[payeng]

Originally Posted by jpcoolguy

Dilution of Discover 125 brand, which was once the 2nd best selling bike behind only Splendour and finally leading to the situation where it is fumbling for volumes now.

Refer to this brilliant post (The Biggest Blunders in the Indian Automotive Scene) by fellow bhpian payeng which explains the numerous variations of the Discover.

Thanks for quoting my post.

BTW as we discuss: KTM 125 Duke ABS launched at Rs 1.18 lakh

Originally Posted by akshay380

Isn't he the same guy who went giving gyan to our Prime Minister? Dude should focus on his job first before free Gyan IMO.

I still remember the interview when he so confidently talked about scooters not having any future.

I am with Mr. Bajaj regarding his comments on Scooters, FOR BAJAJ Scooters logically doesn't seem to have a future. We should remember, People didn't buy the Kristal (Last Scooter from Bajaj).

[ashis89]

Slightly off-topic.

Does anyone have insights into the production and assembly line employed by Bajaj? With this huge number of variants and ever changing production cycles (ramp up or discontinue), it should be a nightmare. Even the vendors should be having a tough time to supply parts even though many of major parts are shared across models.

Another query, do the two-wheelers have to be tested and approved by authorities before they are launched in the market? Also are all the models tested for some X no.of kms before launch? If so how is Bajaj doing so many test runs of the models?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Sebring

Honda Activa changed all that with its smooth transmission, niggle free engine and decent mileage figures. But 'vision' is Bajaj's biggest Achilles heel.

Didn't that happen with Kinetic Honda almost 30 years ago? All the geared scooters lost their market to Kinetic Honda. I had both my dad's lambretta and my Kinetic Honda at home. After getting used to KH, riding the Lambretta felt very unwieldy and unrefined.

Bajaj didn't really need vision, they could see what KH did. I lost touch with scooter market 20 years ago. Did Bajaj try any CVT scooters like KH?

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Bajaj didn't really need vision, they could see what KH did. I lost touch with scooter market 20 years ago. Did Bajaj try any CVT scooters like KH?

They did launch some offerings, last being Kristal or Krystal(pardon the spelling) which was discontinued in 2010.

But these were very poor in quality compared to the likes of Honda.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Bajaj didn't really need vision, they could see what KH did. I lost touch with scooter market 20 years ago. Did Bajaj try any CVT scooters like KH?

They got the Sunny, Krystal and Wave scooters which were CVT. But in between, they brought in Spirit and Saffire which were auto-geared scooters (2 speed and 3-speed GBs) which were very trouble some. The initial adopters were not at all happy and hence the market lost faith in Bajaj scooters.

Meanwhile their bikes sold pretty well and the Pulsar and Discover brands were well received. Instead of working on fixing the reliability issues of their scooter models, Bajaj decided to move away from the scooter market altogether with the assumption that the market didn't have much volumes and bikes were the future. This is where they went wrong.

I remember the Wind 125 and Activa were launched around the same time. The word of mouth was very good for both of them and my dad was slightly more inclined towards the Wind. Even there, Bajaj withdrew that model and kept it for export only as there was strong demand in the overseas market for the model. Later, I got a chance to ride the Wave DTSi scooter. I can't comment on the reliability but it had very good performance for sure.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Did Bajaj try any CVT scooters like KH?

Not only during the Kinetic days, they made half hearted approaches well in the intial Activa days as well. Bajaj Krystal DTSi and Bajaj Wave DTSi were few of the last one I can remember.

But they responded too late, and wasn't even very committed in their approach!

[gururajrv]

Bajaj was being dynamic by introducing models. But dynamism translated to utter foolishness with variety of products. Rajiv is a good entrepreneur. But his way of approach needs to be revisited. His recent approach with Dominar is a classic example. He was over confident with Dominar killing the sales of RE. But it happened the other way around with his promotion and advertisement strategy going all against their own product.

His products with discover with variety of engines was more or less like Pepsi selling their products in various bottle sizes to attract price sensitive customers. Hope he revisits his entire strategy and fix it. Pulsars were the best till date from his stable. I’m not really a fan of their newer gen pulsars sharing engines with KTM. They lack the grunt which the initial DTSI engines had. Anyways wishing good luck to Rajiv.

[ashwinprakas]

One mans rubbish, another mans treasure chest!

An extract about my stride with the Bajaj Discover 100 4G from one of my blog entries;

The Discovery Phase

Now came along the second ride, the Discover 100 DTSi, man the D100 was something! This was again gifted to me by dad in 2013 as I needed something to ride in Bangalore for my 2 year tenure. Got and registered it from my hometown i.e Kollam.

