[Jaggu]

And price is a huge factor ... I'm not a theoretical auto journalist writing scenarios here.

This I completely agree! The frigging bike is absolutely overpriced, the only reason I crinched and paid up was the normal Duke price is also abnoxiously high in India now! The first gen 390 was on road 1.8 or something in BLR! and current one close to 3 Lakhs! If one is money concious I would say the Duke 200 is the best VFM pack from KTM minus limitation on broken stuff.

Originally Posted by ebonho

this baby and a 2013 Duke, shod with similar tyres, with similar riders up top, there would be zero difference on any terrain.

Cheers, Doc

ehm! I sold the first gen 390 to get the Adv 390 and I do see a world of difference between the two when it comes to comfort and ability to cover broken patches, even with the neutered suspension package offered here in India. I am not even referring to offroad, just normal Bengaluru roads, the poor duke used to tire out and needed attention every 2-3k kms with the kind of road we have, and my kind of little carefree riding. The Adv on the other hand still feels as it left the showroom at 2k kms, so much so that I keep delaying the 2nd service appointment to cover more kms, just opposite to what I used to do with Duke. So I would say apart from a street fight, Adventure does all what Duke does and does it better. You are free to disagree but this ^ is what majority of Indian buyers who upgraded their KTM have experienced.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Between the Duke and the Adv, I believe that the Duke can do what the Adv does a bit better than the Adv can do what the Duke does.

Disagree again, yes the Adventure do misses out the maniac acceleration of a rempaped first gen duke I was used to, but it is pretty close with even more refinement and all the plus points of the duke. Again till date I have not ridden the new gen Duke so my reference is the old duke. And it is not just me, and atleast 2 avid bikers who again used to have the first gen Duke confirms the same. So it is just your perception and from where I am, and it is totally a wrong one.

Edit: Just saw the conversation that continued.

You will never be able to drop her into full tarmac mode.

That's what I was trying to convey about which bike does the others job better.

Absolutely hence I mentioned it cant be a street fighter if that is what you want. Similarly no matter what you do to a Duke you can't make it as comfy as an adventure for touring, hence I paid the big unfustified bucks.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

ehm! I sold the first gen 390 to get the Adv 390 and I do see a world of difference between the two when it comes to comfort and ability to cover broken patches, even with the neutered suspension package offered here in India. I am not even referring to offroad, just normal Bengaluru roads, the poor duke used to tire out and needed attention every 2-3k kms with the kind of road we have, and my kind of little carefree riding. The Adv on the other hand still feels as it left the showroom at 2k kms, so much so that I keep delaying the 2nd service appointment to cover more kms, just opposite to what I used to do with Duke.

You make a very good and relevant point about comfort and stiffness of build leading to faster wear and tear.

But I'm still young enough to take that as a price for what I get for it over the Adv.

Maybe the Adv is a middle aged man's Duke.

Cheers, Doc

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Maybe the Adv is a middle aged man's Duke.

Cheers, Doc

I think you have a very valid point there, one of the reason I quickly upgraded the Striple to a Tiger and Duke to Adventure. Having said that if the roads we have was as decent as what we find in a developed country, even I would have been happy with a street bike.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ebonho

How does anyone elses matter to me?

Cheers, Doc

Originally Posted by ebonho

He gets it spot on in the last sentence summation.

You certainly seemed buoyed by the F9 opinion. Just saying..toodle doo

Yeah, 40 is middle aged enough for me. I dont have a 25 year old spine anymore.

[neil.jericho]

As someone who hasnt even test ridden the Adv 390, my two paise may not be worth much in this debate but I have followed the launch and reception, both in India and globally, pretty closely. I feel that for India, KTM has seriously erred in
- their pricing of the Adv 390.
- not giving the adjustable suspension for us.
So as a regular Joe who is a keen motorcyclist, the pricing appears to be super steep in today's market.

I also have a theory (I must stress, this is completely unrelated to anyone on the thread and is only based on reading multiple forums!!!) that someone who can easily afford the Adv 390 will find the the value in the bike a lot easier as compared to say someone who is reaching up and stretching to get the Adv 390. I believe this holds true for all bikes, for example, someone who has a Rs 5L budget would find a lot more value in a Rs 4.25L Honda CB500X than someone who has a Rs 3.5L budget and needs to account for an additional year's worth of EMIs. Or maybe that is how my mind works and my grand theory could be wrong as well.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

You certainly seemed buoyed by the F9 opinion. Just saying..toodle doo

Yeah, 40 is middle aged enough for me. I dont have a 25 year old spine anymore.

