[petrolhead_neel]

@Urban Nomad, what a great thread! Thanks! The dual-sport, enduro and MTB community in India is small, but growing! I'm yet to get my license (I can now say it's just a few months more), but motorcycles consume a large portion of my life. I started riding off road sometime last year and it has been fabulous so far, in spite of just being restricted to one or two small trails. I can't wait to really go out there and get muddy on two wheels once I get my license next year.

Meet Project Ellie, my 2010 Honda CB Twister that I inherited from my father. Before you shake your head in dismay, this motorcycle is quite a bit different than your normal commuter and has been a very faithful and dare I say, very fun ride during the weekends.


Here are the minimal mods that I have done so far.

1. Michelin Sirac Street (rear, stock size): The mod that made me realise how important tires are when going off road. Great, great budget tire, especially for light and lowered powered motorcycles, both on tarmac and off it. Front is still a City Pro that is kind of getting the job done for now since it's relatively new and has a lot of tread left.


2. RD style handlebar: A very extensive modification that changed the game while riding off road. While I have lost out a bit on the nimbleness during low speeds, the confidence while riding fast has increased by spades. The biggest advantage is of course the fact that I can now (kind of) stand up and saddle the bike properly.



3. Removal of extra bits like sari-guard and front number plate (replaced by a sticker), etc.

I will write more about what I have learnt so far, as a beginner, in a later post.

Neel

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

A dealer friend of mine is trying to get this done at his Hero workshop. Says the entire front end (brakes, forks, T... everything) should not cost more than 12K. Even he wasn't sure if the steering stem would fit in the Impulse's head but I guess we will find out real soon. No word from him on the 18 rear though. I really want that too. I am very sure a skilled wheel guy should be able to lace it up.

Hope this helps. I'll keep you posted on how this develops

I'd appreciate any news on this.

I'm in the same boat as nitro1000bhp. Front forks leaking, springs not in good shape, rear busted and overdue for replacement. I've been eyeing a custom front suspension springs and revalving, and aftermarket rear shock. I won't go for them if the xpulse parts are an easy fit.

[drt_rdr]

Seeking suggestions and advice on putting a steel braided brake line for the impulse, from people who've done this sort of thing before (not necessarily on an impulse).

Brakefluid started slightly leaking out of the master cylinder cap around a year ago. It was barely noticeable, and the brakes were fine, so I just ignored it. The bike hasn't seen much use recently, and since a couple of weeks now, leak has grown significantly, and is leaking out of a couple of other spots too. And as of today, the front brake no longer works.

I'll be replacing the master cylinder, and while I'm at it, I want to replace the brake line too (both over 7 years old). So, regarding steel braided lines:

1. Does it make things better or worse in terms of braking on the dirt? I mean I feel safe with the blunt feel of the stock brake. I don't want it to become too grabby.

2. If it's indeed for the better, any suggestions on which ones to go with for maximum VFM?

[nitro.1000bhp]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Seeking suggestions and advice on putting a steel braided brake line for the impulse, from people who've done this sort of thing before (not necessarily on an impulse).

Brakefluid started slightly leaking out of the master cylinder cap around a year ago. It was barely noticeable, and the brakes were fine, so I just ignored it. The bike hasn't seen much use recently, and since a couple of weeks now, leak has grown significantly, and is leaking out of a couple of other spots too. And as of today, the front brake no longer works.

I'll be replacing the master cylinder, and while I'm at it, I want to replace the brake line too (both over 7 years old). So, regarding steel braided lines:

1. Does it make things better or worse in terms of braking on the dirt? I mean I feel safe with the blunt feel of the stock brake. I don't want it to become too grabby.

2. If it's indeed for the better, any suggestions on which ones to go with for maximum VFM?

Road or off-road , braided lines are anyday better. Just get the correct length line as the impulse fork compresses a lot so it needs that length so it doesn't bend or stretch too much. I have tried so many master cylinder and brake pads combo that I don't even remember what is currently on my bike . I'm guessing I have a Duke 200 master cylinder and some bajaj brake pad...I really not sure but the braking feel and bite had improved a lot from the stock setup.

If you asked me I'd say give more braking power than less at any situation..be it braking off-road or on road. More stopping power is always good. When feel the brakes locking I just release and brake again...manual ABS mode ...hope this helps.

[drt_rdr]

Thanks. You're right, and I suppose I shouldn't have any trouble adjusting to a bit stronger front bite off-road.

