[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

Actually it’s a shame that we don’t get the big Monster 1200 in India. That bike is an absolute hoot with its huge V-Twin that sounds sweet and pulls like a truck. In any case, at the very least, the 821 should make your list. Monsters are super fun; and at under 8 or 9 lacs, they are a great value in the used market.

I think a preowned Monster 821 is a bit of a hard sell to buyers looking for value or a bargain. Its direct competition, the Kawasaki Z800 / 900, the Triumph Street Triple 675 / 765 etc are much more affordable and you dont have the eventual bank busting desmo service to worry about.

To most buyers looking for good deals, between getting both a pre owned 2015 Triumph 675 (say around Rs 5.25L) and a brand new Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 (Rs 3.2L) for the price of one Ducati Monster 821, the former will definitely be a lot more attractive. Or maybe a Z800 and a BS4 KTM Duke 390. This is just illustrative of course, there are different permutations and combinations that are very appealing if one has a Rs 9L budget. Also, one can get a BS4 Ninja 1000 for around Rs 9L as well and that is from a different level altogether.

Originally Posted by srikanth.vemuri

Do the premium segment bikes depreciate slower than the others? For instance, 2016 Versys 650 seems to have retained more value (in % terms) than a 2017 Duke 390.
The used market for bikes seems to have different dynamics than that of cars. Harder to find steals in the upper segments in bikes compared to cars (my experience browsing classifieds indicates the same).

Honestly, it all comes down to whether or not someone is willing to shell out above expected prices or not and how long the seller is ready to wait till he / she gets such a buyer. If you look at the earliest officially imported liter class bikes like the Yamaha R1 and the Honda Fireblade, owners are expecting marginal depreciation considering that the bikes are 10 years old! Some brands hold value better (Kawasaki) than others. The problem of actual value is compounded by dealers buying and flipping bikes while trying to make huge profits. For example, there was a well maintained litre class bike in Bangalore that made its way to Kerala a month ago. The seller from Bangalore listed the bike for Rs 7.5L. It was sold within a couple of days. Now the same bike is being advertised as being on sale in Kerala, with a list price of Rs 9.5L

Also, dont just go by advertised prices, they are indicative at best. Try and see if you can find out the situation on the ground, in your city. The actual sale happens at a number far below what is posted on Olx.

[Torq]

Very well written. I too went this way of getting a pre-worshipped enthusiast bike for a good bargain.
My bike usage hasn't been as much as I would have liked to use, Thanks to Covid-19.
Hence, was looking for a decently powerful bike that doesn't cost much, and finalised on the Dominar 400.
Fortunately for me, an acquaintance from Tiago Group wanted to sell his, which was an excellently maintained example and well accessorised.
Did the deal immediately and happy to say, have been very happy with it past one year, exactly.

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I think a preowned Monster 821 is a bit of a hard sell to buyers looking for value or a bargain....getting both a pre owned 2015 Triumph 675 (say around Rs 5.25L) and a brand new Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 (Rs 3.2L) for the price of one Ducati Monster 821, the former will definitely be a lot more attractive...

If we use this logic, no one would buy any of the bikes we are talking about. Eg: why spend 18 lacs for a used 1200 GS when we can possibly get 4 bikes for the same money? Why spend even 5.5 lacs on a Daytona, when one can get two nice motorcycles like a brand new RE 650 and possibly a Duke 390? As you pointed out, the possibilities are indeed endless this way.

The title of the thread is “Enthusiast Bikes”. Based on that description, the Monster definitely has a more legendary reputation than the Z900. This is not to say that the Z900 isn’t a good bike. But if we are going shopping to satisfy a visceral want rather than a commuter need, then I can definitely see someone valuing a legendary V-Twin in CBU form over a CKD.

Fact is that if we are going to be very cerebral about this particular shopping exercise, we wouldn’t even be buying any of these bikes. Period. Because going purely by logic, bikes like the Duke or the Dominar or even the RE Twins offer incredible value for almost no expense.

In the end, it is up to the buyer as to what engine he or she prefers. Ultimately that is what floats all of our boats.

Just FYI, BMW service expenses aren’t exactly a bargain. And yet, a used GS gets sold very fast most of the time. People are actually waiting with chequebooks ready for someone in their circle to put a for-sale ad on their GSes.

