - I have no idea what highways you ride on Sir. But that's definitely not the kind of highways i have experienced in past decade in India where cruising at 120-130 is a walk in the park if you have a decently powerful motorcycle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Liner (Post 4502901)
Actually, it doesn't exist anywhere in the world. Most of the planet is now veering towards middling capacity (45+BHP) under 180kgs wet kind of set up, so I do expect to see a lot more action in the coming years in this segment. Frankly, its a segment ripe for intervention by most Indian manufacturers, what with the manufacturing scales that we possess.

Sorry but any data behind your assumption ? I only see bikes getting more powerful and bigger with every iteration. A top of the line Liter class superbike would have been making 150PS odd about 10 years back - now all of them touch 200PS with the Ducati V4 at a mental 230PS+. Same story with the big ADVs - the R1150GS on which Charly Boorman & Ewan Mcgregor did their Long way round made about 85PS. The latest R1250GS is pushing 135PS+. And then you have the category of mental ADV sports tourers like Multistrada, KTM Super Duke 1290GT & S100XR which do 160PS+

And - Highest selling ADV bikes across the world are not your middle weight 800CC ones - they are the likes of BMW R1200GS & Ducati Multistrada 1260S.

octane1002 29th November 2018 01:24

Re: Big vs Small Touring Bikes
 
CT100B a Screamer?!In what sense?Noisy at (not-so-high)speeds be more like it perhaps?(Feel sorry for the RDs/RXs/KBs/Shoguns that might be turning in their graves on this night.)


That screamer line almost had me believe I was reading a 90s era road test from an Indian Auto mag (no offence).

Seriously, what are we really discussing here?A rider's undying love for a machine in the face of all odds?Or rational choices available in the market today based on the average Joe's touring requirements?


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