I'm not sure I can reliably brake at the edge of traction offroad though, because I've had a couple of hard braking instances where, even with my weight on the front, it locked up without warning, and I lost control. I've come to depend more on the rear, and am quite comfortable locking it up, even on the roads.

In case I find the front uncomfortable, i suppose I can just bleed off a little bit of fluid.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

I've had a couple of hard braking instances where, even with my weight on the front, it locked up.

You want your weight towards the back... not front when braking off road. The front can tuck in and you can go over the bars.

How much should you move back? It’s directly proportional to how hard you brake. Harder the braking, the more you need to move back. Of course, standing up helps a ton with this weight transfer. You must get comfortable with using the front brake on dirt. It is what provides you your max stopping power, just like on road.

Try not to lock up the rear. It’s a bad habit that very hard to brake. You lose so much control while cornering and be slow and awkward. Use the front brakes and use them well. Just because the riding surface changes, the physics doesn’t

All the best. Hope you go out and practice the right technique. Do let us know how it goes

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Thanks. You're right, and I suppose I shouldn't have any trouble adjusting to a bit stronger front bite off-road.

https://youtu.be/kvtq99AQbeE

Personally I don't ride competitively at least not anymore, so the majority of the braking force is from engine braking, followed by the rear brake while trialing the front to a pinch on halting.

Crappy technique, but less thought required to process.

In case I find the front uncomfortable, i suppose I can just bleed off a little bit of fluid.

The only way you can dumb down feedback on a hydraulic brake setup is by introducing air. Which is not recommended cause effectiveness is affected by the time you put in, the hotter the system gets the crappier your braking becomes.

[nitro.1000bhp]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Thanks. You're right, and I suppose I shouldn't have any trouble adjusting to a bit stronger front bite off-road.

I'm not sure I can reliably brake at the edge of traction offroad though, because I've had a couple of hard braking instances where, even with my weight on the front, it locked up without warning, and I lost control. I've come to depend more on the rear, and am quite comfortable locking it up, even on the roads.

In case I find the front uncomfortable, i suppose I can just bleed off a little bit of fluid.

If you have good brakes there is no need to get to the edge of traction at all. Learn to brake early when off road. As trailing the front brakes into the turn usually leads up to a lock up or a generally unsettles the chassis as your suspension is loaded up and it would refuse to turn . Brake early and finish your braking in a straight line, lock your elbows , this will help settle the chassis. And release the brakes slowly and then give it some throttle so the rear starts to step out , now counter steer and once you see the exit you can go wot. Throttling up before the turn will bring the front suspension up so it can deal with any undulations you may find in the middle of the corner. Also because you are leaned in the front tyre does not have full contact patch on the road , so throttling up will shift weight bias towards the rear and you can rear wheel steer with just the throttle. This is true for the road also but you need more throttle control or you could high side badly.

It's usually tough to unlearn certain things we have taken for granted and it's embedded in our muscle memory...but when you actually try these things you realise it's simply easier and takes less of a toll on body and machine.

[drt_rdr]

I was talking about hard braking/panic braking, guys. My normal braking habits and body positioning are quite decent (I like to believe) and I don't slip and slide the rear every chance I get. Still, its good info to go over.

Impulse is still in deep freeze awaiting brake and suspension parts. In the meantime, being a dirt devotee, i took one of our roadbikes out to some hilly, rocky trails and gravel roads with the express secondary intent of testing what you guys collectively pointed towards (main intent being just to get some fresh air), and came back with a "Yeah, that works for me." Thanks.

Shifting my weight back on hard braking definitely is the safe thing to do and my body seems to have come to know this intuitively since quite a bit of time now. Now that I tested it to the point of lockup, I can say I like the communication I get from the front on when it'll lockup. I feel like I'd be more confident now with having a stronger bite on the front. Though i got more stopping power with my weight towards the front, it felt like it came at the expense of more frequent lockups with less warning. Now that I've tested this out, my brain knows what my body already knew. I mean I can say I consciously know what to do now.

Still feel like more rear is the better answer for panic braking in a dynamic situation. I mean I don't compete on a track. I just ride a lot on all kinds of trails... sometimes fast. I had another incident today where I had to come to a quick stop nearing a turn over some undulating loose terrain. I probably would have gone down if I weren't careful with the front. The rear though, I can just step on it without worrying much. Seems like it's probably something I can't ever depend less on.