So all manners of things get sold under the right circumstances and to the right customer.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

If we use this logic, no one would buy any of the bikes we are talking about. Eg: why spend 18 lacs for a used 1200 GS when we can possibly get 4 bikes for the same money? Why spend even 5.5 lacs on a Daytona, when one can get two nice motorcycles like a brand new RE 650 and possibly a Duke 390? As you pointed out, the possibilities are indeed endless this way.

The title of the thread is “Enthusiast Bikes”. Based on that description, the Monster definitely has a more legendary reputation than the Z900. This is not to say that the Z900 isn’t a good bike. But if we are going shopping to satisfy a visceral want rather than a commuter need, then I can definitely see someone valuing a legendary V-Twin in CBU form over a CKD.

Fact is that if we are going to be very cerebral about this particular shopping exercise, we wouldn’t even be buying any of these bikes. Period. Because going purely by logic, bikes like the Duke or the Dominar or even the RE Twins offer incredible value for almost no expense.

In the end, it is up to the buyer as to what engine he or she prefers. Ultimately that is what floats all of our boats.

Just FYI, BMW service expenses aren’t exactly a bargain. And yet, a used GS gets sold very fast most of the time. People are actually waiting with chequebooks ready for someone in their circle to put a for-sale ad on their GSes.

So all manners of things get sold under the right circumstances and to the right customer.

The way I look at it, there are two primary angles to approach this.
1. Keeping aside the preowned and pricing aspect, in a middle weight shootout of the BS4 bikes available in India, it is very difficult to say that the Ducati Monster 821 is better than all its competition. Here Im considering the Suzuki GSX S750, Triumph Street Triple 765 S / RS (or even 675), Kawasaki Z900 (or even 800), Honda CBR650R etc. Yes, the Monster name comes with pedigree but the competition is pretty strong but on its own merit, the competition has it beaten from what I have seen and experienced. I agree with you that the Monster 821 is an enthusiasts bike, no doubt about it.
2. Once we bring the price angle into the picture, the sticker price of the Monster 821 was the highest in the segment barring the Street Triple 765 RS, at least to the best of my recollection. The Monster takes a beating in the value game here.
3. Once we bring the preowned price angle into the picture, the Monster 821 is say 50 - 60% more expensive than a competitor (taking Z800 / Street Triple 675), with the competitor likely better than it in many / most / all respects, depending on who you ask. Now we come to the big question, is the Monster 821 value at such high prices? Even if the Monster 821 was as good as its competition (for arguments sake), is it worth Rs 3 - 4L more than an equivalent bike? The price gap can get you a second very capable bike or it can sit in an FD or be invested in riding gear etc.

As I said in my previous post, the Monster 821 is a hard sell to buyers looking for value or a bargain. And that is the key word in the title of the thread - bargain If wants wants to buy with the heart, then that is a different conversation altogether!

P.S - I havent heard of anyone using CBU vs CKD as a part of their purchase process. In your experience, is this limited to any brands / segments? I am interested to learn more on this.

P.S 2 - I almost bought the Panigale 959 brand new at one point of time. I did test ride the 821 as well, I wanted to like it but the test ride experiences left me unimpressed.

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

The way I look at it, there are two primary angles to approach this.
1. Keeping aside the preowned and pricing aspect, in a middle weight shootout of the BS4 bikes available in India, it is very difficult to say that the Ducati Monster 821 is better than all its competition....

This is your opinion; and of course, you are entitled to one. But I know many people who are V-Twin enthusiasts. Personally, most of the inline 4s have a drone-ish quality for me. I am not saying that I wouldn’t buy them. But I would any day pick a V-Twin or an opposed twin myself. I just like the sound of them over that of an in-line 4. Also, I like the tractor-ish nature of the pull in a V-Twin over the smooth unspooling of power in an in-line 4. Like I said, it’s personal.

Incidentally, I think you are letting your unremarkable experience with the Monster colour your thinking. I don’t blame you. Within the Monster family itself, the 821 is a distant second to the 1200 which we don’t get here. Typically, my experience is that V-Twins need bigger displacements to hit the spot and to impress. By comparison, smaller capacity motors in in-line 4 configurations sound and feel amazing. I pottered around on the ZX6R for exactly 5 minutes and thought that I was going to lose the bike. That thing really wanted to get away from me that day. I hurriedly got off it and then someone told me that that small 600 CC motor was cranking out 140 bhp!!! No wonder that bike wanted to go. That was a scary evening for me.

Coming back to our title, I think you are focusing on the word “bargain“, while I am sticking with the term “enthusiast’s machine”. That’s the difference.

