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Old 12th December 2020, 00:26   #16
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

I'm hearing (suddenly) a lot of opinions about the need for regularly truing spoked wheels. Retensioning spokes.

Run spoked wheels for the first 20 of the 30 years I've been riding bikes.

Not once have I needed to have any wheel trued or spokes retensioned.

I've destroyed spoked wheels. Broken spokes. Shattered hubs. Egged out rims.

I've had to replace wheels after such tour shattering impacts.

But truing and retensioning on regular usage ... never.

20 years.

Well over a lac kilometers on my KB100 RTZ.

Well over 1.5 lac kilometers on both my Std CI and LB 500 Bullets.

Never.

I'm wondering how many guys here have actually needed to get motorcycle spoked wheels trued and spokes retensioned as part of regular preventive maintenance ....

Cheers, Doc

Last edited by ebonho : 12th December 2020 at 00:28.
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Old 12th December 2020, 00:52   #17
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I'm wondering how many guys here have actually needed to get motorcycle spoked wheels trued and spokes retensioned as part of regular preventive maintenance ....

Cheers, Doc
120kgs+ Rider here, if at all that makes a difference.

My CT100B's nearing the 75k mark and a few of the spokes are off tension and one is bent, so once she hits the round figure I'd get it trued and the bent spoke replaced, first time done at 25k, second time at 50k.

Though in all honesty my intervals are delayed, should be done as soon as a spoke makes a different sound when you run a spanner through it.

You can keep riding without truing them, least of your problems would be related to handling, worst would be a collapsed rim. Though generally regarded to be durable this is just one part of wheel maintenance better not ignored.
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Old 12th December 2020, 06:13   #18
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
120kgs+ Rider here, if at all that makes a difference.

My CT100B's nearing the 75k mark and a few of the spokes are off tension and one is bent, so once she hits the round figure I'd get it trued and the bent spoke replaced, first time done at 25k, second time at 50k.

Though in all honesty my intervals are delayed, should be done as soon as a spoke makes a different sound when you run a spanner through it.

You can keep riding without truing them, least of your problems would be related to handling, worst would be a collapsed rim. Though generally regarded to be durable this is just one part of wheel maintenance better not ignored.
A spoke does not bend on its own. And at 120 kilos, you are well within the payload capacity of the bike ... unless there were two of you sitting on her regularly.

If it's been happening regularly, as you seem to indicate, I suggest you look for a better rim and stronger spokes. Both are equally critical and feed off one another.

I was referring to the need to true a wheel and retension spokes as a matter of "good practice" preventive maintenance.

The keys to a good wheel and spoke lacing remain the same be it bike or cycle. A spoke or spokes should not loosen or bend on its own under normal load and operating conditions. A poorly laced wheel, yes. A weak rim, yes. Weak or defective spoke, yes.

But otherwise, there is simply no reason for a wheel to need the sort of maintenance you and others are referring to.

A dud wheel is a dud wheel. It's not the norm.

Cheers, Doc

Last edited by ebonho : 12th December 2020 at 06:24.
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Old 12th December 2020, 07:53   #19
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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Originally Posted by ebonho View Post
I suggest you look for a better rim and stronger spokes. Both are equally critical and feed off one another.
Replacements have been stocked haven't found the time to replace though.

Complete front end of the UG3 Pulsar including hub and disc, all bought used of course, quite a bargain at 1k.

New parts include front rim of avenger 1.85 Inch(Stock 1.6 Inches) and spokes, rear rim of the Impulse 2.15 Inch(Stock 1.85 Inches) and spokes, stock rear hub as current one is at the end of its service life, actually well past it.

Caliper, Hose and MC I'm yet to source.

Having said that spokes coming loose hasn't got much to do with thicker spokes, a good enough hit is enough, not visually noticeable but evident when you run a spanner through as loose spokes make a different note than the rest.

If its loose to the point that the spokes can be shook you'd get a kind of flexing when leaning the motorcycle that's when I'd got them trued the first time, not being used to spokes I simply presumed the rear wheel bearing had gone for a toss until inspected further.

After all it doesn't hurt to simply run a spanner through the spokes, would take a couple of seconds at best. So really not much to gain skipping this.

Regards,
A.P.

