[sathish81]

Back in feb 2019 my wife's 10 year old scooty started giving constant engine troubles. Having had enough, we decided to replace it and search for new scooter began. This scooter would be used mostly for local run-about and dropping/picking up my daughter from classes. Max daily usage will be around 7 KMs.

After TDing almost every scooter she liked, we zeroed in on Honda Grazia. I was about to make full payment of scooter and get delivery. It so happened a friend had purchased a hero optima and was giving good reviews. Looked at the specification and optima checked all the boxes

1. Removable battery : Cannot have permanent charging station, as our abode is an apartment
2. Range of 50 Km per charge: Charging once a week should be sufficient
3. Belt less design: Motor is very quiet
4. Sealed Lithium battery: Lightweight and zero maintenance.
5. Reliability of Hero Brand.

(4,5 would mean little as I realized later)

Called up a nearby hero electric dealer (normal hero showrooms do not sell EV's) - Chennai Eco motors perungalathur, Chennai and booked the TD. To our pleasant surprise, sales rep reached our place within a hour with the vehicle. TD done, booked the vehicle the same day by paying 5k Advance. Wait period was 15 days.

At this point I must complement Chennai Eco motors for their excellents service. The sales executive Mr.Karthik kept calling and updated me about status of my booking. Vehicle was delivered 2 days before the expected wait period.


Pros/Cons after using vehicle for few days (comments mostly from my wife who is the primary user)

Pros

Literally no fuss vehicle. Turn on the key twist throttle and ride away.
No noise
Checking air pressure is the only maintenance involved.

Cons
NO ODO!! Update: The ODO flashes for a second when the scooter is turned on
No engine braking!!! Takes sometime getting used to this.
Does not have a start/stop button-Need to be careful around kids.
Realistic range is 40 KM per charge- the battery indicator starts blinking after this and leads to range anxiety.

Service Experience

The Vehicle has 3 main parts- Controller, Motor and Battery. Except for charging the battery, there is no other maintenance needed. In both first and second free service, vehicle was cleaned with a wet cloth and brakes were checked.


Fast forward to OCT 19

Good things dont last long- so they say. One day when taking out the battery for charging, I noticed that it had bulged!! Bulged lithium batteries always turn on my safety radar due to my past experience involving a sony Viao laptop . Also, considering the fact the vehicle was used by my wife and Kid, I immediately called the service center and also sent a mail to hero. This is where things started going downhill.

Hero sent me the phone number of their service engineer. I called him and informed him of the battery bulge issue and told him I have safety concern over battery bulge. His immediate response was "Overcharging could have caused the bulge" and gave me an example of how mobile battery can bulge when overcharged. This is in direct contradiction with what hero says about battery management system in their user manual (page 7)- User Manual

I requested him to look at the vehicle and ensure that it is safe to use.

Vehicle was taken in for battery test. I kept insisting that I am more concerned about safety of battery than mileage. After 3 days of "Mileage tests" vehicle was returned to me stating there is nothing wrong. The service engineer also called me to say battery is safe to use and I can only hope he has done due diligence. (I have recordings of all calls- just in case)

Scooter runs fine but the nagging concern remains.

Lessons Learnt

- Lithium battery technology has a long way to go before it is completely safe for everyday use.
- This is still India!! safety takes a backseat no matter who manufactures/services the product. Govt should/would wake up at some point and frame regulations regarding battery safety and consumer rights.
- Companies can get creative w.r.t warranty policies of batteries. Check page 14 of user manual- Wish I had seen this before purchasing the vehicle.


This experience has been enlightening in the true sense.

[narayan]

Originally Posted by sathish81

This experience has been enlightening in the true sense.

Agree. EV scooters have a long way to go in India. Also what I have noticed is that for most people scooter usage is very low per day. for e.g - people who have regular office commutes generally prefer motor cycles for the better comfort and fuel efficiency. Hence, I wonder what is the cost benefit of a EV scooter over a Petrol one for such low usage.

[sathish81]

Originally Posted by narayan

Agree. EV scooters have a long way to go in India. Also what I have noticed is that for most people scooter usage is very low per day. for e.g - people who have regular office commutes generally prefer motor cycles for the better comfort and fuel efficiency. Hence, I wonder what is the cost benefit of a EV scooter over a Petrol one for such low usage.

There isnt much economic benefit, contrary to what manufacturers claim.