For me, it is clear that if we use cost alone as the parameter, then there is no way that one can make the argument that an 18 lac GS is a bargain. That argument only flies if we use the “enthusiast” part from the title. But, if you say that one can make the argument that the GS is indeed a bargain based on the fact that a new one is 29 lacs, then the same logic applies for the Monster. A new one is like 15 lacs. A used one is probably going to be under 8. That’s almost half the price of a new one. In fact, most Monsters go for around 7.5 or even 6. A very recent piece with less than an year of ownership with the first owner will go for 9. That’s a decent price for the bike I think for those who like a V-Twin rumble.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

P.S - I havent heard of anyone using CBU vs CKD as a part of their purchase process. In your experience, is this limited to any brands / segments? I am interested to learn more on this..

CBU vs. CKD makes a huge difference. There is a reason, beyond just local taxes, that make CBU bikes more expensive. Which one would you prefer; a bike fully assembled in Germany (or Italy) in the original factory of the brand where you know quality control of components and manufacturing processes is world class? Or would you prefer a bike assembled locally by talent which has been trained recently, and which is functioning far from the eyes of original factory heads in the native country? It’s a no-brainer really.

To be clear, I am not saying that the talent here is no good, and therefore CKD bikes are bad. Far from it, I think we are a wonderful manufacturing partner as a nation. All I am saying is that for any brand, I would simply prefer my machine to come from the original factory. This would hold true for even Bajaj bikes that are sold as CKDs in other countries. The guys in the Pune factory probably know the Dominar, and all of it’s idiosyncrasies, better than their counterparts in other countries where the bike is getting assembled. No question at all.

As far as I know, Ducatis are CBU machines in India. For Kawasaki, it is a dart board of sorts. Most of the bikes at Kawasaki are CKDs. But the Z1000 and the Z900RS are CBUs. That’s why they are 21 lacs. The Z1000 comes with Ohlins and Brembos. But it’s slightly smaller brother, the Z900 (CKD), comes with only Nissins and Kawasaki shocks and is...wait for it.... a whopping 10 lacs cheaper at 10.62 on road Mumbai as of today.

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by mohansrides

This is your opinion; and of course, you are entitled to one. But I know many people who are V-Twin enthusiasts. Personally, most of the inline 4s have a drone-ish quality for me. I am not saying that I wouldn’t buy them. But I would any day pick a V-Twin or an opposed twin myself. I just like the sound of them over that of an in-line 4. Also, I like the tractor-ish nature of the pull in a V-Twin over the smooth unspooling of power in an in-line 4. Like I said, it’s personal.

Incidentally, I think you are letting your unremarkable experience with the Monster colour your thinking. I don’t blame you. Within the Monster family itself, the 821 is a distant second to the 1200 which we don’t get here. Typically, my experience is that V-Twins need bigger displacements to hit the spot and to impress. By comparison, smaller capacity motors in in-line 4 configurations sound and feel amazing. I pottered around on the ZX6R for exactly 5 minutes and thought that I was going to lose the bike. That thing really wanted to get away from me that day. I hurriedly got off it and then someone told me that that small 600 CC motor was cranking out 140 bhp!!! No wonder that bike wanted to go. That was a scary evening for me.

Coming back to our title, I think you are focusing on the word “bargain“, while I am sticking with the term “enthusiast’s machine”. That’s the difference.

mohansrides, I believe we have gone too far down the rabbit hole so let me try and take a step back and share my perspective differently. My initial post was not meant against the Ducati Monster 821 as a product, as I said, I too believe it is an enthusiasts bike, even if it wasnt the bike for me. My post instead was about the cost that it demands in the market and whether it represents a bargain, which is the topic here. Now lets take the reverse example, to help me illustrate my perspective. If we assume that pre-owned Ducati Monster 821 was selling for Rs 5.5L and its pre-owned competitor, the Triumph Street Triple 675/765 was selling for Rs 8 - 9 L, I would say that the Triple is a hard sell to buyers looking for value or a bargain. Assuming they are all equally good bikes for the average Indian enthusiast, why shell out 50-60% more for another option? Yes, one can say that you get a sweet Triple engine, that intake snarl, fabulous and class leading handling in the twisties and so on and so forth, but in the end, it wont represent great value.

Now, if we had a thread on the most under rated enthusiast bikes in India, I am sure the Monster 821 will find a place there! We have a lot of threads on these topics in the cars section, unfortunately the motorcycles sub forum is rather lacking when it comes to such threads where we can have similar exchange of perspectives.

