[nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Unfortunately even after putting out logical reasoning, some people remain deadbeat about their foregone conclusions. I have ridden a first gen duke and now i bought this adventure, and every single thing about the two bikes are night and day. And i have owned both bikes for almost the same mileage so far. And another dude above has used the new gen 390 and got the adventure and says the same.

But no, we will listen to some guy pandering stuff to a western audience, and two fat old guys sitting on camping chairs sipping god knows what offering a discourse on how they need long travel suspension and a 21 inch front wheel to even mention the word offroad. Lol!

I agree. Moreover, I can't help but assume that they're simply reiterating Ryan F9's opinion rather than having the guts to give their own honest verdict. So much for praise of white skinned opinion.

Before Ryan's video, never ever did I see reviewers pondering on the Duke 390 > Adv 390 argument. But since Ryan F9, it seems the world (Indians) are following it blindly.

Sad state of affairs.

Regardless, Powerdrift isn't 100% honest. They're giving luxuries media packages by bike manufacturers, especially KTM.

[Vasuki]

To be fair to the reviewers from PD, they had clearly mentioned that the Adv 390 is more for the experts, for novice/normal riders Xpulse or Himalayan would be much better.

I think the game changer would be if Himalayan comes with a 650cc version.

ps : totally ot, it is inherent that the owners of a particular bike would definetely support/defend it come what may, heck I fight for multi against the big daddy GS

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I have ridden a first gen duke and now i bought this adventure

Just adding my bit.

I've had the Gen 1 Duke 390 with me for a while when a friend was out of the country and I've also ridden the 2019 Iteration of a friend and fellow enthusiast.

Forget the ADV, comparing both iterations of the Duke itself would give the contrast of Day and Night. The power delivery and refinement alone are enough to make both iterations stand apart from each other.

So just for the sake of fair comparison it'd be best to limit the Duke to the latest iteration when measuring it against the ADV390.

P.S. I know Redliner has mentioned of his friends comparison, just though of mentioning the above anyhow.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

P.S. I know Redliner has mentioned of his friends comparison, just though of mentioning the above anyhow.

The friend comparison is RB2399 man, his post is just a page away. Check it out, he nails it.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

To be fair to the reviewers from PD, they had clearly mentioned that the Adv 390 is more for the experts, for novice/normal riders Xpulse or Himalayan would be much better.

This had me doing a double take. I mean I can understand them recommending a himalayan over a adv390 because it may be a relatively easier motorcycle to ride on dirt. But implying the duke as a friendlier alternative to an adv390 for dirt use is laughable.

The real question though is: How true is it that the 390adv needs experience to handle it while a himalayan doesn't?

Yeah, the Himalayan has easy torque down low and can just chug along with minimum effort at a slow pace and low revs over a wide range of dirt surfaces. But there's enough power there to make mistakes if you're not careful with the accelerator. The 200+ kg wet weight also makes it a more difficult bike to handle, and can potentially amplify the consequences of mistakes.

The adv390 seems to be the more forgiving bike because it weighs about 25 kgs lesser and also has traction control restraining the power it makes (something that's missing on the himalayan and the duke). How much trouble can a newbie get into with TC on?

[Vasuki]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

This had me doing a double take. I mean I can understand them recommending a himalayan over a adv390 because it may be a relatively easier motorcycle to ride on dirt. But implying the duke as a friendlier alternative to an adv390 for dirt use is laughable.

As far IRC, they did not say duke 390 is better than Adv 390 in dirt/offroad. They had compared it to Xpulse/Himalayan. I stated the same.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

To be fair to the reviewers from PD, they had clearly mentioned that the Adv 390 is more for the experts, for novice/normal riders Xpulse or Himalayan would be much better....

I think their call out is very clear with respect to each of the 3 bikes. They said very clearly that 390 Adv would have been their pick if the bike had an adjustable suspension.

Off-topic:

Originally Posted by Vasuki

... think the game changer would be if Himalayan comes with a 650cc version...

This is something I really looking forward to. Another one is the Adv from Honda. The scene will really heat up with these two.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by Vasuki

As far IRC, they did not say duke 390 is better than Adv 390 in dirt/offroad. They had compared it to Xpulse/Himalayan. I stated the same.

