[Sebring]

For those of us unfamiliar with the Honda approach to business, let me tell you one thing; the Company never aspires to be a pioneer. They enter a field, already ploughed and ready for crop season - then come in with their smooth, vibe free offerings (Doing one up over the competition, in terms of features). Trust me when I say that Honda was ready, eons ago. Now the market needs to get ready

Originally Posted by rajshenoy

Honda lost an opportunity here in the process of "I launched before you". They are still not ready and I feel they preponed this launch atleast a year in advance.

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by Sebring

For those of us unfamiliar with the Honda approach to business, let me tell you one thing; the Company never aspires to be a pioneer. They enter a field, already ploughed and ready for crop season - then come in with their smooth, vibe free offerings (Doing one up over the competition, in terms of features). Trust me when I say that Honda was ready eons ago. Now the market needs to get ready

No offense, I never doubted Honda quality and refinement and ready to bet my money even without a test ride. However motorcycle in this category is not just for commuting and has bit of aspirations too. What I meant was the lack of Eco system that comes along with such motorcycle. Jawa and Benelli too tried and failed. Honda has better chance and I hope they do in the interest of market in general. Already we can see people expecting no vibes from future RE

[Sebring]

They're taking baby steps, Bro. And frankly that's the way to grow. Foundations are really important. This is the NEXA experience for bikes. To put things in perspective, Siddhartha Lal took over RE in the year 2000, thereabouts. We could not see transformations until about a decade later. Hopefully, Honda will cover major geographical areas/eco systems quickly, by March 2021. The 'premium-ness' is vital in BigWing strategy

Originally Posted by rajshenoy

What I meant was the lack of Eco system that comes along with such motorcycle. Jawa and Benelli too tried and failed. Honda has better chance and I hope they do in the interest of market in general.

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by Sebring

For those of us unfamiliar with the Honda approach to business, let me tell you one thing; the Company never aspires to be a pioneer. They enter a field, already ploughed and ready for crop season - then come in with their smooth, vibe free offerings (Doing one up over the competition, in terms of features). Trust me when I say that Honda was ready, eons ago. Now the market needs to get ready

Honda's refinement and ease of use products is undisputed. But I do not agree with this statement of yours -

the Company never aspires to be a pioneer

No company would want to play second fiddle to another. Honda's entry into RE's territory is definitely an attempt to disrupt it's sales and hopefully gain a bit of market share.
I would've agreed with you had you mentioned that they were keeping realistic targets and not trying to be the market leader from the get go but, I don't agree to the fact that they never wish to be a pioneer.

Trust me when I say that Honda was ready, eons ago. Now the market needs to get ready

My prediction is, they will revisit their goofed up strategy and the CB will be made available in the normal Honda dealerships as well in the near future. It definitely deserves more sales.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Sebring

They're taking baby steps, Bro. And frankly that's the way to grow. Foundations are really important. This is the NEXA experience for bikes. To put things in perspective, Siddhartha Lal took over RE in the year 2000, thereabouts. We could not see transformations until about a decade later. Hopefully, Honda will cover major geographical areas/eco systems quickly, by March 2021. The 'premium-ness' is vital in BigWing strategy

Excellent point.

RE grew not by eco system but by perception management.

Keep churning out new engines and make the 30+ aspirational corporate types heading into middle age believe that quality, performance and finesse is actually improving with every step.

The rest is managed by the RE Band of Brother-hood and sheer embarrassment that prevents most RE owners from making their blown engines, broken bikes and fallen off parts public on the internet.

Case study for the MBAs.

Cheers, Doc

[Sebring]

Pioneer, in terms of being a 'first mover'. Then they dominate that space. Anyways, let them learn from mistakes, if any. Cheers

Originally Posted by Porschefire

I would've agreed with you had you mentioned that they were keeping realistic targets and not trying to be the market leader from the get go but, I don't agree to the fact that they never wish to be a pioneer.

[texmonster]

Overdrive Comparo is also out. Should be interesting to watch as unlike other media, they have pitted CB350 against not only Meteor, but also the Classic 350

https://youtu.be/Ui23CwAzlQo

[HEMAN28]

In Maharashtra there are only 3 cities that have BigWing Dealerships. Kohlapur, Mumbai and Thane. Nothing even close to Nagpur.

[karanddd]

Honda is essentially printing cash selling Civics and Accords in North America. Whether a 350cc bike sells well in India is not a big concern for them. For Royal Enfield the success of this new generation of bikes is essential to their very existence as a company. Of course RE is going to put in a little more effort than Honda, whereas the latter, a true global giant, will be inclined to half-ass things out here. In Western markets Hondas have the reputation for being smooth, trouble free, but also kind of staid and boring ("you meet the nicest people on a Honda" vibe). And to me, no offence to anyone, the CB feels exactly like that, smooth, fuss-free, but kind of characterless and dull. It'll be interesting to see whether these bikes can appeal to the Classic 350 rider, who appears to pick character above all. More likely it'll sell to a lot of practically inclined folks who have so far stayed clear of RE, despite always having fancied the style.