Originally Posted by mohansrides

CBU vs. CKD makes a huge difference. There is a reason, beyond just local taxes, that make CBU bikes more expensive. Which one would you prefer; a bike fully assembled in Germany (or Italy) in the original factory of the brand where you know quality control of components and manufacturing processes is world class? Or would you prefer a bike assembled locally by talent which has been trained recently, and which is functioning far from the eyes of original factory heads in the native country? It’s a no-brainer really.

I agree with you in principle but I have never found observed any difference in build quality or ride experience of CBUs vs CKDs. I havent heard of owners mention any differences either. Let me ask around more on this.

[KarthikK]

As neil.jericho rightly mentioned, I think the reasons I did not include the Monster (or other Ducatis for that matter):

- Higher selling price in the market owing to significantly higher on-road prices in the showroom, the owners paid so much more so they will not reduce their asking prices.

- Fewer bikes in the market (fewer got sold compared to the competition) so there are very few seekers, and hence the owners can price it as they like - those who really want to buy it (Ducati fans) will seek out and won't mind paying a premium.

- Aside from the same example of Triple vs Monster, even if you look at Daytona vs Panigale 899 of the same era (although not a direct competition), the 899 sold significantly lesser in number here and is more difficult to find. Even if you find one, the owner expects you to pay a premium just because he knows it is a valuable enthusiast bike and justifies the higher cost with its exclusivity. So was the 899 a great enthusiast bike? Hell yeah. Is it a great preowned option? Good luck finding one first , and if we do, a 2015 899 will be asking ~3L more than a 2015 Daytona 675R. Is that extra 3L great value for majority of the prospects (exclude those wanting ONLY Ducati)?

- The thread is mainly about what can be had for a bargain, and hence this indirectly entails popular options in the market which sold well, have reasonable asking prices (relative to the segment) and also allow for some reasonable amount of fun (not necessarily the best in segment), without being a nightmare to own. If we remove these clauses and merely concentrate on specifications, there will be absolutely no bar and every bike which ever sold in India can make it to the list, because every bike has a fan base for some or other reason

- I don't think the CKD vs CBU vs SKD thing matters in the preowned market (or even the new market for that matter). Most of them are built similarly and I am yet to hear of any adverse effects merely because a bike was CKD instead of CBU. No used bike can ask 3L more just because it was CBU, etc. An example - the pre-2017 Ninja 1000s costed around 17-18L (OTR Bangalore), and later through the SKD route the price was brought down to 13L OTR Bangalore from 2017 facelift onwards. Catch 2016 owners trying to sell at 3L more than the 2017+ SKD version! Never going to happen, regardless of who assembled the bike. Local manufacturing of components on the other hand, probably yes the differences you say make sense - a recent example is the 2018+ Ninja 300 which seems to not have as much quality as the CKD batches prior to that.

EDIT: There were some questions on why the Himalayan and Mojo were not included despite being good tourers. The Himalayans sold in the preowned market are all from the BS3/BS4 era and have their own history of niggles and issues, many of which frustrated the owners to no end. I deliberately excluded it because one has to be super careful and lucky to be able to land a niggle-free 2016-7-18 Himalayan. It is not something I can blindly recommend as a great preowned option. The BS6 version has largely been able to resolve all the old niggles. Assuming it passes some long term reliability tests it can also be added to the list at some later point, in my opinion.

Regarding the Mojo, yes it is a popular tourer indeed. The Mahindra 2-wheeler service network doesn't have the best of reputations and has limited reach, relative to other options in this segment and I had excluded it due to this factor. Please do feel free to add an entry on the Mojo if I was mistaken.

[mohansrides]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

.... My post instead was about the cost that it demands in the market and whether it represents a bargain, which is the topic here..

Neil... I apologise. But I think maybe you are labouring under a misunderstanding. So, let me repeat -

The title of this thread is “The best Pre-worshipped ENTHUSIAST bikes available for a BARGAIN.”

So the thread is as much about a bike being an enthusiast’s machine, as it is about a bike being a bargain.

We have clearly established that definitions of both “enthusiast“ and “bargain” are highly relative. If that relativism didn’t exist, then there is no place for almost 90% of the bikes that have been mentioned so far in the list.

My point is that it is NOT your place to say that a particular bike (that someone else recommends) does not belong here in this list because you don’t consider it to be a bargain. You may think that a used Monster isn’t a value-proposition based on total ownership costs. But someone else clearly thinks the opposite.