In that case, their final conclusion of "duke 390 best" excludes dirt usage and you'd have to spend 1.5 - 2.5 L more to buy an xpulse or himalayan separately... AFTER they tell you all about how far you can tour with the 50k you save in buying a duke rather than an adv.

They've got charisma... wish there was some logic there too.

[shyamg28]

Reading all the comments for and against the bike basis the video, I honestly feel like objectivity is lost.

My opinion was that it was a brilliantly put together video of the ADV390 vs the two other major players, almost everyone has been contemplating against (ok at least in my friend circle).

There was a clear justification/reasoning provided for the lack of front end feel. There was a justification for its touring capability. And plenty more opinions backed by facts and logical reasoning as to why it would be so. They even went spoke about ease of commuting on a tall motorcycle.

What we like to perceive as conclusion at the end of every review is to me, oversimplification. It's never a yes or no answer. Some choose a bike with their head and some with their heart. There itself you have a distinction which, from what I've noticed, neither party seems able to accept

Before Karthikeya cuts Shumi off, you can hear Shumi clearly stating that what you choose would be a combination of where you are at, in terms of budget, skill and requirement. No where did I interpret anyone saying that the Himalayan, XPulse or the Duke390, is better than the ADV. My 2 cents.

As a current owner of Himalayan, I see tremendous value in the ADV390, simply because I almost exclusively tour with a pillion (and we don't need to bring up the Himalayan's highway manners again).
If I was to tour alone, and had never owned a Himalayan, I might've blindly gone for the Duke390. But the Himalayan's comfort and suspension has me spoilt. I don't see anyway for me to even think of buying a Duke.

Now why I stated the above is, to provide one opinion based on my requirements. While I may not upgrade anytime soon, I watched the entire video coming out with a clear winner in the ADV390, and this is important, for my requirements. Heck, if it is a Duke on stilts, so be it. It still kicks ass!

Throwing shade on Auto journalists stands in poor taste for me personally. I'm not talking of influencers, who get paid to advertise, which is fine too as long as you have your integrity, but journalists who, from what I've been given to understand, work quite hard in bringing out as unbiased an opinion as possible. I'm a Shumi fanboy (exaggeration of course), I guess that much is clear by now.

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[ebonho]

Originally Posted by ashwinprakas

So just for the sake of fair comparison it'd be best to limit the Duke to the latest iteration when measuring it against the ADV390..

Absolutely agree. In the real world, for someone looking at a new bike comparo, you would need to compare two bikes you can still buy. Not one that is no longer available new.

But if you bring used bike market into the picture, and old gen 390s with barely 20-30,000 km on the clock going at 1-1.25 lacs here in Poona, then the equation radically changes.

And then you have a segment of the market that every manufacturer aims for in terms of brand loyalty (and ratification) ... repeat buyers like rb2399 and Jaggu.

To me personally, the Adv felt much better to ride than the new 390.

And yes, neither of them is the old 390. Remotely.

Cheers, Doc

[nitro.1000bhp]

Unfortunately, bikers the world over never seem to be in agreement about which bike or style of riding is the best and there isn't one either. Off-roaders think they're the best and road warriors think they're all Rossi's cousin and Harley riders think everyone else are squids with a death wish and the rest unanimously slate Harley riders.

There is no reason to get all defensive about your bike or style or.. maybe there is. Either way life will move on and something better will keep coming up and there will always be a bunch that may agree or disagree with your choice of bike. People will continue to have opinions..take it with a pinch of salt, just go out for a ride and have fun.

[TuxDiesel]

I've owned a Himalayan for about 4 years. And my usage is mostly travelling. I tend to spend more time on the highway. Typical one way would be 250 - 400 KMs on the highway, 100 KMs on state highways, 50 KMs on bad roads, and 10 - 5 KMs on dirt roads. There were few weekend trail rides, But out of 70,000 KMs on the ODO over 4 years, this would amount to a minuscule 2% (just a rough estimation)

The Following were a few key deciding points for picking up a KTM 390 ADV.
1. Chassis is super sharp and responsive. I didn't know how much of a difference a chassis design makes until I rode a 310GS and my Himalayan back to back. This really enhances the experience of 'motorcycling'.

