[mkovuri]

After looking at several bikes (Apache RR310, Suzuki, Ninja 300) and taking test rides, I have boiled down my choice to either Yamaha R15 V3 ABS or Honda CBR250R. I am unable to decide between the two. There are things I like a lot in both and don't. Price difference could decide if I put everything equal, but unable to level them for now. The big points 'for me' are:


Yamaha R15 V3 ABS

1. Unbelievably good. Gives me greatest fun. By first hand experience I now understood the common quote (incidentally I rode a 110 BHP Kawasaki Z800 today), "it is more fun to ride hard a smaller engine than ride a bigger engine at low revs". This factor alone is a very very overwhelming factor for me in favor of the R15 (the very reason I ride a bike after all is for fun, not just transporting me).

2. Only issue is feet reach well on level ground, but if I had a situation when my foot may have to be at lower level (pot hole, roadside curb difference, or going up or down a steep ramp and situations that demand putting one foot down etc.), I am not sure if I can manage to not drop the bike even understanding it is a light weight bike.


Honda CBR250R ABS

1. Despite being a bigger and heavier bike, due to low saddle height, I can put my foot firmly on ground and could confidently do stop and go on steep ramps. It is easy to manage in heavy traffic as well and driving through short spaces between competing vehicles.

2. Couldn't feel the additional power for city test rides up to 70 kmph during the test, while in the same patch with comparable traffic I could easily get 80 kmph on the R15. Nevertheless I was convinced its high speeds could surely be better than the R15. And also I am convinced the intercity long rides will be much softer and less tiring. This is not necessarily due to the upright seating posture (aggressive posture never bothered me on my CGT long rides), but due to its relatively soft rear shock absorber.

3. While both were beautiful to look at, I would give a slight plus to CBR, perhaps due to its bright color (I might go for red or yellow) vs Yamaha's racing blue, when watched 'from a distance'.

4. No equivalent of slide protector or skid plate or built in USB port/Mobile stand accessory in the CBR. The slide protector of all the above, seems very important so as to not damage these light Japanese fibre fairings.

5. While Yamaha could also be a very reliable machine, I seem to have a soft corner for Honda on reliability alone. Interestingly the two visits that I had for 'each of' (total 4 dealerships) Yamaha and Honda dealerships convinced me although the sample size is not large, that Honda dealerships were surely better organized AND customer focused than the Yamaha. Latter appeared 'a little careless' for prospective customers.

Inconclusive Conclusion: The additional ₹50k or so could be considered as financial saving if I were to go for R15; plus the savings of better mileage. But I want to consider this factor only if all other factors were equal. But I am unable to primarily decide between 'Fun' vs ' (a) relative assurance of not dropping the bike in uneven patches, and (b) comfort during long rides'. Both these factors are very important for me. Not that I will never drop the low seat height CBR250R nor that I will surely drop the R15. But the confidence during the ride will surely be different. And fun IS a big factor for me. And there is no second thinking that the R15 was way more exciting, while the CBR was elegant!


In the meantime, my CGT will be gone tomorrow morning to be picked up by its new owner (my cousin).

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by mkovuri

...And fun IS a big factor for me. And there is no second thinking that the R15 was way more exciting, while the CBR was elegant!....

I have owned both in the past - first the R15 and then the CBR250, and echo your experiences. I would advice that you go for the R15 given that you are buying this primarily to have fun on the bike, to enjoy the sporty nature of the bike.

I love both the bikes for what they offer (except that CBR250 is a little pricey compared to competition but that is immaterial in the long run).

CBR250 - for all my intercity rides where I intend to cover long distances, have moments of fun with corners and stretches, and feel less tired comparatively.

R15 - for highway rides of upto 200Kms and have lots and lots of fun in every corner and every stretch. The bike is more tiring and hence the limited run of around 200Kms or so (again a personal decision/limit).

In your case, it should be the R15.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by mkovuri

"it is more fun to ride hard a smaller engine than ride a bigger engine at low revs"

I tour interstate on a Bajaj CT100B when I own a tour prepped(by Sahyadri, Mumbai) Bajaj Pulsar 220F, so yeah, I get you 100% on that.

If it ain't fun then it ain't worth wasting your life on, unless there are deeper insecurities that need covering up.