Last edited by ashwinprakas : 12th December 2020 at 07:55.
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Old 12th December 2020, 09:04   #20
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
Replacements have been stocked haven't found the time to replace though.

Complete front end of the UG3 Pulsar including hub and disc, all bought used of course, quite a bargain at 1k.

New parts include front rim of avenger 1.85 Inch(Stock 1.6 Inches) and spokes, rear rim of the Impulse 2.15 Inch(Stock 1.85 Inches) and spokes, stock rear hub as current one is at the end of its service life, actually well past it.

Caliper, Hose and MC I'm yet to source.

Having said that spokes coming loose hasn't got much to do with thicker spokes, a good enough hit is enough, not visually noticeable but evident when you run a spanner through as loose spokes make a different note than the rest.

If its loose to the point that the spokes can be shook you'd get a kind of flexing when leaning the motorcycle that's when I'd got them trued the first time, not being used to spokes I simply presumed the rear wheel bearing had gone for a toss until inspected further.

After all it doesn't hurt to simply run a spanner through the spokes, would take a couple of seconds at best. So really not much to gain skipping this.

Regards,
A.P.
Sorry buddy. Good quality spokes and rim, well laced the first time, any number of hits don't loosen them.

There is something wrong here.

What you consider to be the norm, I have never seen or heard in over 20 years riding spoked wheels all across India.

Riding and racing, street and dirt.

If a good hit is all it takes to loosen spokes, then we would be tightening spokes every 100 km.

Along with the spares you have stocked up on, suggest you find a wheel anna who knows his job.

This is not normal.

Also thicker spokes aren't necessarily stronger spokes. Two spokes of the same gauge can be very different.

In my time, building the 18 inch set for my track Bullet, I recall CBZ rims being the preferred choice. Spokes were specially ordered to match the machined 7 " TLS stock hub cut down and re-holed.

Wheels are a black art. If you have a suspect fragile wheel, it sucks the life and confidence out of your riding.

Cheers, Doc

Last edited by ebonho : 12th December 2020 at 09:18.
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Old 12th December 2020, 16:12   #21
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

This kit apparently costs 850 euros along with the petal front disc. Thats about 78k and maybe gst. I don't think i really care about spending that kind of money on wheels. 20-25k scenario might be palatable.
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Old 12th December 2020, 17:18   #22
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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Originally Posted by ashwinprakas View Post
P.S. Converting Tubed Spokes to Tubeless Spokes, is simply stupid, please refrain from taking that route, ask anyone whose ridden with a flat tyre, it takes less effort for tyre to break bead and come off on a polished steel rim than a not so smooth aluminium alloy.

People who promote such conversions using aquarium/marine adhesive should be penalised IMHO.
Don't know what you're talking about mate. I've had an outex conversion on my Scrambler for 3 years and taken in on countless tours, gravel roads, trails, singletrack and daily driven over horrible roads.

I've had 4 flats since then and they've been perfectly safe and manageable to ride slowly to a tire repair shop or fix on the side of the road after recognizing that the tire was feeling heavy and had lost air pressire.

I don't see what's so dangerous about it. In fact Henry Crew ran his Desert Sled with a makeshift tubeless conversion on his tour around the world covering 55,000 miles. I know a lot of people running Outex conversions who are perfectly happy.
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Old 12th December 2020, 17:35   #23
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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Originally Posted by shyamg28 View Post
Based on the look of the rims (if that actually is the real deal), it will not support tubeless. The spokes start/end point in in the middle of the rim as opposed to on the outside as is the case with spoked tubeless-supporting rims.
Unless the orange and blue bands in the image are tubeless conversion kits (think Outex for e.g.).
Very interesting to know how many will go for it, given that we (ok, I) haven't heard any rim bending stories yet.

Disclaimer - The VStrom-650 XT is my only source of an example for tubeless spoked rims.
You're right. This will not support tubeless tires. What baffles me is that why don't the design seen on the VStrom be made the de-facto standard for spoked wheels. It is a simple design which can easily accomodate tubeless tires. The rim can be a cast alloy unit that accommodates spokes. On the same topic, the Ducati Multistrada is another bike with tubeless ready spoked wheels. This is a different design compared to the VStrom
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Old 12th December 2020, 18:46   #24
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

Spoke wheels are more durable. They are lighter. Where an alloy will need replacement, a spoke wheel mostly can be trued and continue to serve. They also offer a more absorbent ride as compared to alloys. The issue is most of them can't support a disc brake and tubeless tyre.