2. Better braking experience. And with C-ABS & MTC, I hope it helps when it is really needed.

3. Alloy wheels: After experiencing scary punctures on the highway at high speeds in the Himalayan, I'll gladly switch to tubeless tires.

4. Reliability: My Himalayan was from the initial batches. So my issues were from engine oil leakage, stator coil burning out, clutch burning out, swing arm cracks, rear mono-shock failure, engine head failure, gear shaft failure, wiring harness failure, headlight doom breakage, wheel bearing failures, and handlebar T-Stem bearings rusting. It took me multiple visits to the service centres and about 4 years to fix most of these issues. More than the time spent in the I really hope KTM would give me a better experience.

5. Power Delivery: Even though I like the simplicity of the carburettor and the fun/satisfaction of tuning it, 390's throttle response is amazing. On the highway, the power is always available and on trails, the precise throttling keeps it under check.

6. Suspension: Himalayan has longer but softer suspension. KTM is shorter, stiffer and the rebound seems to be more progressive and controlled. After a few weeks, I prefer the KTM's suspension setup.

My wife also enjoys travelling on the motorcycle. So our garage had a Mojo and a Himalayan. When we decided to buy the 390 ADV, we sold the Mojo. The point is that Himalayan is not a bad motorcycle, it's just that the 390 ADV does it better. We might pick up another 390 ADV (or 490 ADV? ) soon to replace the Himalayan.

This is my current opinion (subject to change) : If your needs are similar to what I described above and If you can afford the KTM 390 ADV, pick it up. Or if your budget allows for a Himalayan, then get a Himalayan.

In the Power Drift video, I really appreciate that they tried to distinguish between what is 'off-road' and what is 'fire roads or dirt roads'. And a do-it-all motorcycle is not going to do anything perfect as it is a compromise.
Duke - Commute in the city; Weekend highway runs; Travel albeit longer time on saddle would be physically challenging (for me). My friend brings the Duke to most of the trails, it is possible.
390 ADV - Commute; Weekend highway runs; Travel; Light Trails;
Himalayan - Commute; Weekend Highway runs; Travel; Light Trails;
100cc Splendor / FZ - Commute; Weekend Highway runs; Travel; Light Trails;

Question is, are you willing to pay for that experience ? Do you think it is worth it in your context? I think, Thats what Schumi was trying to get at. But Karthick seemed to echo the popular opinion and amateurish for an 'auto journalist'.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by shyamg28

My opinion was that it was a brilliantly put together video of the ADV390 vs the two other major players, almost everyone has been contemplating against (ok at least in my friend circle).

What we like to perceive as conclusion at the end of every review is to me, oversimplification. It's never a yes or no answer. Some choose a bike with their head and some with their heart. There itself you have a distinction which, from what I've noticed, neither party seems able to accept

journalists ... work quite hard in bringing out as unbiased an opinion as possible.

Hey, I like Shumi too and the touch of maturity he usually brings. Kartikeya is ok too. But the review seemed like a bunch of contradictory statements to me. Here's some more examples:

You have Shumi praising the duke for being a bike that you have to work to ride and can't be lazy with. And then later, he says he prefers an easy peasy himalayan over the adv 390 on the dirt because the adv apparently makes you work too much or something. He claims it takes more skill to handle it offroad, but doesn't show or say exactly why... AND not a word was said about the noob friendly TC feature when he would have been just the right guy to test how well it works. TC would make offroading more accessible and bypass a bit of the learning curve after all.

Karthikeya claimed the lack of adjustable suspension holds the bike back from being a good tourer, yet the same guy apparently doesn't mind the stiffer suspension of the duke for highway use. He also never actually demonstrates why the present bike is not good enough for whatever "adventure" riding he wants which would then require the adv390 to come with bigger wheels, adjustable suspension, more travel and GC and maybe wings too.