Only issue is feet reach well on level ground, but if I had a situation when my foot may have to be at lower level (pot hole, roadside curb difference, or going up or down a steep ramp and situations that demand putting one foot down etc.), I am not sure if I can manage to not drop the bike even understanding it is a light weight bike.

I don't see this to be an issue unique to your height, as when given a challenging situation as mentioned above irrespective of height one just drops the motorcycle.

A couple of means by which I've managed to not drop the motorcycle are;

1. Slip that clutch:
On some motorcycles such as the CBR250R and NS200, the low end performance is pathetic to say the least, on such motorcycles when you loose momentum when climbing an incline you'd be in a pickle, to counter this you'd need to build more revs and for that to happen you'd need to burn some clutch, as long as you have usable torque backing you up you'd be all right.

2. Work the transmission:
The feel of engine braking is the exact same as the feel of cracking open the throttle, meaning when you downshift you'd feel the tug of engine braking, if it is not strong enough keep dropping gears until you land a gear where engine braking is firm enough because when you crack open the throttle you'd get back that exact same firmness in acceleration.

Reason for saying this is I've seen riders make this mistake of not learning to properly work the tranny, they simply downshift when it knocks and in tight situations that would simply end up with them under the motorcycle.

3. Counter lock and hop:
This is literally the last resort, you've lost momentum and you know your legs is not going to reach the ground, counter steer and lock the handlebar towards the side of the leg you have extended and lock it(the handlebar not your leg), now with your knees slightly bent when your foot touches the ground, push hard and hop, once the motorcycle is momentarily up you could either power out if you had been building revs or hop until you regain composure i.e move up or down or if nothing then hop until your buddies come to your rescue, this also gives you enough time to properly drop your motorcycle i.e with your leg away from the underside of the motorcycle.

Sounds funny, but works.

Couldn't feel the additional power for city test rides up to 70 kmph during the test, while in the same patch with comparable traffic I could easily get 80 kmph on the R15.

Sshhh! They'll think you're crazy! I have personal experience!

Jokes apart, what you've experienced is due to the stroke ratio of both motorcycles, for all practical applications the R15 has a stronger mid end than the CBR250R which on the other hand needs to be worked up to get going.

Now from going through your post I really think you've already made up the choice for what motorcycle to go for and are just giving last minute comparisons a shot to ensure there are no regrets down the line.

So for what its worth, go with the motorcycle that gets you excited, anything else is simply not worth the effort.

Cheers and Ride Safe.

[mkovuri]

Originally Posted by sunilch

I have owned both in the past - first the R15 and then the CBR250, and echo your experiences. I would advice that you go for the R15 given that you are buying this primarily to have fun on the bike, to enjoy the sporty nature of the bike.....In your case, it should be the R15.

Thank you, seems like a good advice!

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

I tour interstate on a Bajaj CT100B when I own a tour prepped(by Sahyadri, Mumbai) Bajaj Pulsar 220F, so yeah, I get you 100% on that.
……..
3. Counter lock and hop:
This is literally the last resort, you've lost momentum and you know your legs is not going to reach the ground, counter steer and lock the handlebar towards the side of the leg you have extended and lock it......Sounds funny, but works.

Sshhh! They'll think you're crazy! I have personal experience!

Jokes apart, what you've experienced is due to the stroke ratio of both motorcycles, for all practical applications the R15 has a stronger mid end than the CBR250R which on the other hand needs to be worked up to get going.

Now from going through your post I really think you've already made up the choice for what motorcycle to go for and are just giving last minute comparisons a shot to ensure there are no regrets down the line.

So for what its worth, go with the motorcycle that gets you excited, anything else is simply not worth the effort.

Cheers and Ride Safe.

Thanks for the detailed response. And I didn't know about the lock and hop technique.

Nope! I have not made up my mind. It's going back and forth very firmly every hour. With some additional experience at Yamaha dealerships today trying to get a second test-ride, I was noticing customer service is a bigger issue with these dealers. I was stranded on the road with the engine not starting (suspect low fuel in tank), and it took ages for the sales guy to come and pick me up. No apology either!! While I couldn't take the test ride for the bike I was interested in at Honda facility today, the reception was positive yet again. Also, the CBR250R seems to have better road presence especially due to the bright color.

I will take one test ride each again and decide.

It was great interacting with some of you! Very valuable experience sharing indeed.

