[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Sheel

@ashwin - You have posted videos where the rider on the scooter is *SUPERIOR* and not the scooter.

I doubt it would be possible to make a hard and fast conclusion that it is the rider alone because if you compare active speeds you'd see that the 390 does push harder but drops with the same intensity whereas the Scooter is able to maintain average speeds.

Which if were to happen on identical vehicles could be credited to the rider but I doubt the same rules would apply on different type of vehicles, unless more variables are accounted for.

Plus, this was the only video I could find, with the exception of this;

CBR 1000 vs 125cc SCOOTER ! Racing on a track

Where a 125cc under-bone can be seen giving liter class machines a run for their money, in spite of the liter class machines having a superior straight line advantage.

Now you could still say that the rider riding the under-bone was superior and not his machine but then we can't really conclude, can we?

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Now you could still say that the rider riding the under-bone was superior and not his machine but then we can't really conclude, can we?

Don't know about you mate, but I can .

[roy_libran]

Most threads on the Motorbikes forum, nowadays, have a weird habit of transforming into a Small Bike vs. everything else!

@Hitanshu - I hope you have by now uncovered the myriad reasons why you may have had this unfortunate fall and I am sure you must have analysed and identified the exact cupric by now. Pray, share that with the forum, and salvage your thread.

[octane1002]

Originally Posted by roy_libran

Most threads on the Motorbikes forum, nowadays, have a weird habit of transforming into a Small Bike vs. everything else!

@Hitanshu - I hope you have by now uncovered the myriad reasons why you may have had this unfortunate fall and I am sure you must have analysed and identified the exact cupric by now. Pray, share that with the forum, and salvage your thread.

Very true. Dreading that soon-to-come post detailing 1000 km GQ travel/Ladakh soujourn on an Activa without any sort of fatigue/fall.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Sheel

Don't know about you mate, but I can .

Then you Sir are at peace.

Originally Posted by roy_libran

Most threads on the Motorbikes forum, nowadays, have a weird habit of transforming into a Small Bike vs. everything else!

Not sure about other threads, but in the case of this one I believe it was quite obvious, starting from the title.

A bit of reading and observation would be able to clear things up super quick but us being us, some emotion would seep in and prolong even the simplest of debates.

[sagarpadaki]

My experience with using a few rental scooters is that most of them run way high tyre pressures than what is recommended. This is a disaster waiting to happen, especially on two wheeler. Last year, when i rented a Vespa in Pondy, I checked the tyre pressure with the gauge that i usually keep in my car . The readings were 35 at Front 45 at rear. Not to mention the scooter had worn out some shady brand tyres. I immediately reduced the pressure to 26F and 32R before i took it out for the spin.

Tyre pressure plays a major role in the handling characteristics of a scooter. With high tyre pressure, the margin of error in less when you encounter wetness/oil/gravel on the road. It is surprising how even a small amount of sand/wetness/oil can cause rapid loss of handling with high tyre pressures.

As a precaution, always ensure that you set the right pressure before you take the rental two wheeler for a spin.

[adrian]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

125cc under-bone can be seen giving liter class machines a run for their money, in spite of the liter class machines having a superior straight line advantage.

Posting this assuming that the 125 cc scooter is an automatic. Would like to see the result if the scooter had 6 gears and a clutch.

[IshaanIan]

Here are my 2 cents:

I believe that 50kms of usage is not enough to thoroughly familiarize oneself with another vehicle simply because there are 2 types of things that become apparent to us when familiarizing ourselves with a vehicle. The first which everyone notices and is the most apparent, is the power, throttle response and ride quality. These characteristics are what instantly stand out since they are apparent regardless of how the machine is being ridden/driven. The mistake I feel we all make, is to fully understand these characteristics of a machine and then fool ourselves into thinking that we have mastered it enough. However, as Ashwinprakas has pointed out, center of gravity, and the manner in which the vehicle's weight moves around, is what is most important when it comes to mastering riding/driving a new vehicle. These constitute the second less apparent type of characteristics that definitely will take more time to master. They are less immediately apparent but far more crucial when it comes to one wanting to ride a new vehicle in as bindass a manner as possible. Hope people are able to make sense of what I am trying to say here.