Also attaching a picture from today. It's a totally stock Suzuki gs150r parked on a long uphill trail to an old temple. This bike is really a gem of usability.

[ashwinprakas]

Hey guys,

A major challenge I face with the CT100B is that at times the front end is too eager to lift off the ground when encountering rocky uphill terrain and before the motorcycle does a 12:00 I chop the throttle and lay the motorcycle down most of the time.

Since I'm mostly alone when encountering trails I've not had the opportunity to be videotaped during the act or at times even take a photo of the trail in question. But this time a few enthusiasts from my regional group decided to take a trail that I'd encountered during one of my rides;

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/trave...aj-ct100b.html (Midnight Trails, Ulupuni & Urumbikkara on a Bajaj CT100B)

Anyhow, one of the guys was able to capture a video of the same happening to another rider from the group, I'm uploading the video here for your input.

https://youtu.be/vFC5j0bZ1-o

My understanding so far is that the weight of the motorcycle is a concern and when encountering challenging terrain we have to slip the clutch quite a bit and when re-engaging the clutch the front end lifts due to the higher revs.

Scope of improving clutch control is minimal as the clutch engagement is kinda ON/OFF not as progressive as on some motorcycles.

Do share your inputs, I'm anyhow going to upsize both rims from 1.6-1.85 to 1.85-2.15, along with that I'm contemplating raising the rear by an inch or two by going for a different set of shocks hoping it would make the motorcycle more front biased as at times even when climbing aggressive inclines on tarmac with a pillion the front tends to come off the ground.

Regards,
A.P.

[drt_rdr]

You could try:

- standing up on the pegs and leaning slightly towards the front when you slip the clutch. With your weight over the front, it's less likely to rear up.

- not revving too much when you slip the clutch.

- slipping the clutch in the next gear. Lesser amount of torque to deal with.

- riding the clutch over the obstacle instead of slipping it... if that works well enough.

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

You could try:

- standing up on the pegs and leaning slightly towards the front when you slip the clutch. With your weight over the front, it's less likely to rear up.

Front goes up even with me literally sitting on the tank, due to the design it is kinda easy to slide on to the fuel tank, though sometime in the future I might get an alternate tank of that of the 4S Champion or Boxer as its more similar to the RX type fuel tank and its easier to slide all the way up to the front.

- not revving too much when you slip the clutch.

Not an option, motorcycle bogs and stalls. I weigh 120kg's and the motorcycle is a 100cc.

- slipping the clutch in the next gear. Lesser amount of torque to deal with.

The gears are wide apart being a 4 Speed. You're either in the right gear or you're not.

- riding the clutch over the obstacle instead of slipping it... if that works well enough.

Even too much momentum can send the front end flying. Here's an extract from a previous ride that corroborates the same;

....my front end at one point bounced off a rock and almost had me flying off the hill which fortunately ended with my front wheel coming into contact with the ground and stopping just at the edge.

We have a ZMA in the group and the thing being a relative long stroke effortlessly tractors over obstacles without any clutch slipping, be in 1st or 2nd gear and you can literally cruise on such terrain at 20~40kmph, minimal effort. To the point it makes me jealous.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Front goes up even with me literally sitting on the tank

Standing up allows you to load the front more than sitting though... unless the standing position is uncomfortable on your bike.

The gears are wide apart being a 4 Speed. You're either in the right gear or you're not. :(

Not sure I can relate completely to this.... but the 2nd gear on the impulse is a bit tall for its engine characteristic and the power it makes. And coming off the 1st, theres a noticeable drop in pull if youre not at mid to high rpms. I tend to pull the clutch in, rev it up high and slip it in such cases

If you want to restrain some of that high rpm torque and forward momentum, quickly grab the clutch again.

Even too much momentum can send the front end flying.

Hmm, how about riding the clutch in repeated short bursts? It helps you stay in the sweet spot of traction and control. I find myself doing that a lot when riding over loose, pebbly/stony surfaces... sometimes it almost sounds like repeatedly slipping the clutch.

.....

Difficult to make suggestions without having a good look at the specific terrain you want to troubleshoot though.