They also look cool. If spoke wheels were available for cars, even some of the modern cars will look very cool. If we notice, we can see what the alloy car wheels try to partially create, and we find attractive, is the spoke like (see through) look as compared to the steel wheels which are opaque.
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Old 12th December 2020, 20:21   #25
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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What baffles me is that why don't the design seen on the VStrom be made the de-facto standard for spoked wheels.
I would think keeping costs down. Last I checked the spoked rims alone would cost around 30-40k.
Now that's a significant bump on the ex-showroom price.
I do not disagree though. I wish they could find a way to make it standard.
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Old 13th December 2020, 14:54   #26
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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Why would KTM do what BMW does?
Insofar as the spoke fitment is the traditional kind, the KTM wheels are a lot stronger and do not warp or loose spoke tension ... the complaint from BMW riders the world over. The only drawback obviously is human error in fitting the band or careless removal of tyres with ordinary tyre irons, which might dislodge, crimp or nick the sealing band, causing air to eventually start leaking.

Cheers, Doc
If the KTM wheels, with mostly traditional spoke wheel design are stronger than the patented BMW ones, what explains the hype around the latter?

I'm sure I sound like the noob I am in this regard, but with the crazy troubles that plague the BMW wheels if they're even slightly damaged (specific trueing and fitment which most places seem to mess up), what makes them so sought after, or at least hyped up?

Also, during off road sessions that warrant a spoked wheel instead of an alloy one, would a tubed tyre be better or a tubeless one? For field fixing any punctures, that is. I'd assume that tubeless would be much more durable and easier to fix too.

Your inputs would be appreciated, Doc ebonho
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Old 13th December 2020, 16:05   #27
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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If the KTM wheels, with mostly traditional spoke wheel design are stronger than the patented BMW ones, what explains the hype around the latter?

I'm sure I sound like the noob I am in this regard, but with the crazy troubles that plague the BMW wheels if they're even slightly damaged (specific trueing and fitment which most places seem to mess up), what makes them so sought after, or at least hyped up?

Also, during off road sessions that warrant a spoked wheel instead of an alloy one, would a tubed tyre be better or a tubeless one? For field fixing any punctures, that is. I'd assume that tubeless would be much more durable and easier to fix too.

Your inputs would be appreciated, Doc ebonho
There are a lot of people who put a lot of stock in the BMW brand and quality etc. to explain why the mini Indian made BMW was so steeply priced.

I believe this question should be put to them.

I have no answer.

Cheers, Doc
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Old 14th December 2020, 02:49   #28
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

Interesting offering. I've read about spoke wheels being used by professional racers or stuntmen, but this might me overkill for most normal people doing a bit of adventure riding.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Why so? What is the advantage of spoke wheels?

1. Spoke wheels are more sturdy & less rigid than allow wheels = lesser chance of cracking
2. Easy to repair & remove bends = won't be stranded in remote areas

Improved metallurgy in the past 20 years has made really good alloy wheels. Still, spoke wheels are only part of a niche market of hardcore riders.
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Old 14th December 2020, 09:13   #29
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

Ok. Noob question. Can this be retrofitted on a first gen D390 to make it a somewhat palatable off-roader
I did come to know from a knowledgeable bhpian that it takes more than just this to get the first gen duke390 off-road friendly. But still..
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Old 14th December 2020, 09:24   #30
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Default Re: KTM introduces spoked wheels for the 390 Adventure

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Originally Posted by FloatingCanvas View Post
Also, during off road sessions that warrant a spoked wheel instead of an alloy one, would a tubed tyre be better or a tubeless one? For field fixing any punctures, that is. I'd assume that tubeless would be much more durable and easier to fix too.

Your inputs would be appreciated, Doc ebonho
Single point punctures are much less likely than small - medium tears while hardcore offroad riding. Tears cannot be fixed with tubeless puncture kits. Tubes are an advantage here.

Also tube tires can be aired down lower than tubeless without fear of complete failure if your bead slips out while hitting obstacles hard. There is a reason why all dirt bikes, motocross bikes and trail bikes run tubes.
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