[joelabreo227]

tl;dr: With rumors [1] about a small yet significant update to the Himmy BS-VI starting to surface, should I cancel my booking and wait a couple of months, or throw caution to the wind and take possession in early March 2021?

[1]: https://in.news.yahoo.com/2021-royal...190503182.html

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After many months of careful consideration, test riding and reasoning, I settled on the RE Himalayan as an upgrade to my loyal 2012 Honda Dazzler. I put down the 10k deposit on 7 Dec 2020 and hoped that the 3(!!) month waiting period would breeze by, and who knows, maybe even fall to 9-10 weeks?!

In the meantime, I am obviously keeping my ear to the ground for new developments and launches. The KTM 250 ADV launched a couple of weeks ago (meh), Meteor 350 launched, Honda CB 350 too. All expected, all did nothing to unsettle my resolve.

Until a few days ago

A routine Google search of "Himalayan" revealed rumours that there is an upcoming "2021" model in the works. [Note that this seems to be the "true" 2021 model, which is different from the 2021 model that RE exports to the US/Europe, which seems to be just a normal BS-VI bike available in India since Jan 2020. Export model year 2021 video example:

https://in.news.yahoo.com/2021-royal...190503182.html

https://gaadiwaadi.com/2021-royal-en...er-navigation/

Information is sparse, and everyone seems to be reading of a singular, unidentified source, but word on the webs is that the new model will largely be the same save for three (four) minor changes:

1. A built-in USB socket
2. The addition of the Tripper digital navigation system, a la Meteor 350
3. New colour options
4. (?) A "smoother"/"more refined" engine, with unchanged power/torque figures. Whatever that means.

All this for a modest price hike, around 5k INR.

I actually dig these upgrades (if true, of course). One of my gripes that I had chose to accept with the Himmy was the lack of any 12V or USB outlet. Digital navigation sounds great too because I dislike the idea of phone mounts for navigation.

There are aftermarket solutions to these problems, but for a bike noob like me, OEM and first party integration is king. I'd rather give 5k to RE and have warranty that I can count on than to an aftermarket supplier, no matter how reputable. (Also, a smoother engine?! Heck yes! (again, if true))

Now I know that none of this changes the "core" of the bike, and thus, my decision to buy it. I also get the argument that there will always be a better model around the corner, etc. But. Why should I put 2.5 lac of my hard earned money into a product that is potentially on the verge of being improved, even if marginally so?

Coming from the tech world, where everything is leaked and there are entire publications whose livelihoods depend on accurate forecasting of new products, not to mention that I'm a computer engineer myself (makes it easier to guage feasibility/likelyhood of rumors), I tried to find secondary sources. Nada.

So I decided to do the next best thing -- pattern matching. Companies usually have some kind of launch cadence, and since my research to find such a thing (read: Wikipedia ) yielded no results, I figured I'd give it a shot.

Below, is a timeline of Himmy launches. This information is mainly sourced from the taken from Team-BHP News, but verified with other sources like mainstream media publications and YouTube videos.

Himalayan Tag @ Team-BHP News: https://www.team-bhp.com/news?t=1518

Below is a text timeline and a spread sheet version for better visualization (colour coded 🟡🔵🟢 by BS-II/IV/VI respectively). At the end is my subjective analysis, both in text and image forms.

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🟡Feb 2015 -- "Himalayan" name trademarked
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/rumour...yan?t=MTUxOA==

🟡Apr - Dec 2015 -- Spy shots galore.

🟡Feb 2016 -- Initial launch
Launch post: https://www.team-bhp.com/news/royal-...rch?t=MTUxOA==

🔵Mar 2017 -- Rumor of FI, ABS version of Himalayan.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...himalayan.html (Fuel-injection coming to the Royal Enfield Himalayan)

🔵Sep 2017 -- Mainstream media review Himmy BS-IV. NO ABS, just FI on this one.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...2-12-lakh.html

🔵Apr 2018 -- Himmy BS-IV with dual channel ABS rumoured.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...n-get-abs.html (Royal Enfield Classic, Thunderbird & Himalayan to get ABS)