Many people will gladly pay 8 lacs for a well-kept Monster and also fork out the money for the big Desmo service. Just the same way in which some people gladly pay 19 lacs for a used GS and then take on expensive BMW maintenance. It would be erroneous to conclude that people who buy a used Monster, or a used GS, aren’t value conscious. They definitely are. Else they would have bought those machines new. It’s just that their value definitions exist on different planes from yours.

Originally Posted by KarthikK

I think the reasons I did not include the Monster (or other Ducatis for that matter):

- Higher selling price in the market owing to significantly higher on-road prices in the showroom, the owners paid so much more so they will not reduce their asking prices.

- Fewer bikes in the market (fewer got sold compared to the competition) so there are very few seekers, and hence the owners can price it as they like - those who really want to buy it (Ducati fans) will seek out and won't mind paying a premium.-

A quick search on OLX shows 68 Ducatis in India for sale. These are of course on top of the bikes that never made it to OLX. Of the 68, a good 28% are Monsters of different displacements.

If you look at the asking prices, I don’t particularly feel that anyone of them is outrageously priced with respect to a new bike of the same make and model.

About CKD and CBU, my point was that CBU’s have higher new bike prices. And the price of a new bike will have a bearing on the used piece. If a model was originally CBU and then got turned to CKD, then it is the bad luck of the seller.

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

.... I believe we have gone too far down the rabbit hole.

Yes. Agreed. Peace.

[gunin]

Thank you for the wonderful list of bikes KarthikK. I will be going back to this list whenever I upgrade from my current ride: a Mahindra Mojo

Last December, I picked up a pre-worshipped Mojo of 2017 which had around 15k Kms on the Odometer. Since I am posted at a remote location in Pasighat, Arunachal Pradesh, I was looking for a reliable and rugged tourer which would do better than my Classic 500. Even though the nearest Service Centre for the Mojo is 650 kms away in Guwahati, I trusted this bike based on the experience of a friend who tours a lot. I have covered around 9k kms since then and a brief summary of the bike is provided below:

The positives:

1. Smooth, refined engine which is happy to stay between 90- 110 kmph all day.

2. Excellent stability on highways. Due to its heavy build, it is not affected too much by crosswinds.

3. Very well put together. Also, the wiring is so neatly done that my Classic 500's looks like a mess.

4. Reliable. I have not been faced even with a single niggle till date (touch wood!)

5. Exclusivity. My Mojo is the first one I have seen in flesh and it has remained that way .

The negatives:

1. Service centres are very far away. Since I am able to do simple DIYs like engine oil change, air filter change etc., it is not much of a bother for me as the bike otherwise very reliable.

2. Heavy steering at slow speeds. I might go for a single headlight modification which would make it lighter once I move back to the urban jungle.

3. I did not find the standard sitting position very comfortable (Mine is a BS III one). I had to get handlebar risers, Ride-on-Air seat and a windshield to get it to my levels of comfort.

For under half the price of a new Mojo, I believe a pre-worshipped one makes a great enthusiast's bike for anyone looking for a tourer.



My Mojo BS III

[shashank.nk]

What a fantastic thread compiling all VFM buys for those who want to get into touring on bikes or upgrade their existing bikes I'm on the lookout for a good pre-owned bike and the inputs wrt service cost of bikes is very useful.

Incase not mentioned earlier, the R3 came with ABS and Metzeler tyres from 2018 onwards, do consider adding it to the first post.

I also have a query wrt to resale of CBR 250ABS and Dominar, for eg the 2014 CBR 250ABS are listed for around 1-1.2 lakhs on Olx with owners expecting around 90k to 1 lakhs depending on condition, pending works, accessories etc, so is the 70,000 ball-park figure for a non-ABS variant ? Dominar resale is spot-on though

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

...
I also have a query wrt to resale of CBR 250ABS and Dominar, for eg the 2014 CBR 250ABS are listed for around 1-1.2 lakhs on Olx with owners expecting around 90k to 1 lakhs depending on condition, pending works, accessories etc, so is the 70,000 ball-park figure for a non-ABS variant ?...

My request is to stick only with an ABS model. Whatever you pay for the ABS model is worth. Dont think you'll get a non-ABS model for 30K less than the same vintage.

[VishJ]

Hearing the praises of the Karizma's capabilities only makes me more attracted towards owning one. But the problems in getting a good one and the subsequent upkeep is a big downer though. Still planning to go on and search for a properly maintained example. Can you guys please give some suggestions on what things are important to be inspected while checking out the bike? Also what kind of expenses I have to look at for general services and wear and tear parts?