Typically scooters like optima come with a battery/motor warranty of 3 years. Cost of battery+motor is around 80% of cost of vehicle. Taking battery as an example cost of no name 48V24AH lithium battery pack is approx 25k- so any battery replacement by user is just not feasible within the promised warranty period. With the assumption, manufacturer honor the warranty life of battery scooter should be taken as 3 years.

In my case the math works as follows:

7Km/day*1095 days= 7665 Km

Charging cost for 7665 Km (Assuming 2 units consumed per charge and 45 Km range)= INR 2380 (per unit electricity cost is taken to be around 7 INR)

Actual costs work to be approx 9 per KM.

Comparing this with a ICE based scooter that gives a mileage of 40 Kmpl, EV scooter is more expensive.

Add reduced battery range with age and the creative warranty policies like Hero's (or refusal to honor warranty) you have a 2 wheeler that costs more than Opex for your car.

That said, the novelty factor of charging and driving out is a huge plus.

For people who are considering EV scooters, I would strongly recommend going for a monthly subscription plan like what Ather offers. Obviously, shorter tenure plans (like 6 months) make sense even though it appears you are losing money.

[GTO]

Thanks for sharing your short + concise experience .

Originally Posted by sathish81

NO ODO!!

Huh? Serious? Unique way to take away calculation of the actual range of an EV?

This is still India!! safety takes a backseat no matter who manufactures/services the product.

It's these kind of experiences that give EVs a bad name. Of course, at the other end of the spectrum is Ather (in scooters) & Tesla (in cars). Both are premium, but they are top-class vehicles.

Please share pictures of your ride .

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by sathish81

- Companies can get creative w.r.t warranty policies of batteries. Check page 14 of user manual- Wish I had seen this before purchasing the vehicle.
This experience has been enlightening in the true sense.

Their warranty terms are just bad. Attaching their warranty terms from their user manual.

Their warranty applies only if the range/battery degrades to more than 50% after 2 years. For a vehicle with 40KM realistic range, if your battery degrades to give 21 KM realistic range after 2 years, you are not eligible for a battery replacement.
We need to really name and shame these companies for giving such lax warranty terms.

On a related note, Hyundai is no saint either when it comes to its Kona's battery warranty. Hyundai doesn't explicitly specify at what percentage of the battery capacity degradation/range loss that they replace the battery under its 8 Year warranty. Considering the pathetic consumer protection we have in India, they can get even more creative than Hero and could say that if your car moves atleast a few KMs, they could call it normal wear & tear and deny warranty.

Mahindra had a policy of 75% range loss for claiming their battery warranty. We need to wait and see the warranty terms of MG and the Tatas.

[sathish81]

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks for sharing your short + concise experience .



Huh? Serious? Unique way to take away calculation of the actual range of an EV?



It's these kind of experiences that give EVs a bad name. Of course, at the other end of the spectrum is Ather (in scooters) & Tesla (in cars). Both are premium, but they are top-class vehicles.

Please share pictures of your ride .

The ODO reading flashes for a second after turning on-never noticed it before. Apologize for this error. Please edit and change my post if possible.

Pics coming up soon.

[sathish81]

No Belt, No Noise- Motor part of wheel assembly.


Underseat storage hugeeeee compared to normal scooters!!!! Notice battery compartment has a separate lock.


Controller with MCB cutout switch. The plastic cover just comes off, no hinge.


The connector becomes loose after plug/unplugging few times- better design needed. Tape to make it stay connected, else it gets dislodged when going over bumps causing momentary loss of power.






Charger has a fan, bit noisy but not unbearable.


ODO reading flashes for a second or so when scooter is turned on- very easy to miss.



Trip meter resets after every time you turn off the scooter.



Observants might notice flipped positions of horn and turn indicators. Takes time getting used to this. Also key has remote for engaging alarm, we did not find it useful- the cost of this could have been utilized for better quality control and quality of plastic bits!

[srini1785]

A good ownership thread. A bulging battery is definitely a sign of overcharging due to trapped gasses inside a sealed battery. Imo dangerous. I am told that Hero electric is legally separate entity from Hero motors. So Hero can play safe in case of litigation. I would not be surprised if these are Chinese test mules which are branded hero products. I notice two things that surprise me.

