[Thermodynamics]

You made me nostalgic of my falls
Of the several falls I survived in my 20+ years of riding, one of them has a striking similarity to yours. I was used to drive Apache without a pillion. On that fateful day, I had to ride a scooty with a pillion. An inclined right turn, the scooter lost traction, we fell, scooter shoots out like sling shot.

I still ponder what went wrong. May be there was oil, water, grit. May be I was hitting the corner hard like Apache, I guess my brain was programmed to it. May be it is a combination of everything, the inclination, reduced surface traction, mis-judgement of changes in Gyroscopic stability caused by smaller wheels, CG, and pillion rider.

On a lighter side, I also wonder, I had fallen 4 times with a pillion rider and every time the pillion escaped unhurt. Well, "they fell over me"

[srishiva]

I drive scooters with fear. I never go fast and am extremely careful at turns. Since I regularly see some scooter drivers bending along traffic (mostly Dio ), it might be the lack of skill. You can manoeuvre bikes with your body balance and not so much in scooters, atleast for people used to driving bikes.

[FrodoOfTheShire]

Wow! Never thought riding an inoffensive, boring and seemingly harmless, gearless scooter would be so hard and such hotly debated!

I've been riding gearless scooters starting with the Scooty, Activa, Access and Activa i, for the last 15 years. The 1st gen Activa was bought by my father who now rides the 2nd gen Access. Activa i is owned by my wife. I mostly ride motorcycles, Honda Stunner, Pulsar 135 and now Gixxer. I have no problem whatsoever interchanging between the Gixxer and Activa i at any time. Ofcourse I am not a hardcore motorcyclist and have never ridden powerful superbikes.

Recently a friend (who owns a motorcycle) visited home and took a ride in the Activa i. Turns out that he had never ridden a gearless scooter before and couldn't ride the Activa i even for 100m! He couldn't find the right balance and complained about the smaller wheels. I was astonished and kept wondering how could someone not be able to ride a gearless scooter! But I guess I was wrong in my belief and these do cause difficulty for people, something I may never experience.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by condor

I am inclined to believe the point about muscle memory. You are used to heavier vehicles, and are also so well versed with manoeuvres for the turn.

Just to add, I'd like to point out that modern machines are built with the convenience of the user in mind and are very much forgiving.

But on a rudimentary machine you're expected to use your facilities to be on top of the machine figuratively and practically to literally stay alive, as someone has already mentioned you slack, you die.

It's as simple as that.

[//HB]

As a scooter rider 20+ years and lakhs of km's, all with a balance of crowded local streets as well as open WOT highway runs (and many instances of personal contact with the roads ) here's my take:

Originally Posted by phamilyman

My issue is that I don't really know how I fell. And that's disconcerting.

I agree, it is still disconcerting when the scooter just slips out from under you, leaving you to figure out why.

Originally Posted by octane1002

Also, I felt that the Activa (most scooterettes) do not have neutral balance.

Yes definitely this factor is always at play; there are many instances when I take wide 90-degree turns at 50 - 60kmh, but then again many many times this machine springs a surprise on me at the slightest change of line at even 20kmh !

Originally Posted by Rehaan

All of this sounds to me like there was probably oil on the road...

Believe me, without any fluid on the road etc., even the slightest of uneven road surface (stuff that you normally wouldn't even bother to think about) can throw the scooter around and make it lose it's line.

Originally Posted by ilangop

I would blame the leading swing arm front suspension to have caused the fall. We had a Kinetic Honda for about 4 years. As long as you take a turn on a proper road or cemented surface things go fine. The flip side of this suspension is that if the tyre rides over a pebble (even as big as a 1 Re coin) while taking a turn, instead of the tyre compressing the spring the tyre simply tries to slide outwards rolling over the pebble.

Absolutely true.

Originally Posted by abhijeet080808

there was an Activa riding ahead. The speed was less than 10 kmph. Once the rear wheel of the Activa hit the pothole, it just spun out of control- CVT equipped scooter engines do this. They pass more torque to the rear wheel once they sense the wheel slipping and thus magnify the problem.