It mirrored much of my opinion, which I have been quite free in voicing for near on two years now, long before his video, so I jumped in. Nothing more than that.

The Duke on stilts is actually my invention and went pretty viral in some really big local biker circles here and elsewhere ...

It's fascinating (for me at least) to get to the bottom of why a Duke rider would buy a Adv.

This discussion itself has thrown up new perspectives (from Jaggu) and that's what's great about sharing your own opinions on forums such as these versus simply saying Oh he said that or So many people have done or believe that.

At least that's what keeps me active (at least as a reader) here.

Cheers, Doc

[nasirkaka]

Some interesting discussions!

It all boils down to:

EXPECTATION: I guess we expected more from the 390A. Especially as they took really long time developing it. In its present avataar, its definitely much more all terrain touring friendly then the Duke, but again, not very far from it either. Hence reviews such as fortnine or tags like duke on stilts.
390 adv is what we wanted to mod our dukes into, and some of us like Urban_Nomad came pretty close as well. But as KTM with huge off-road pedigree, we expected the 390A to be more...

* Purpose built/tuned/geared engine - was hoping for the engine to be tuned differently and more suitable for low end torque, Maybe geared differently. 390 engine platform is best suited for duke and RC with its high revving and high strung nature. Plonking the same onto 390A was not the wisest decision from user point. Off road, i have seen 390A stalling at critical moments or popping wheelie when revved a bit, not much forgiving for an armature enthusiast, a category most of us belong to. Bikes like versys and ninja may share same engine, but are tuned differently for their respective purpose.
* 855mm of seat height is tall for most by Indian standards. There is increase of seat height by 25mm when compared to duke, but there is only 15mm increase in ground clearance. Not sure where the 10mm went, but if included in the GC would have made much difference.
* Suspension - least they could have done is offered as optional at some extra cost, like how the ABS was offered on initial lot cbr 250.This is something which many are miffed about. I also felt the suspension to be on the stiffer side for rocky trails.
* Ergos - the overall posture felt more towards sporty. I would have preferred a slight more upright-ish torso upwards, and a slightly more forward and lowered footrest. And yes, that forward angled pegs do make a difference. All in all, not very much different from the Duke. Visually it may appear so, by as the seat height is 25mm more, which raises one of the points of riding geometry triangle. Riding a stock 390A and riding a stock Himalayan would immediately bring out the difference in ergos.
* Dedicated ABS on off button would have been helpful. console re-setting when the bike stalls is another concern, not sure if there is way to negate that.
* small things like increasing tank capacity by a liter compared to duke. Could have increase a liter or two more.

ACCEPTANCE: There aren't too many offering in adv category presently hence 390A still works as a good jack of all bike. Many of us have accepted that and are happily riding.
* xpulse is purpose built and would be great tool off the road, but boing on road.
* Himalayan is good in its own way but would be no match to 390 A for its highway manners and power delivery.
* 310gs feels under-powered in comparison and expensive too.

I am sure KTM would have done their homework well interms of product definition and placement basis present market, and and have shown only the required cards. They will definitely have more cards hidden in their sleeve and throw it at the right time.

[ebonho]

The reason why the ground clearance of the Adv is less than inspiring is because it is essentially a Duke on stilts, with the rear bodywork and platform/nonscooped-stepped saddle taking up height, while the more elaborate bashplate takes up underbody real estate.

My first reaction when I saw the Adv in front of me in the flesh was ya it's big, but where is the so called famous ground clearance?

To my naked eye I could barely make out anything.

Do you know what 1.5 cm is in rocky terrain? In the real world away from spec sheets?

It's nothing. It's the difference between hitting a rock a few degrees tilted versus not hitting it. That's it.

Or if you did hit it, the same rock gouging out a dented furrow that deep in your bashplate.

Cheers, Doc

[Red Liner]

Anywho back to regular programming from folks who do way too much of observational study.