[ashwinprakas]

Originally Posted by VishJ

Hearing the praises of the Karizma's capabilities only makes me more attracted towards owning one. But the problems in getting a good one and the subsequent upkeep is a big downer though. Still planning to go on and search for a properly maintained example. Can you guys please give some suggestions on what things are important to be inspected while checking out the bike? Also what kind of expenses I have to look at for general services and wear and tear parts?

Depending on mileage wear and tear varies, irrespective of mileage once you get hold of a used motorcycle it is imperative that you replace;

1. Engine Oil
2. Brake Fluid and Pads
3. Air Filter
4. Spark Plug

If the motorcycle is past 50k on the odo which would most probably be the case then after inspection replace;

1. Swing Arm Bush, the ones from the Pulsar Classic's(Not Pulsar 150 Classic released recently) is a direct fit costs peanuts.

2. Wheel and Sprocket bearing, if any one shows fatigue replace all at once, costs peanuts since bearings are generic spares, but seals you need to buy from Hero itself, or you could manage with getting 2RS bearings as they're sealed on both ends, a seal is still required as per shop manual, but at times I oversee it if spares are really scarce.

3. Coneset, if there is play i.e you get Tak from the front when you grab brake and go for a dive.

4. Oil Pump, if you get Tik Tik when you start the motorcycle and it goes away after a few seconds.

5. Clutch, 80kmph@5000 RPM is ZMA's signature, if it's clocking less speed at said RPM or if it's slipping when you whack open the throttle then replace clutch.

What you need to look out for is condition of engine, just inspection of sound would do, possibly run finger around the inside of your exhaust to see if the Motorcycle is burning oil, that'd do.

After that comes condition of Carb, it is Uber expensive at close to 6k being from Keihin so do observe for fueling related issues or lethargic acceleration. You can replace with the one form the Pulsar 180 or 220, either costs around 2.5k and works fairly decent on the ZMA, my preference is P220 carb, that's what our current build is running on.

Then comes electricals, the speedometer costs a bomb and so does other components, so carrying a multimeter along with you for inspection would do good. This being a Full DC motorcycle would do you good to evaluate condition before purchase, not much of a concern but you can use these are bargaining points, especially if the previous owner has molested it's electricals.

Finally comes the plastics, they're of inferior design and break easily, though personally mine always ran on company plastics, might be my decision to favour a crash guard instead of the obnoxious belly cowl, or my riding style to not brake before riding over potholes at speed as it compromises suspension travel and transfers shock to chassis. Anyhow broken plastics are a common issue with the ZMA and depending on colour price varies from 1.25k to 2.5k a PIECE of the outer panel. Inner panels cost around 200ish per PIECE, the PIECE is in caps cause there are several of them.

You can get replica panels for around 5k for the complete set, but opinions vary from user to user so I'd not recommend it.

So that's all. Goes without saying, this is one of those motorcycles when owned helps if you're into DIY'ing or know a very reliable mechanic, else it is almost certain that you'd bleed through your nose when it comes to maintenance.

This is a classic Honda engine, read, random compression losses are a norm, this is also the common point where local mechanics fleece you into a premature rebuild, if you loose compression randomly then don't panic, have a cup of tea and when you get back compression would be back.

I knew nothing about motorcycles or engines when I got my ZMA almost a decade ago, and now I can fairly rebuild an engine if the situation demands which is something considering my non-engineering background.

This again is one of the reasons for its cult status, it is a motorcycle you can learn and grow along with.

Hope that helps.

[VishJ]

Whoa. That's quite an information. Thank you so much for such an elaborate checklist brother. I am getting 2011 zmr models around 36000 kms on odo for 40K asking. They come with FI system I believe. Are these versions recommended if we go for a Karizma? Also the above checklist applies to 2011 version zmr too?

[VishJ]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

The CBR250 is also a very good option to consider. If you do have a motorcyclist friend who can help you hunt for a good bike, do pursue that option. Between a CBR250 and a Karizma, you will find it much easier to get parts and live with the CBR, in the long run. I completely agree with VijayAnand1's closing points on the Karizma, unless you have grown up loving the bike and dreaming of owning one, it is tough to recommend the bike in 2020.

Is CBR 250 good for 2 up touring with a saddle and tank bag? How good is the comfort for pillion and the rider over long distances? I am now kind of torn between Karizma and CBR 250. CBR feels like best of both worlds in terms of availability and service. Please give me some knowledge on above.