Yes they do, without a doubt. I'm not a technical guy, my guess is that as soon as the resistance / load on the wheel is reduced the sudden acceleration kind of feel steps in .... to get this in perspective, imagine your vehicle hoisted from behind and rear wheel kept in the air, then rev it up and suddenly drop the vehicle to the road ...

Originally Posted by Rehaan

Maybe next time don't press the 'clutch' and try to downshift before a corner on an Activa

- this was my feel as i rode the Activa out of the dealer's delivery shed (after years of geared scooters)

Bottom line is: these scooters offer a decent blend of practicality and UNBEATABLE advantage of a strain-free left hand on the daily commutes, you just have to be a little alert for the quirky handling, and if it does throw you off, smile and get back up and ride !

[katoom]

I consider myself pretty proficient and skilled in motorcycle riding and whenever I go home, I ride my dad's Access.
Contrary to what you think, I have had lot of fun riding it, at times, pushing the limits a bit in off roads too!
But, yeah, I do understand the boundary of recklessness and lack of safety features. Within that, just gas it out

[jinojohnt]

I know, I changed to a smaller car for my daily ride - I can say you suddenly become a more dangerous driver because you are used to the high speed stability/braking manners of the bigger vehicle, and you unknowingly go at the same speed in the smaller/'less capable' vehicle.

[deepfreak15]

My dad rode an RE Bullet 350 from 1986 till 2017. Age caught up with him and someone told him riding an Activa was like sitting on a sofa. He sold the bike for a princely sum and bought an Activa. He used it for a grand total of 6 months and fell down thrice in that period. Needless to say he disposed it and bought an RE Classic 500 and rides it every single day. I guess switching between motorcycles and scooters is not for everyone!

[rohan_iitr]

I was also in the Andamans last week, so I can totally relate to the situation.

One thing that I observed was that the early morning dew was very heavy. Everything that was outdoors was wet in the morning (parked cars, roads etc).

I feel that the Activa could have slipped because of a combination of heavy dew and over inflated tyres. Oil/sand spill could also have been the reason.

I have an Activa-i, which I use for running errands. I have also driven my BIL's Activa 3G. I never found them to be scary. I used to ride a Yamaha RXZ before I bought the Activa-i. In fact, in my experience, I find the Activa-i to be more confidence inspiring on the corners because of the grippy Zappers and low GC.

But, like everyone has said, a scooter needs to be driven like one. It can't be compared to a modern high capacity bike.

Rohan

[AirbusCapt]

Scooters like the Activa are inheritly less stable than a motorcycle. The smaller wheel size and skinny rubber is the culprit. If we try to lean over a scooter like a bike, we will find it tipping over very early, that catches quite a few riders by surprise. Also the center of gravity of a rider over a scooter is much higher than on a bike, that's why the instability during cornering.

[phamilyman]

Friends,

Just an update to this thread basis my latest trip to Chanshal

The issue is NOT that I was consciously pushing it - let me be super clear - I was paranoid as paranoid can be.

Last Saturday, I rode on my first ride beyond 50 km after almost 16 months of neurological issues due to carpal tunnel. This ride was to the hellish Chanshal pass. Good roads, tight curves, tight curves with gravel - no issue, I blitzed through it at excellent speeds.

I took to it like a fish to water with no re-learning courtesy muscle memory

Hence, I have now realized that my question was pointless / unsolvable in my context because riding is NOT a conscious decision - especially in risky or unsafe situations, we make instantaneous decisions basis muscle memory.

Having ridden all these years, I have a deep muscle memory that has only gotten more aggressive in riding style as I have gotten more experienced with better bikes.

I do not use an Activa even in Gurgaon so I have no muscle memory for it at all. Maybe if I owned such a vehicle here, I would have been more unconsciously cautious

I already barely ride my motorbike for <2k km in a year so it makes no point to invest in another Activa just for more confidence in the once in three year vacation where I may need such a skill.

I will simply pay extra and hire a car in such places in the future.

Originally Posted by rohan_iitr

I was also in the Andamans last week, so I can totally relate to the situation.

One thing that I observed was that the early morning dew was very heavy. Everything that was outdoors was wet in the morning (parked cars, roads etc)

But, like everyone has said, a scooter needs to be driven like one. It can't be compared to a modern high capacity bike.

Rohan

What do others think?