On the other hand, the review Red Liner posted on the previous page (very informative BTW) went into practical testing of the bike for its intended purpose and even tried to see where the limits of its capabilities are. It showed the bike as able to hold it's own decent enough in comparison to bigger adventure bikes and excel in specific areas too. Advantages were acknowledged with reasons. Problems and potential issues were discussed and suggestions to solve them were made. The discomfort in the standing position was mentioned and an alternative to stand up riding was suggested (instead of putting down the whole bike in favor of a duke). And the guy was very enthusiastic about the potential for new riders to be introduced to "adventure" riding through the adv390.

I don't want to compare and bad mouth, but the utility and information obtained for a viewer is just a lot more when experienced people jump into actually testing a bike for what it is rather than lamenting their broken dreams for the bike and plugging their wishlist one more time (unbiased much?).

I just want something like the latter review from an indian point of view.

[shyamg28]

Originally Posted by TuxDiesel

...100cc Splendor / FZ - Commute; Weekend Highway runs; Travel; Light Trails;
Question is, are you willing to pay for that experience ? Do you think it is worth it in your context?

This is an interpretation I agree with.

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

You have Shumi praising the duke for being a bike that you have to work to ride and can't be lazy with. And then later, he says he prefers an easy peasy himalayan over the adv 390 on the dirt because the adv apparently makes you work too much or something. He claims it takes more skill to handle it offroad, but doesn't show or say exactly why... AND not a word was said about the noob friendly TC feature when he would have been just the right guy to test how well it works. TC would make offroading more accessible and bypass a bit of the learning curve after all.

I can't claim to understand real world benefits of TC without having ever ridden on a bike that has it. Here I would like to take two guesses as to the contradictory statements -
1.Lack of low-end torque: this is well documented everywhere. Again, I can't claim to speak from experience about the ADV. The Himalayan though, is quite easy on trails. I may not have done the toughest of them, but the bike treads along nicely when you stand and do some basics right. The TC from what I understand, cuts off power to the rear wheel. I did see Red Liner's video on TC and was impressed, but I can see it requires a "trust" factor.
2. Lack of off-road experience: both reviewers I would think, are more about real world experiences than off road. Here I wish we had some dedicated off road riders pitch in because Shumi clearly states fear kept him away from the ADV, off the road.

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Karthikeya claimed the lack of adjustable suspension holds the bike back from being a good tourer, yet the same guy apparently doesn't mind the stiffer suspension of the duke for highway use. He also never actually demonstrates why the present bike is not good enough for whatever "adventure" riding he wants which would then require the adv390 to come with bigger wheels, adjustable suspension, more travel and GC and maybe wings too.

Karthikeya started off by saying his friends who own the Duke 390 are asking him if they should upgrade to the ADV. I treated this as a pre-requisite for all his consequent statements. Also, there is a sense of "what could've been" rather than what is. And that also echoes the sentiments of so many others from what I've been reading and seeing. He ended by saying that he was ready to pay 1 lac over the Duke, if it had adjustable suspension and bigger tyres. I interpret that as, "I have a Duke that can do 70, maybe 80% of this, so the upgrade is not worth it". Where have we heard that before?

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

I don't want to compare and bad mouth, but the utility and information obtained for a viewer is just a lot more when experienced people jump into actually testing a bike for what it is rather than lamenting their broken dreams for the bike and plugging their wishlist one more time (unbiased much?).
I just want something like the latter review from an indian point of view.

Cent percent agree with you! Which is why I think we shouldn't limit our research to 1 or 2 videos, and give an individual or one opinion, too much importance. I love the threads here just because there's a variety of opinions that can help in a decision making process.

I fear I've treaded into the "keyboard racing" fraternity

End of the day, test it out yourself. If it appeals to you, no motorcycling god should stop you from getting it. This is my version of the truth

[neil.jericho]

I was flipping through the July edition of the Evo magazine and they had a "feature" article on the Xpulse vs Himalayan vs Adv 390. On the KTM offering, they mentioned a few things
- On technical trails, it cannot keep up with the other two.
- Traction control has a mind of its own. This was reported at the launch rides as well.
- Suspension bottoms out due to 170mm travel.
- Bash plate keeps scrubbing over tiny boulders.

Has KTM managed to fix the TC issues in the latest batch of the Adv 390? Also, do members here face issues with the suspension bottoming out?