For example, a less experienced rider like me, finds it difficult to ride even a Duke 200 when coming from my RC390 as while the bike is so much easier to steer, lighter, more refined, less powerful etcetera, I still know that because of the weight distribution and different tyres, it behaves differently in corners and just that makes me want to take more time to get used to it. So I can only imagine how drastically different an Activa must be from a CBR250

What is key over here is understanding how much less evident the second set of characteristics (centre of gravity, weight distribution) is when compared to the first immediately apparent set of characteristics (ride quality, throttle response and power). We need to remind ourselves of that and ask ourselves twice whether we are familiar enough with both sets of characteristics before navigating a downward sloping right hander at anything more than uncool speeds

[kozhissery]

From the explanation I feel that it has nothing to do with driving experience. My bet goes for loss of traction which could be due to oil+water. Couple of years back I had a same kind of fall, luckily scooter toppled I could jump before the fall (or may be was thrown out). The road in front of my house was being upgraded by the corporation and it was dug-up and then filled with clayish soil and roadrolled with water. This left a slime like slippery/glassy film (i think this seeped out when it was road-rolled). This was done in the night and in the morning as usual left home in Activa to gym and in the small turning the scooter just slipped and literally went under by legs and i was left standing. I did not know what happened and on looking saw a couple of others too had the same fate (even bikes too) after which the road was closed for sometime and put sand over it.

After reading the post, i think the lean angle at the turning made the activa to lose traction which would have happend for other bikes too.

[vivek95]

Sorry to hear about your fall but glad to know you and your son are safe

The answer to the title of this thread is - "obviously" Yes !! A bigger bike with better brakes, bigger wheels and wider tyres is obviously going to be much safer than Dios/Activas etc. What I am surprised to see is that, this thread has already run into four pages by now and I am adding one more ( let me not point at only others ). With due respects to everyone here, I feel we team bhpians at times tend to overthink and overanalyze many things, add technicality to everything ( which is definitely not bad at all, I have respect to all the technical experts here ) -- but things that are otherwise so simple and straightforward in life to understand, learn and move on, why so much over analysis ?? Anyways, to each his own.


Moderators can delete my post if found inappropriate. I am just voicing out my opinion and intend no offence to anyone .

[Gildarts]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

I wanted to know what are the learnings / experiences that others have had - so that we can evolve a common understanding of how to ride lower powered two wheelers which aren't as stable. There has to be a better way than "Ride at 10 kph!"

I think it is just a matter of getting used to the sharper steering on these scooters. Since scooters have less rake, they are too sharp and unstable in turns. I really hate small scooters like scooty for this reason. I occasionally ride my dad's Suzuki Access, which is comparatively better, but the 1st few turns always make me nervous. Only a slight input at low speed makes it turn sharply towards the kerb and I straighten it mid turn.
You probably turned in sharply and the front tyre lost its grip. May be there was some loose sand on the tarmac and the combination did you in.
Riders who usually ride motorcycles have to take care that scooters offer much sharper turn ins, it is not linear as in big bikes.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by adrian

Posting this assuming that the 125 cc scooter is an automatic. Would like to see the result if the scooter had 6 gears and a clutch.

Oh No, these were under-bones from Honda that came with a 4 speed transmission, auto-clutch though.

In that respect Mik's Monster has the advantage, because on a Gymkhana track he'd not require the need to shift above 1st gear at all.

Google search returned an old video of his run while the monster was still stock;

2013 06 16 XW TopRide Gymkhana - Mik Stockden - Monster 795

There were plenty of videos on FB of his as well as other riders, some on Under-bones riding the same track which would've settled doubts for good, but they seem to not be on YouTube.

[xander]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

The reason for the crash IMHO is due to the OP disturbing the CG of the motorcycle by shifting into the corner which is ideally what a motorcyclist whose used to riding a front heavy motorcycle does.

This takes the CG of the motorcycle farther away from the wheels resulting in a washout.

On a scooter rather than leaning into the corner i.e shifting weight inward, you should counter-lean shifting weight to the outside which pushes the motorcycle down keeping the CG low down.

Cheers,
A.P.

I was about to type the same after reading the opening post. You beat me to it. The leaning technique is quite opposite on scooters and sport bikes.

[hema4saran]

It makes me over cautious whenever I drive my sister's Activa or Father in law's Wego because of the small wheels and brakes. If I am in my Discover or other's motorcycles above 125CC, I will be happy to cruise at 60 and will push to 70s 80s if the road is free. I will not cross 40 in Activa/Wego and have a fear on back of my head.

[condor]

I am inclined to believe the point about muscle memory. You are used to heavier vehicles, and are also so well versed with manoeuvres for the turn. Though at a conscious level you are driving the lighter vehicle, for such turns, one does it a lot from the sub-conscious level, and you would have applied the same pressure on the vehicle / did a weight shift like you were riding the bike - which would have been a little too much for this scooter. And voila - the scooter has kissed the tarmac.