[bangaloreguy]

Originally Posted by karanddd

Honda is essentially printing cash selling Civics and Accords in North America. Whether a 350cc bike sells well in India is not a big concern for them. For Royal Enfield the success of this new generation of bikes is essential to their very existence as a company. Of course RE is going to put in a little more effort than Honda, whereas the latter, a true global giant, will be inclined to half-ass things out here. In Western markets Hondas have the reputation for being smooth, trouble free, but also kind of staid and boring ("you meet the nicest people on a Honda" vibe). And to me, no offence to anyone, the CB feels exactly like that, smooth, fuss-free, but kind of characterless and dull. It'll be interesting to see whether these bikes can appeal to the Classic 350 rider, who appears to pick character above all. More likely it'll sell to a lot of practically inclined folks who have so far stayed clear of RE, despite always having fancied the style.

Very well said. It lacks character. Honda could have used their decades of experience to bring out something better and more original like their Rebel series. They ended up looking like they are trying to copy a few bits. I think the people who will be buying the CB would not have cared if it had a RE like sound as the reliability and practicality matters more for the Honda buyer. No offence to anyone. I love the Honda brand but was disappointed with the CB350 styling. I think the Meteor is far ahead in overall presence and style.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by bangaloreguy

CB350 styling

Which is probably the biggest issue, more than even BigWing network or the H'ness name. Seeing the comparison videos - the Honda 350 looks more commuter than others. This was the initial impressions for me, which is again the feeling when seeing these videos.

Styling would be the primary reason for me not to consider the H'ness.

[Sebring]

Such a massive tear down of a Global Brand like Honda is not required, in my opinion. If, as per you, the mainstay of Honda is cars - what's the mainstay of Eicher Motors? Trucks or bikes? So why should they care more! Believe me these days no company has cash to burn on pointless expeditions, more so Honda. This is a very important product for them, and they're spending millions on BigWing dealerships and infrastructure (From scratch). By calling the CB350 characterless and dull, you are insulting the choices the few of us have shown in selecting this bike. Pray, which bike is full of character and is exciting - and will make the cut at 1.85 Lakh? Select one model from any global brand, and let us know. You picked up an RE, few will choose the CB350 - it's as simple as that. After all it's an open marketplace out there. And may the better product win.

Originally Posted by karanddd

Honda is essentially printing cash selling Civics and Accords in North America. Whether a 350cc bike sells well in India is not a big concern for them. For Royal Enfield the success of this new generation of bikes is essential to their very existence as a company. Of course RE is going to put in a little more effort than Honda, whereas the latter, a true global giant, will be inclined to half-ass things out here. In Western markets Hondas have the reputation for being smooth, trouble free, but also kind of staid and boring ("you meet the nicest people on a Honda" vibe). And to me, no offence to anyone, the CB feels exactly like that, smooth, fuss-free, but kind of characterless and dull. It'll be interesting to see whether these bikes can appeal to the Classic 350 rider, who appears to pick character above all. More likely it'll sell to a lot of practically inclined folks who have so far stayed clear of RE, despite always having fancied the style.

[tchsvy]

Each and every Honda bike here or internationally is the friendliest and easiest bike to ride in its segment. That's how Honda wanted them to be. Easy to ride and predictable. There's of course other way to describe them, 'lacking character'. Before purchasing my first bike, a Honda Unicorn, back in 2005, I did a bit of online research, and I remember one review in particular, where the Uni was compared with Pulsar and some other 150CC motorcycle, at the end of the review the reviewer said something similar to: 'the Honda is boring to ride, but at the end of the day, we all fought for its keys'. To each his own, but there is certain charm to these easy riding motorcycles.

As far as photos and videos go, they do not do justice to the CB350, it looks small and too commuterish in the photos, agreed it doesn't look as macho as the Classic 350, but in person, it looks much better than in the pics, IMHO.

[jaganm]

I took delivery of my matte black and grey CB350 yesterday. I'm coming from a FZ25 which I mainly used for touring and wanted a bit more performance at the high end. The CB350 wasn't my ideal choice, but will do for the next year or so while more options arrive in the market.

I have had just one ride to the airport and back. I definitely feel it is an upgrade from what I had. It can sustain higher speeds for longer (100 was extremely comfortable and I felt that there was enough performance on tap to go higher). I like the fact that it has ABS, a slipper clutch, traction control which didnt bother me on my yamaha but I'm sure will be useful in the future sometime. I bought it for the looks and the style of riding, which I feel suits me and my personality better. My wife approved as well as she was able to sit comfortably unlike the FZ where it felt like she was on the mezzanine floor.

But, its not perfect. I think some of it is just time getting used to the bike, but these are still points. The suspension is a bit too stiff for my liking. Also, I felt that the seat could be better. In both these, my Yamaha is top notch, I have done many 500km days without feeling the worse for wear.

Overall, I'll give it a 8/10. They have built a beautiful bike which will give excellent service and meet the riding needs of 90% of the population.

