[nasirkaka]

Chill Sir, the reason I insisted on opting for a self test is to triangulate what exactly is at fault, the charging system has the stator, RR and battery to be looked into, since irrespective of what goes out the battery would be the first part the blame falls on it is only common sense to confirm the same, information freely available on the (Understanding & troubleshooting Motorcycle Charging Systems) (Understanding & troubleshooting Motorcycle Charging Systems)internet is enough to do just that plus I bet it would take the same effort needed to raise hell on the internet but in turn yield better results.

Else you'd be replacing battery after battery without an end to the issue provided the battery is not really the one to be blamed.

The reason why I'd strictly suggest solely not to depend on the SVC is simply because its not their motorcycle that is at fault but our own, and as reported by another user they might simply plonk in a new battery that would resolve concerns for the time being but leave you stranded a while later and that would be a colossal waste of time and effort.

As you've mentioned the issue rests with the service network, but then again it doesn't hurt to seek knowledge and get on top of things.

As for air filter replacement, doesn't look that hard, though definitely irritating;

Sir, i do understand and agree to your point about attempt to self diagnose the issue before giving-up but they way you put it is not agreeable at times. The issue is that most riders these days do not have the DIY inclination, and to a large extent the reason is the complex modern bike designs, especially electrical. Most of us wont understand the motorcycle charging system beyond battery even if we google it. The bike reports a weak battery and we can check volt output or take help of a near by mechanic to confirm a weak battery. Now why is the charge low? Is the battery faulty? Is there issue with RR unit? Is the alternator not providing enough charge? is the stator coil short? All these are much technical to comprehend and diagnose. Old bikes were much simpler. I was very confident with my bullets for trouble shooting. RD 350 rider friends were almost mechanics for their bikes. These days, even neighborhood mechanics do not dig deeper beyond battery when it comes to Electrical issues. Mechanical issues are different ball game altogether.

So in such situations it is only natural and logical to visit the doctor aka service center, especially when the bike is within warranty. In BMWs case, there is just one bike hospital in the state and thats been more pain then boon. And there is not much option but to depend on them. They do cry warranty void if ones digs a bit deeper to leave some marks. The electrical issues with 310GS and R do not follow any defined pattern. Its not related to a particular batch/year. Its weak battery in some cases, alternator is other, something else in next one and so on within the battery and its charging system. Service center is not been able to give satisfactory answers to these issues and take every case as one off. Nor are they acknowledging there is a collective issue with electrical and doing something about it. This is what most customers are iffy about. And that is what i guess this thread is trying to highlight. Barring this, the bike is been mechanically pretty stable and strong and not much issues have been reported barring the side stand issue before the India launch, and the recent issue with brake master cylinder. My broken return shaft spring is one of the mechanical failures.

For the airfiter access, i have seen some videos, and may give it an attempt, but the point i was trying to make is that its pretty complex to reach the air filter through entire tank shroud. The tank protection guard i have on the bike adds to complications.

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

.....As you've mentioned the issue rests with the service network, but then again it doesn't hurt to seek knowledge and get on top of things.....Hence the old saying, 'Most motorcycle problems are caused by the nut that connects the handlebars to the saddle.'

So, you expect the "nut" owner to know all the trouble shooting methods !!!
It's like getting a 'biting dog' in the house and searching on google "how to avoid getting bitten by dogs"

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by shajufx

So, you expect the "nut" owner to know all the trouble shooting methods !!!
It's like getting a 'biting dog' in the house and searching on google "how to avoid getting bitten by dogs"

Dear Sir,

There is no such thing as a 'Biting Dog', all dogs inherently bite in self defense, it is how you raise a dog that determines whether he'd bite or lick you, much like the case of our motorcycles.

Take the effort to treat em well and they'd surely return the favor many fold, irrespective of whether you feed them pedigree or salt-mango-tree.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

So in such situations it is only natural and logical to visit the doctor aka service center, especially when the bike is within warranty. In BMWs case, there is just one bike hospital in the state and thats been more pain then boon. And there is not much option but to depend on them. They do cry warranty void if ones digs a bit deeper to leave some marks. The electrical issues with 310GS and R do not follow any defined pattern. Its not related to a particular batch/year. Its weak battery in some cases, alternator is other, something else in next one and so on within the battery and its charging system. Service center is not been able to give satisfactory answers to these issues and take every case as one off. Nor are they acknowledging there is a collective issue with electrical and doing something about it. This is what most customers are iffy about. And that is what i guess this thread is trying to highlight. Barring this, the bike is been mechanically pretty stable and strong and not much issues have been reported barring the side stand issue before the India launch, and the recent issue with brake master cylinder. My broken return shaft spring is one of the mechanical failures.

nasirkaka, it is very unfortunate to see that BMW has not been able to give any satisfactory resolution to what is definitely a major issue. Since I am not mechanically inclined myself, I do not have any suggestions towards any resolution.