[Urban_Nomad]

Hi Ashwin - You have already received some solid advice. Just adding my 2 cents:

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Hey guys,

A major challenge I face with the CT100B is that at times the front end is too eager to lift off the ground when encountering rocky uphill terrain and before the motorcycle does a 12:00 I chop the throttle and lay the motorcycle down most of the time

This has to be a function of clutch and throttle usage. If both are abrupt, the front end comes up unpredictably. Not good

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Since I'm mostly alone when encountering trails I've not had the opportunity to be videotaped during the act or at times even take a photo of the trail in question. But this time a few enthusiasts from my regional group decided to take a trail that I'd encountered during one of my rides

The gentleman in the vid has made a few mistakes. He is:

- Sitting down
- Both feet off the pegs
- Cant see evidence of proper clutch control here

The video has been taken from afar and isn't the clearest. In case I have misinterpreted anything, please feel free to correct me

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

My understanding so far is that the weight of the motorcycle is a concern

Could you please elaborate? The bike weighs around 110 kilos IIRC. What exactly is the concern with weight?

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

Scope of improving clutch control is minimal as the clutch engagement is kinda ON/OFF not as progressive as on some motorcycles

Why is the clutch on and off? That's dangerous, off road or on it. Would like to hear more on this before I say anything conclusive. I will say though, asking to ride off road without proper clutch control is like taking a kayak through the rapids without an oar

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

hoping it would make the motorcycle more front biased as at times even when climbing aggressive inclines on tarmac with a pillion the front tends to come off the ground

Which off road motorcycle is front heavy? Isnt that a function of the street bikes? If you are worried about off road performance et al, you will be doing more harm than good. You are chopping an arm so that you can forget about your leg pain

The simple funda to remember while going through rocky terrain is to keep the font end light. Rocks are extremely unforgiving. You want to skip over them by keeping the front end light, not crash into them by putting more weight on your front wheel. Standing up helps loads and keep those feet on the pegs, pressing your weight down and into them. The bike will slip if the rocks are loosely strewn. The only way to correct this is with body position and feathering the clutch

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

This has to be a function of clutch and throttle usage. If both are abrupt, the front end comes up unpredictably. Not good

True, but the issue is present only with the CT100B, no such thing with the ZMA or even the P220 for that matter.

The gentleman in the vid has made a few mistakes. He is:

- Sitting down
- Both feet off the pegs
- Cant see evidence of proper clutch control here

The video has been taken from afar and isn't the clearest. In case I have misinterpreted anything, please feel free to correct me

Unfortunately this was the only video available nearly resembling the issue I face.

The reason the rider is sitting and waddling is to conserve energy, at the end of the day he is clocking 400~500km's.

When riding to nearby trails even I'm able to manage the CT100B pretty decently, but the concern faced is when we'd be facing gnarly sections after half a days worth of riding and another half remaining.

Could you please elaborate? The bike weighs around 110 kilos IIRC. What exactly is the concern with weight?

Even on perfectly laid tarmac the front end tends to lift off the ground when going uphill and at times even on level roads with a pillion the front end tends to lift when I try to overtake.

I am at wits end regarding this concern.

P.S. I can try to slip the clutch to ease things, but feel that is not an ideal resolution, as I've burnt the clutch clean off my P220 during an instance where I had to slip clutch for quite a bit, end result being I had to ride 600+ km's back home with a burnt clutch.

Why is the clutch on and off? That's dangerous, off road or on it. Would like to hear more on this before I say anything conclusive. I will say though, asking to ride off road without proper clutch control is like taking a kayak through the rapids without an oar

Clutch be like this when engaging: No Engagement....No Engagement....No Engagement....No Engagement....No Engagement....Jattak!!! 100% instantaneous bite!!!

Also to note, this bike isn't equipped with Belleville Clutch Springs like other motorcycles, under load were you'd at the least expect progressive engagement there is only aggressive juddering and jerking.

Do not think of your average motorcycle, this is as crude as it gets which ironically is the reason I find her to be more dependable than her modern counter parts, but I have to find a way around this Achilles Heel cause it is really bothering me.

Which off road motorcycle is front heavy? Isnt that a function of the street bikes? If you are worried about off road performance et al, you will be doing more harm than good. You are chopping an arm so that you can forget about your leg pain

An off-road motorcycle has a 1:1 weight distribution which I believe is the same as regular street bikes, but that is not the concern here, I have to incorporate something that would prevent the front end going off the ground and nearly back flipping.

On my P220 I have the rear raised i.e more front biased weight transfer, the seat height is 845mm and GC is 220mm, and even with the clip-ons I've ridden her up slippery boulder trails and she has fared well, then again the P220 was originally prepped as so to take advantage of softer compound tires and better brake upgrade.

As you can guess, I am almost out of options, hence contemplating the same for CT100B if all else fails.