[kailashnj]

Originally Posted by mkovuri

Thank you, seems like a good advice!

I had 2 CBR 250R and currently own a Yamaha R3.

Trust me when it comes to Service, Honda beats yamaha hands down.

Honda does give the CBR owners better service feel with dedicated areas too in their service centres.

But to tell you, I think CBR is the best touring vehicle period. I have done Mumbai Bangalore in 11 hrs on a CBR and that too without any fatique and next day I did the same road again. (Sat to Sun Mum - Bang)

But frankly - I think Honda CBR 250R has been too long and needs an update which honda is not bringing it on. But yes CB300R should be a good bike too.

You should try that bike.

[mkovuri]

Originally Posted by kailashnj

I had 2 CBR 250R and currently own a Yamaha R3.

........ done Mumbai Bangalore in 11 hrs on a CBR and that too without any fatique and next day I did the same road again......
You should try that bike.

Wow! That’s incredible, appreciating nevertheless not all will be able to do that kind of ride.

And that’s exactly the dilemma. I predict half of my rides could be long. But you never know. I couldn’t manage a second test ride today for either of them.

One thing that seem to be thankfully good from all these comments is that I couldn’t go wrong irrespective of which one I end up buying.

[bevivek]

I am 5' 6", also in my 50s and was also recently on the lookout for a bike. I returned to biking after a 2 decade layoff and must have tried around 12 bike models (UM Renegade Commando, Yamaha FZ25, Apache RTR 180, Dominar 400, RE Himalayan, RE Interceptor 650, RE Continental GT 650, CBR250R, HD Street 750, HD Street Rod, Ninja 300, Kawasaki Vulcan S).

I feel the combination of seat height and bike weight is a critical one esp. if you are vertically challenged. You have also commented on this in your post with regard to the Continental GT's height cum weight and the difficulty you had on various surfaces. I fully concur. The only time the bike weight matters less is if the seat height is really low leading to a low center of gravity such as in cruisers like the HD Street 750 or the Kawasaki Vulcan S which are around 705-720 mm.

My thumb rule after trying out various bikes is to look for bikes which are 790 mm or less in seat height and less than 180 kg kerb weight. My own sweet spot is around 780 mm seat height and a weight less than 170 kg. This allows me to plant my feet on the ground and also never have to feel the bike is too weighty to control.

From the bikes I tried out which meet the criteria I have given above and have a sporty stance, I would recommend the following:

- Honda CBR250R
- Kawasaki Ninja 300

- Yamaha YZF R3 should also meet the criteria though I have not tried it

All three are very reliable. The latter two being twin engined are naturally at a higher price point. The CBR 250R has had only cosmetic improvements since it was released by Honda in 2011 but it is uber reliable with a very refined engine and good for both touring and the twisties as the many ownership reports on this forum would also tell you. After a long process of bike selection I bought a CBR250R recently and find it is perfect for my height and biking needs.

If you don't mind a more erect stance, the Yamaha FZ25 is a very sweet bike and which recently also got ABS.

PS: I just saw the recent posts including your own indicating you too have an eye on the CBR250R. I think it is a great choice as I have also conveyed above.

[mkovuri]

Here are couple of pictures of me on the two bikes. Do they convey anything for any of you as to what could suit me better or if they are nearly the same?

[BANDHAV]

^^If a selection is supposed to be made out of these two, I would suggest you to opt for thr CBR. I owned one for a brief period of 1 year, didn't ride it much but that was more to do with my schedule. It is one sweet bike. Though I go by saying that 'Age is just a number' but just as a factor CBR would suit you more.

[kailashnj]

Originally Posted by mkovuri

Here are couple of pictures of me on the two bikes. Do they convey anything for any of you as to what could suit me better or if they are nearly the same?

CBR without doubt. I am sure you have family and you won't be always riding alone. CBR has lot better suspension and rear seat comfort than the Yamaha.

Also 250CC engine is tried and tested and is bullet proof types. Go for it hands down.

R3 is little more committed seating and you will get back aches in the long run.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by mkovuri

Yamaha R15 V3 ABS : Unbelievably good. Gives me greatest fun. This factor alone is a very very overwhelming factor for me in favor of the R15 (the very reason I ride a bike after all is for fun, not just transporting me).