I still havent decided what to do with my Yamaha. I love that bike and given that I already bought it used, the resale is going to be shot anyway. So, I am leaning towards keeping it as a spare bike, something that friends can borrow when we do a group ride.

[rahul4321]

Not sure why Dull and devoid of Character would be an insult.

Back when I was in the market for a 250 CC motorcycle, I rode the Duke 200, 250 and the 390 as well as the the Honda CBR 250 extensively which a friend owned as well as at a showroom.

Let me talk about the Honda first; the bike was wheeled out of the showroom for me (they didnt have a dedicated test ride bike) and fired up. As soon as I got onto the motorcycle, engaged the clutch and accelerated away - I felt the Honda Engine go "purr" as the Revs climbed higher. 2nd gear, 3rd gear and more throttle - the roar of the engine increased in volume - but the noise was never loud or harsh. The "Purring" became more pronounced as I crossed to higher RPM's and sped up but it was always still a "Purr" and never a "Snarl". The acceleration was always linear but never frantic.

At a traffic signal - the motorcycle was so silent that I wasnt even sure that the engine was running. The Clutch and the Gear Engagement was butter smooth and had robotic precision. There was never a half-locked clutch or a nasty "thunk" while downshifting or even an upshift/downshift caught between two gears.

The Suspension - Very Soft and supple. It was comfortable, predictable but didnt give me enough feedback on the type of surface I was travelling on. The handlebars too did not transmit the changes in road surfaces to my hands.

Long Story Short- The CBR was a meticulously crafted Japanese Robot which did what it was supposed to do with absolute pin point precision. However, it lacked something which I will come to when I test drove the KTM's

The KTM's - I test drove the KTM's and came back with the following feedback

(a) The Engine: The KTM's were quite silent at Idle (not as much as the Honda) but the moment you went up the RPM range or at higher speeds, the engine would change its nature from the puttering sound to a snarl. The acceleration was in no way as linear as the Honda. Throttle opening and closing made the bike jerk around and if you were not careful - the sudden opening of a throttle could make the rear wheel spin or go sideways. The motorcycle also heated up at traffic signals and the 390 especially would throw out hot air directly into the rider's legs. It was an exciting thought initially - the fact that I had to always caress the throttle or it would throw me off ; a temperamental girlfriend if you will.

(b) The Suspension: The bikes had a rock hard suspension which made me aware of every smallest undulation, pebble, crack in the road or even the tiniest of bumps. My butt and my hands knew exactly what sort of road surface we were riding on and the feedback it gave me was excellent. The Honda's Suspension was made-for-all in terms of giving it the best of all worlds in terms of comfort, feedback and travel. The KTM on the other hand had a suspension which only was made to give the rider feedback. The Comfort and Travel were not even on the Menu


(c) The Clutch and Gearbox - The KTM's with all its tech-loaded (especially the 390 with the Slipper Clutch) were still no contest for the smooth and absolutely hot-knife-through-melted-butter clutch and gearbox combination of the Honda. There were no false neutrals on the KTM but the Clutch Closing and Opening combined with the Throttle Position could either make or break you. There was no familiarity, no ability to predict or even no linearity in how the KTM's Clutch, Gearbox, Acceleration and Brakes operated vis-a-vis the Honda's Clutch, Gearbox, Acceleration and Brakes. And I am talking about all 3 KTM's - not just the 390

All in all - what I'm trying to say is when I was in bed thinking of which motorcycle to buy (a) the super friendly Honda which would never scare me, whose behavior I could always predict, whose suspension would always comfort me despite whatever road conditions I was on and whose engine would always be ultra-reliable or (b) the KTM's which snarl and rebuke me at the slightest of mistakes, which would handle like it was on rails but which would also make me suffer everytime the road conditions deteriorated slightly, which would give my internal organs a jolt everytime I accelerated hard or braked hard. But all in all - would just ask me to treat it with caution or else it would make me pay for my mistakes.

The KTM will never act like a Honda and will never be one as its character is not that of a Honda in terms of the smooth non-fussy way a Honda goes about its job with full reliability, familiarity, linearity and loyalty. But do these attributes make a bike devoid of character? Thats what the question is.

What did I do - I bought a KTM 390 as I wanted a bike which would not only keep my hands and feet busy but also my brain (or it turns into a devils workshop)

With the KTM - I HAVE to think in advance about how the motorcycle will react before I do anything at high speeds or I may be sharply rebuked.

With the Honda - I don't have to do so. It is a very forgiving, friendly motorcycle.

However, I have suggested the Honda CBR 250 to two of my friends who purchased it in 2017 because they needed a bike for long distance touring which they could trust and it would keep delivering day in - day out.

As of 2020 - They are very happy with their steeds and I ride with them a couple of times a year and whenever we exchange bikes, as I am approaching my 40's - I feel that in my life, I don't need so many attention-seeking hot heads around me but I need more predictability, friends and loyalty.

Never say Never.