The initial intention was to get the motorcycle to Karnataka and keep it there, but something happened in between and instead of parcelling my ride off to Bangalore I rode it there for the whole 750kms alone, being my first solo out of the state trip I was cautious and careful, maintained a decent 50~60kmph, but after 650kms and somewhere between Dharmapuri and Krishnagiri, I was exhausted and completely out of steam, this was after 15 hours on the saddle, that was my defining moment, at a roadside coffee shop sipping on some coffee and smoking a cigarette almost at the brink of tears, contemplating whether I should leave the motorcycle there and get on a bus and come back for it later or whether I should hire a truck and get it transported to Bangalore, I got into a trance where I was talking to myself;

“Is this all you’ve got? This moment would determine every single decision you take for the rest of your life, are you going to walk the talk or are you going to choose the easy way out, like always?”

And that was it, the decision was made and I reached my hostel at Bangalore in the next 2 hours riding the D100 with the throttle pinned at WOT most of the way.

Now you may feel that I was a tad too dramatic, but I assure you 100% NOT! Why do I say so? Cause you were not there at that moment in my shoes.

The last 100kms of that ride changed something in me for the good.

Though its been a few years and the motorcycle was not a keeper from a materialistic stand point, it still holds a precious spot in my memories and life, the motorcycle that taught me the true spirit of motorcycling.

Sorry guys for the lack of punctuation/spacing in the quoted post, this was written years before I became a part of Team-Bhp fraternity and got accustomed to higher writing standards.

[condor]

Rajiv Bajaj may say that the D100 was the worst mistake there. But there would be others too. A more recent one looks to be the way they are working with their service dealers.

I happened to pass by the Bajaj A.S.S that I used to go to long time back. I saw the owner standing there, so I went up to him and introduced myself. He remembered my late father, and as we chatted a bit, that smile in his eyes was something


He said that the company is changing the terms & conditions and it is becoming more difficult to continue as a Bajaj ASS. (I didnt ask further). He said that he is getting his boys trained on Honda two wheelers.

On the flip side, I now have a place to take my recently purchased Activa for servicing.

Btw, the mechanic who used to take care of my bike 18-20 years back, is still there ! Couldnt meet him, but will do so soon, when I go for servicing.

[landcruiser123]

Bajaj seems adamant not to come into the scooter market. I think the Discover did fairly well for itself. And I, having owned one, actually like the product. Bajaj should have worked on it to make it more maintenance free.

Originally Posted by Chethan B G

I always thought that it was the quality that made the difference.

Originally Posted by GTO

...I remember beloved Moderator Rtech telling me about his Pulsar "great bike, well priced, fun, but wears out too soon".

Personal experience: My Discover 100T (2014-17.) It was a great bike- good design, performance, 5-speed transmission in a 100cc with 10HP. I sold it at 15k km. It didn't have the 'almost new bike' feeling that my friends HH Passion had with 40k km in 7 years. The HH Passion was actually tighter (in terms of tolerances) and smooth compared to my Discover.

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Personal experience: My Discover 100T (2014-17.) It was a great bike- good design, performance, 5-speed transmission in a 100cc with 10HP. I sold it at 15k km. It didn't have the 'almost new bike' feeling that my friends HH Passion had with 40k km in 7 years. The HH Passion was actually tighter (in terms of tolerances) and smooth compared to my Discover.

Originally Posted by GTO

And this has always been a problem? I remember beloved Moderator Rtech telling me about his Pulsar "great bike, well priced, fun, but wears out too soon".

I agree with the posts mentioned above. I was among the lot who bought the first Generation Pulsars, the Classic, as it came to be known in the biking circles then. It was a 150cc, and in those days, it was a celebrity on the roads.

Based in Hyderabad then, I used to have many people chatting me up wherever I went with the bike - be it at traffic lights, mall parking lots, drags when taking off from the lights.. basically anywhere people could identify me as being the owner. Once while on a roadtrip with my friend on a Hero Honda CBZ, I was flagged down by the cops for a routine check. The cops were so enamoured by the bike that they spent quite some time checking it out, and one even requested the chance to ride it a bit and take it on a spin. That was the allure the Pulsar brand had built upon its launch. However, the initial euphoria was short-lived.

Soon enough the DTSi Pulsars were launched, and the hysteria transferred across to it, while the classic began to show slight hints of issues. Not engine related, but overall quality of parts in general. Frequently failing tail lamps and indicators, fiddly indicator extensions which broke with small impacts, and the like. These wouldn't have been so much of an issue if not for the logical comparison with the CBZ, owned by my friend.