I guess your answer is out there.

Originally Posted by mkovuri

2. Only issue is feet reach well on level ground, but if I had a situation when my foot may have to be at lower level...

Regarding seat height and foot-reach, are you saying that the R15 is taller than the CBR ? I thought it was the other way round.

Originally Posted by mkovuri

.. that Honda dealerships were surely better organized AND customer focused than the Yamaha. Latter appeared 'a little careless' for prospective customers.

In Kerala, both are just so-so, with Honda being worse, since they have more market-share and thus the "you-can-go-to-hell" attitude. Given that both are reliable machines, the only time you are going to them is for the scheduled service, so doesn't really matter.

Originally Posted by sunilch

I have owned both in the past - first the R15 and then the CBR250, and echo your experiences. I would advice that you go for the R15 given that you are buying this primarily to have fun on the bike, to enjoy the sporty nature of the bike.

Though I own the CBR, the R15 was what I think I should have bought. I checked out the R15 as soon as it was launched and liked it, but at that time I wasn't sure I had time for a bike, so didn't buy. Finally ended up with the CBR, which I like, but I think the R15 was more like my kind of bike, lightweight, quick, chuckable etc.

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

On some motorcycles such as the CBR250R and NS200, the low end performance is pathetic to say the least ...

This is seriously one of my main grouse with the CBR - the insane amount of gear-changing needed is a pain.

Originally Posted by mkovuri

Here are couple of pictures of me on the two bikes. Do they convey anything for any of you as to what could suit me better or if they are nearly the same?

While I have been pitching for the R15 all this while, from the pics, it does look like the CBR makes a case for itself with it's more upright stance (lesser strain on long runs).

[roy_libran]

Originally Posted by mkovuri

Here are couple of pictures of me on the two bikes. Do they convey anything for any of you as to what could suit me better or if they are nearly the same?

R15 any day. Your shoulders are way more relaxed and you'll find the natural posture soon enough.

...from a 40+ year old

(I forgot to add - the spouse deterrent seat/GF friendly seat is another reason)

[mkovuri]

Originally Posted by kailashnj

… I am sure you have family and you won't be always riding alone. ….

As a matter of fact, my wife never gets on my bike. And I also prefer to ride alone. With doubles, I am not so comfortable. Also, most of my rides are long rides with friends or solo long rides. My wife doesn't accompany me. If we go together any time, it's always one of our three cars. She is not fond of bikes!

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

…. Regarding seat height and foot-reach, are you saying that the R15 is taller than the CBR ? …. This is seriously one of my main grouse with the CBR …..

Yes, R15 is 30 mm taller than CBR250R; makes adequate difference in how it feels. And the Ninja 300 that I tried at 685 mm was WAY MORE comfortable for my height. But couldn't consider for reasons of (1) very low ground clearance so much that it will have a challenge at many speed breakers in villages that I could pass though, (2) no skid plate possibility even as accessory, (3) very less service facility when I go outside of major cities, and (4) cost at almost ₹ 4 lakhs. But boy, other than these, it was a FANTASTIC bike! Just loved it. It is after riding it only I understood why those who ride Ninja 300 love their bikes so much.

And yes, I too realized during test ride that the CBR needed lot more change of gears, and was not comfortable at all in traffic jams, although it was not difficult to manage.

Originally Posted by roy_libran

R15 any day. Your shoulders are way more relaxed and you'll find the natural posture soon enough....[/i]

Good observation! I am thinking R15 may not be as difficult for me as several have put it out. By no means I am trying to say that R15 is as comfortable as CBR. I used to ride road bikes (bicycles) with about 110 PSI tire pressure, skinny tires, over sized frame for my height, and completely crouched for 100 kms from early morning to noon during weekend rides. Although I have stopped that few years ago, the Continental GT I had also needed some amount of bending. Perhaps these habits along with my last one year of phenomenal lifestyle change may all can contribute to 'relative' easy handling the R15.

[mkovuri]

Hi everyone, who helped me in taking a decision.

Eventually I ended up buying the R15 v3 ABS Racing Blue. I will perhaps post another thread on my experience.

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by mkovuri

Hi everyone, who helped me in taking a decision.

Eventually I ended up buying the R15 v3 ABS Racing Blue. I will perhaps post another thread on my experience.

Congratulations!! Great Choice