However, given that the BMW 310s and the Apache 310RRs are made on the same production line, could the issues faced by the BMW bikes be narrowed down to a difference of components used on the BMW ones? I havent seen cases of the Apache 310RR motorcycles suffering from similar issues which leads me to suspect that BMW might have required the specific (that turned out to be troublesome) components from different manufacturers on their 310s. This is of course, assuming that the alternators and batteries and electrical systems are different in the BMW and TVS motorcycles. Maybe a side by side comparison with an Apache 310RR could help confirm if the parts are the same or not.

The capable 310s were supposed to bring in much needed volumes for BMW but its sad to seem that BMW as a manufacturer is neglecting the issue. Maybe writing to their higher ups in Germany might help bring this to their attention. Of course, there is always the Indian and international media to help highlight these issues and the lackluster attitude of BMW India.

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

..... I haven't seen cases of the Apache 310RR motorcycles suffering from similar issues which leads me to suspect that BMW might have required the specific (that turned out to be troublesome) components from different manufacturers on their 310s........The capable 310s were supposed to bring in much needed volumes for BMW but its sad to seem that BMW as a manufacturer is neglecting the issue. Maybe writing to their higher ups in Germany might help bring this to their attention. Of course, there is always the Indian and international media to help highlight these issues and the lackluster attitude of BMW India.

You have a valid point there ! I have friends who are riding the 310RR, so far not heard of any break down issues. Also remember, 310RR has entire LED kit on it whereas BMW followed the halogen mode. DRL is the halogen headlight itself always ON, which drains out the battery to a big extend.

Battery breakdown and electrical failures are easy to blame on the owner, but what does the owner contribute in this issue when dozens of bikes are stranded globally each week ? Is it bad riding or bad owner ? I totally disagree with such weird reasoning. A bad quality product is BAD however you package it.

Check the global 310 forums, there are plenty of reports on battery, alternator, start motor failures. They all have a common blame which I see it myself every week : "Oh its an indian company (TVS), can not expect anything better" !! In fact TVS has beautiful bikes running on our roads without any major issues for many years. Now who is the culprit here ? German or Indian ?

[nasirkaka]

The capable 310s were supposed to bring in much needed volumes for BMW but its sad to seem that BMW as a manufacturer is neglecting the issue. Maybe writing to their higher ups in Germany might help bring this to their attention. Of course, there is always the Indian and international media to help highlight these issues and the lackluster attitude of BMW India.

True! BMW has been a confused and contradicting themselves with with placement of 310 twins ( the GS and the R). TVS collaboration was mainly to use their expertise to reduce cost and develop and manufacture a cost effective motorcycle for the emerging markets of the world. A Bike which is relatively affordable (or is it?). I am sure the earlier KTM - Bajaj tie-up and their super successful products, especially in European market would have played a part. Not just BMW, but even other European manufacturers followed collaboration with manufacturers in India/China/Brazil to develop cost effective bikes. Example being the Triumph-Bajaj coming together to develop sub 500cc bikes, benalli manufacturing their entry level bikes in China, etc. In BMWs case, they did develop a cost effective product with TVS (rr310) but did not pass that cost benefit to customers. In some of the foreign markets, the 310 gs is priced less then 390 duke, so why such a huge difference in India: the country of manufacture. 50K premium is digestible for their brand, not 150k. And thats the reason the they are not able to do volumes. KTMs sold like hot cake when launched in India at a relatively affordable price. they had much larger service network and sorted supply chain for spares. Initial lot did have teething issues, but at that price point, customers did not have much to complain. Moreover the feedback was taken seriously and corrective measures taken. All this critical points are missing from the way BMW is handled their 310 launch in India, the wrong pricing, issues with very limited service points, bad spares management and availability, and refusing to accept issues and doing something about it.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by shajufx

Also remember, 310RR has entire LED kit on it whereas BMW followed the halogen mode. DRL is the halogen headlight itself always ON, which drains out the battery to a big extend.

Not reason enough. The charging system should pump out around 13.5V consistently at idle speeds and I doubt a measly 60/55 Halogen H4 would suck out enough juice to leave it dry.

Heck, my pre AHO P220 currently runs on two 80W H7's either of which would be left ON all the time, yet all is well and at idle she maintains about 13.5V without breaking a sweat and mines a 2015 model, hence it's a Single Phase.

In short your 3 Phase motorcycle should be able to take way..way..way more load than mine could.

Someone from the regional group mentioned this to be a battery issue, again you can't blame one particular supplier if the issue is international. So that would again translate to a misdiagnosis from the SVC's part for which the unsuspecting user would be left stranded yet again.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by shajufx

Check the global 310 forums, there are plenty of reports on battery, alternator, start motor failures. They all have a common blame which I see it myself every week : "Oh its an indian company (TVS), can not expect anything better" !! In fact TVS has beautiful bikes running on our roads without any major issues for many years. Now who is the culprit here ? German or Indian ?

Funnily enough, while typing out my earlier post, I had started typing exactly the same thing but removed it thinking it will unnecessarily create off topic discussions. I was glad that nobody was sitting and pointing fingers at TVS for the quality issues of the BMW 310s. But from your post, sadly it looks as though people are resorting to the easy third world country bashing instead of holding BMW accountable and responsible. If it was just another Indian company with poor quality control, how come TVS rolled out the 50,000th 310 series motorcycle in December of 2018?