The CBZ felt so much more refined, despite the age, while the Pulsar felt like a 'tractor', to quote my friend. Parts quality too was much better, and the trend continued as it aged.

That said, the Pulsar created immense interest in the segment which saw limited success with the CBZ taking the FE battle to its doors, and coming out triumphant. If only the quality stayed consistent.

[ksameer1234]

I am not sure if Rajiv Bajaj needs to be so critical of himself and the decision to launch 100cc Discover. He can however say that launching and discontinuing innumerable variants of Discover was the biggest mistake of his career. And he doesn't even need to look at other brands for inspiration.

Just look at Pulsar brand, specifically the 150cc and 220f. These two have managed to perform strongly even after so many years for the simple reason that people are familiar with these bikes and seeing them over the years has built confidence in the brand. Pulsar brand survived even after being meted the Discover treatment (NS, RS, AS in 150cc, 160cc, 200cc variant coming in and going out) just because of the legacy.

All that Bajaj needs to do is keep just three variants of Discover; 100cc, 125cc and 150cc. And please let them sell without changing variants every year. Hiring the guy who gave Rajiv the suggestion of launching a variant every six months was the biggest mistake.

[Sebring]

By any chance are you referring to AutoAssembly in Hanumanthnagar? I have such conversations with the owner there. The mechanic was Suresh!

Originally Posted by condor

I saw the owner standing there, so I went up to him and introduced myself. Btw, the mechanic who used to take care of my bike 18-20 years back, is still there !

[Gansan]

Bajaj,Ideal Jawa and RE had legacy products which had made a name for themselves. RE successfully persevered, flogged and developed their Bullet. It also helped it was already a 4 stroke product. Jawa closed down because two strokes were totally banned, and they had no answer to that. Chetak used to sell excellently because it was actually a Vespa and the perception of quality attached to that. I had heard many uncles say they had arrived by Vespa, when they actually meant the Chetak. Somewhat like old timers referring to TATA trucks as Benz. Bajaj had the money muscle, they should have imported technology and kept the Chetak flag flying. They did bring out a 4 stroke Chetak, but it was lame. They should have brought out a completely new, gearless product from ground up, retaining only the name. Because by that time the Kinetic Hondas were selling well, people realized their practicality. But Kinetic too fell to the two stroke restriction, and Honda decided to go alone, denying them technology. People will buy half a Honda for double the money, but not a full Kinetic even at half the price!

When HMSIL debuted with the Activa, I remember reading an interview with a Jap executive in the IAJ. He was asked why they came out with it as their first product when the market had moved away from scooters and even the largest manufacturer Bajaj had exited. He said there was a huge latent demand for scooters in India, the market just needed a product that was well made and well packaged. How prophetic he was!

None of the old school companies had very good QC, and none of the offerings were what one would call extremely reliable. It was a question of mine not being as bad as yours! Even the quality of Kawasaki bikes brought out by Bajaj was iffy at best. Which was not the case with the other three, even though they too were collaborations. Now that Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki have their own offerings, the quality and reliability are excellent and people don't hesitate to choose their products. If I had to choose a product not made by one of them, I would unhesitatingly choose TVS.

Bajaj products do not age well. A two year old Bajaj offering will look and feel like a ten year old Honda or Yamaha, and will be less reliable than them too. What sells in the commuter market is the "fill it, shut it, forget it" kind. Products need not be jazzy for me, they need to be dependable, should not have too many variants to confuse me. And hold decent resale value when I decide to exchange it. My 18 year old Splendor has let me down maybe three or four times in the entire period. It is really well made, well maintained and still feels taut to ride. The fuel gauge is fairly accurate and has not stopped working even once in all these years, while that of my Alto conked out in four years and had to be replaced.

We can generally go to the spare parts shop and buy a spare for two wheelers, but not for Bajaj. One will have to dismantle the part and take it to the shop to get an exact match. There are so many variants.

[condor]

Originally Posted by Sebring

By any chance are you referring to AutoAssembly in Hanumanthnagar? I have such conversations with the owner there. The mechanic was Suresh!

My mechanic was Giridhar :-) Whenever I used to take my bike, typically Suresh or the other guys would shout to Giridhar that "Hey Giri, your bike is here !"

Originally Posted by Gansan

Even the quality of Kawasaki bikes brought out by Bajaj was iffy at best.

Not necessarily. The Kawasaki products were good. The KB100's - 3 in the family. I am keeping an eye out for one, if I can find a decent one that I can use around the house. And the Caliber-115. A friend still rides the Caliber daily, and he has no plans to give it up.