No, that wasn't the only time i fell.

https://youtu.be/ZJky0wQ14vs

Traction control was the culprit along with the distraction of people ambling about the trail. Great fun though

Hey doc, your duke 390 did the whole trail too, unscathed.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Hey doc, your duke 390 did the whole trail too, unscathed.

Personally from what I've seen from some of your trail riding videos bro, you guys are giving a bit too much respect to the trail.

Give it some gas and trust the bike.

The worst that can happen is you'll fall anyways.

Cheers, Doc

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Personally from what I've seen from some of your trail riding videos bro, you guys are giving a bit too much respect to the trail.

Give it some gas and trust the bike.

The worst that can happen is you'll fall anyways.

Cheers, Doc

Middle aged bruh, bones take longer to heal. Skills arrive in good time

Have started riding trails just since March this year.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Middle aged bruh, bones take longer to heal. Skills arrive in good time

Have started riding trails just since March this year.

True. Painful they are.

But there's this thing called gyroscopic forces that seem to help positively with traction.

As in the more gas you give, the better help the momentum is to your bike doing its stuff, as long as you let it.

Slushy fields without rocks to practice in help for sure.

Cheers, Doc

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ebonho

True. Painful they are.

But there's this thing called gyroscopic forces that seem to help positively with traction.

As in the more gas you give, the better help the momentum is to your bike doing its stuff, as long as you let it.

Slushy fields without rocks to practice in help for sure.

Cheers, Doc

Yeah. You should join us on the dirt skills thread. Good discussions there. For now, i have been practicing body balance, one finger clutch control, attack position... Until it gets to be second nature. Practice practice practice... And new dirt protection gear too

[nitro.1000bhp]

Originally Posted by ebonho

The reason why the ground clearance of the Adv is less than inspiring is because it is essentially a Duke on stilts, with the rear bodywork and platform/nonscooped-stepped saddle taking up height, while the more elaborate bashplate takes up underbody real estate.

My first reaction when I saw the Adv in front of me in the flesh was ya it's big, but where is the so called famous ground clearance?

To my naked eye I could barely make out anything.

Do you know what 1.5 cm is in rocky terrain? In the real world away from spec sheets?

It's nothing. It's the difference between hitting a rock a few degrees tilted versus not hitting it. That's it.

Or if you did hit it, the same rock gouging out a dented furrow that deep in your bashplate.

Cheers, Doc

I am in the same boat as you ebonho. Like you, I too have a first gen d390 and also an impluzma. I was hoping the adv would mash the two into one usable bike but it was not to be. I was disappointed in that I was expecting the adv to be more of a travel enduro on the lines of a 500exc than this 'duke on stilts' . Trouble is the goddamn TN govt has laid butter smooth roads everywhere including deep inside some villages and we have to travel 500 odd Kms in any direction before we can spot some dirt! The impulse hates highways and I was hoping the adv 390 would fill the gap. Thought really hard, and went for a test ride but I came out unimpressed. Like you said..it doesn't offer much more than the duke already does.

So as an alternative I have decided to get a used Tata winger for less than the price of a new 390 adv, dump my impulse along with some gear and a few mates and just go out seeking those elusive trails in air-conditioned comfort. Oh , and have some spare change left to get my impulse back to shape.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by nitro.1000bhp

So as an alternative I have decided to get a used Tata winger for less than the price of a new 390 adv, dump my impulse along with some gear and a few mates and just go out seeking those elusive trails in air-conditioned comfort. Oh , and have some spare change left to get my impulse back to shape.

What a brilliant desi idea sirji. Hats off!

My entire group of old buddies here have in the lockdown put their BIC spec track bikes into hibernation and bought these hyper sexy KTM and Suzuki and Yamaha and Husky dirt machines.

The kind you service by hours of use and not Kms.

And they've bought swanky Tata Xenons to ferry them in to dirt farms for hooliganism.

Some very serious riders too. Training for Dakar.



Sorry for the OT but Impulses are there too, doing quite well. I'm trying to get a friend to buy a used Adv and strip it off its front beak and the tank shrouds and make it into a dirt spec hardcore machine to go up against the 350 and 450 KTM thoroughbreds on the cheap.

Let's see ....

Cheers, Doc