1. A standard household looking MCB next to the controller.
2. No overcharge cut off indication in the charger.

Even a non standard ( Non OEM) battery chargers have such indication. A battery charger without such arrangement is like having a water geyser without thermostat. One such non OEM charger is attached with cut off is shown for ref only.

I notice that its a hub wheel design and most of the modern E Scooters have already moved to belt drives. Makes you fix punctures easily and provides much better millage. Downside, you have lesser under seat boot space.

PS : No connection with this company Titan. Its one of those images pulled off the net.

[sathish81]

Originally Posted by srini1785

A good ownership thread. A bulging battery is definitely a sign of overcharging due to trapped gasses inside a sealed battery. Imo dangerous. I am told that Hero electric is legally separate entity from Hero motors. So Hero can play safe in case of litigation. I would not be surprised if these are Chinese test mules which are branded hero products. I notice two things that surprise me.

1. A standard household looking MCB next to the controller.
2. No overcharge cut off indication in the charger.

There is zero chance of overcharging- everytime the battery was charged for around 4-5 hours( till the LED turns green). I told the service station to check it with diagnosis of BMS and controller- not sure they did that.

In the user manual there is mention of battery management system that is supposed to prevent overcharging, short-circuit etc. I had checked the manual before I purchased the scooter.

Main parts of scooter are definitely from china.- battery,charger are from http://phylion.com/.

There are many local scooters with same specs that go for half the price- I looked at some of them. The premium I paid was for Hero QC.

[sen2009]

Due to enormous mechanical complexity of ICE engines, only large organizations could build vehicles. And hence, they always have held the power over consumers. Unfair warranty to repainting damaged vehicle, everything must be swallowed down without complaint.

But EV changes all that. Like the OP has already mentioned, 80% of an EV is the battery, motor and controller. And for the simplicity it brings, already a hundred startups have sprouted in this space.

In three to four years time, the scenario will completely change and hero will be welcomed to the table of blackberry and kodak.

While most of us continue to wait on the sidelines, people like Sathish are leading the change. He might not find this scooter economical, but thanks to him, many of us will in a few years.

[bronco]

I’m planning to replace my dad’s Activa early next year. The way dealer has handled bulged battery makes wary of Hero Electric.

How much time does it take to charge 100%?
Would you mind sharing on-road price?

[sathish81]

Originally Posted by bronco

I’m planning to replace my dad’s Activa early next year. The way dealer has handled bulged battery makes wary of Hero Electric.

How much time does it take to charge 100%?
Would you mind sharing on-road price?

Charging time to 100% is around 4 to 4.5 Hrs.

When I purchased the on-road price was 71k. But I think there are some discounts running now.

You might want to look at Ather, if you can have a permanent charging point or wait till Bajaj launches Chetak, if you don't want to take chances with Hero Electric.

[vigneshA]

Originally Posted by sathish81

Actual costs work to be approx 9 per KM.

9 Rs/KM seems huge -comparable to a car. Can you please help break this down.
I understood the 2380 electricity charges. May be another 30K for battery and say another 3k for services. This seems to end up with 4.5 Rs/KM, which though in itself is not economical, sounds less intimidating.

[gautam109]

Originally Posted by srini1785

I am told that Hero electric is legally separate entity from Hero motors. So Hero can play safe in case of litigation. off the net.

Not just legally separate but different ownership and management too. There was a family separation done some time back under which Hero Motocorp went to Mr. Pawan Munjal and the Hero Electric business, including rights to use the "Hero" brand for EVs, went to Mr. Naveen Munjal.

So these are two fundamentally separate entities. An unfortunate situation for Hero Motocorp - it's brand equity is at risk if Hero Electric does not live up expectations from the "Hero" brand.

Link: https://www.livemint.com/auto-news/f...079431571.html

Interestingly, Hero Motocorp is a major investor in Ather (owns about 30% at last count), so Pawan Munjal has found a way to enter EV space without violating the family agreement.

[sathish81]

Originally Posted by vigneshA

9 Rs/KM seems huge -comparable to a car. Can you please help break this down.
I understood the 2380 electricity charges. May be another 30K for battery and say another 3k for services. This seems to end up with 4.5 Rs/KM, which though in itself is not economical, sounds less intimidating.

This is for my use case of 7 KM per day. If you use the scooter 40 KM per day cost comes down to 1.9 INR- but this is assuming consistent battery performance throughout 3 years.