TVS is just building motorcycles to the exacting specifications laid out by BMW. If TVS is doing a bad job of rolling out BMW 310s or doing a shoddy job with putting together the bikes, then BMW will halt production and get TVS to pull up its socks. That is how such partnerships work. It is not TVS's fault if the blueprints and guidelines and exacting specifications mandated by BMW are leading to problems for the BMW motorcycles. Quality wise, I love the fit and finish of TVS's bikes and they do have arguably the best products in the scooters segment (NTorQ) and 200cc segment (Apache RTR 4V Race Edition).

Link to 50,000 310 series motorcycles - https://auto.ndtv.com/news/tvs-rolls...-plant-1962093

[srini1785]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

Funnily enough, while typing out my earlier post, I had started typing exactly the same thing but removed it thinking it will unnecessarily create off topic discussions. I was glad that nobody was sitting and pointing fingers at TVS for the quality issues of the BMW 310s. But from your post, sadly it looks as though people are resorting to the easy third world country bashing instead of holding BMW accountable and responsible. If it was just another Indian company with poor quality control, how come TVS rolled out the 50,000th 310 series motorcycle in December of 2018?

True, however in this case Apache is also facing similar problems see the post below:

Originally Posted by v12

Strange coincidence - a colleague of mine who has a Apache 310 also faced a similar issue. The gear lever just went limp and wouldn't shift. Issue was identified as a broken shaft or a broken spring. So maybe the issue is not only with the BMW's - its also with TVS. I will find out more from him and update here.

My understanding of the subject is that both are essentially the same motorcycle and must share almost every part except may be for cosmetics.
Just a naive question: can we give the BMW 310 to a TVS showroom for service?.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by srini1785

Just a naive question: can we give the BMW 310 to a TVS showroom for service?.

Can you give a Toyota glanza to Maruti asc for service?

[RSimonS]

It is difficult to get warranty claims honored by the dealership, we came across a case in which an engine oil change (to the recommended grade of oil, not BMW badge) voiding the warranty of the bike. A local mechanic checking the a stranded bike also resulted in invalidating warranty claim. Fitting aux lite is also treated as an issue with warranty claims.

It would be real fun if the bike owners diagnose the problem and then go to the dealership for the fix.

As one of the fellow owner mentioned, dealership treat us like 3rd or 4th class citizens, it is not the case with many of the dealerships up north or down south.

[nasirkaka]

TVS is just building motorcycles to the exacting specifications laid out by BMW. If TVS is doing a bad job of rolling out BMW 310s or doing a shoddy job with putting together the bikes, then BMW will halt production and get TVS to pull up its socks. That is how such partnerships work. It is not TVS's fault if the blueprints and guidelines and exacting specifications mandated by BMW are leading to problems for the BMW motorcycles. Quality wise, I love the fit and finish of TVS's bikes and they do have arguably the best products in the scooters segment (NTorQ) and 200cc segment (Apache RTR 4V Race Edition).

From my BMW interaction, what i have understood is that TVS is just providing space, equipment, human resource, etc but the entire assembly line for BMW is separate and functions under BMW (India). Most parts are sourced from vendor partners and stocked in Mumbai from where it is sent to TVS Hosur for assembly. The bike was designed by BMW and developed in collaboration with TVS for manufacturing and sourcing. Basis technology sharing understanding, the RR310 was born, but both bikes had very different directions based on their respective companies. TVS is been operating in Indian market and is known for testing their vehicles with more then double the maximum permissible load. No wonder we see TVS XL and their other bikes hauling loads without much issues. BMW was shocked to learn these and were more inline with their approach. It seems they have a world class accelerated aging simulation setup in TVS Hosur for extensive testing. Both the companies have different ideologies but are together for a mutual beneficial reason. Am sure same vendors would be making parts for both the companies basis their brief, cost and quality requirement. In short, BMW is making their motorcycles in India under TVS infrastructure. I know the media news makes is sound different.

Just a naive question: can we give the BMW 310 to a TVS showroom for service?.

Sadly No, but i would have loved to get my bike serviced at TVS service. Would have opened many outlet options, would be cheaper, and spare parts would not be so un-accessible.

As one of the fellow owner mentioned, dealership treat us like 3rd or 4th class citizens, it is not the case with many of the dealerships up north or down south.

i know. They even stopped offering coffee the last time i visited.

[shajufx]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

.....They even stopped offering coffee the last time i visited.

When dozens of bikes are towed to a tiny dealership space, they can't offer coffee nor a chair even if you are ready to pay for it. "Sorry customer, you can entertain yourself at the next door coffee shop, while we figure out what to do with these dead batteries"

[AtheK]

Stator coil on my Apache RR310 had also failed, but the bike was towed and delivered next day, no drama and no waiting. Few other bikes have alo had this issue, service center has stocked enough replacement and are prepared. Also this issues is only with the initial batch of bikes, and recent ones are doing fine.

[Ajaybiz]

My GS is back from 2nd servicing without any issues, also the service charges were not that much what I expected, smooth experience still I am not been able to love this bike of mine