🔵Sep 2018 -- People claim to be taking deliveries of Himmy BS-IV with dual channel ABS, and pricing rumours abound.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ml#post4465571 (Royal Enfield Classic, Thunderbird & Himalayan to get ABS)
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/rumour...ed-rs-179-lakh

🟢Dec 2019 -- 2020 Himmy aka BS-VI spied
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...yan-spied.html (Scoop! 2020 Royal Enfield Himalayan spied)

🟢Jan 2020 -- 2020 Himmy aka BS-VI launched
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/bs6-ro...ed-rs-187-lakh

🟢Dec 2020 -- 2021 Himmy rumours from 💩 tier, the thing that started this whole post.
https://in.news.yahoo.com/2021-royal...190503182.html



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Subjective Analysis



To me, it looks like after spy shots and rumors, an actual release is never more than a few months away. No smoke without a fire types.

It also looks to me like RE has a launch pattern, either launching in Q1 or late-Q3. The OG Himmy launch way back in 2016, the minor Sleet update launch & the recent BS-VI launches were all in Q1, while the BS-IV launch & dual-channel ABS update were both late-Q3.

In the case of the Q1 launches, rumors started swirling about at the end of the previous calendar year. Even in the case of the Q3 releases, rumors were only a few months (~2-5) behind actual release.

Putting all this together, I am inclined to cancel my current booking an wait a couple of months to see if RE launches any updates. It's worth a shot, considering their Q1 release cadence. If not, I'll just go ahead and book it in time for my May 2021 personal deadline because its unlikely that RE will make a launch before late Q3.

I'd appreciate any advice or comments on any logical errors in my process. Thanks!

[GandalfTheGrey]

I posted my conundrum few days back here whether to sell my Meteor, and pick a Himalayan, or keep my Meteor and wait for the next iteration of Himalayan. I got some information from a genuine source that a lighter Himalayan, and a proper 650 cruiser are on the verge of getting unleashed. So if I were you, I would cancel my booking and bet my money on the new Hima.

Cheers!

[neil.jericho]

joelabreo227, welcome to the forum. The interesting (though occassionally frustrating) part of waiting in Royal Enfield's products today, is that there is so much in their pipeline and they have so many products near launch, that we really dont know what is next, and when exactly they will come. Ideally, Rider Mania 2020 and EICMA 2020 would have been the right places for the company to showcase their next products and drop 'hints' of the timelines but due to Covid, these had to be shelved.

For now, all my little birdies have little information on the updated Himalayan (or any of the other planned bikes for that matter) since the company sources themselves are very tight lipped on details of all new launches.

My suggestion is cancel your current booking and keep your cheque book ready for whenever the new launch(es?) happen in Q1 and Q2 of 2021.

[TheARUN]

I want to take the more 'macro' view. Royal Enfield currently has 3 engines in its portfolio. The 350, the 400 of the Himalayan and the 600 Twin. I suspect the future plan would be to retain just 2 engines, the 350 and 600 and do away with the 400. It's the Meteor engine that is going to make it into the Classic and Standard in future, the current Classic and Standard engine would definitely be phased out. The 600 is still young and will continue in the near future. If you ask me, I suspect there would be 2 himalayans, a normal Himalayan with the 350 and a Himalayan Pro with the 600. I suspect it is the 350 Himalayan that is getting spied now, it would launch for a price lesser than the current Himalayan, around the 1.99L mark. Tripper navigation would be introduced, and the compass would exit. What cements my suspicion is that the new to be launched iteration of the Himalayan is called out to be 'smooth', this matches what everyone says about the Meteor when compared with other 350 Royal Enfields. My advice would be, leave the booking money with the Dealer and tell him that you want to be amongst the first few to own the new Himalayan. Buying a Himalayan now with the 400 engine is not advisable since I suspect its going to go obsolete soon. Having said all this, the Himalayan on sale now is the best iteration we have had of the Himalayan to date, go for it only if you cannot wait

[ManneAtWheelz]

Originally Posted by GandalfTheGrey

I posted my conundrum few days back here whether to sell my Meteor, and pick a Himalayan, or keep my Meteor and wait for the next iteration of Himalayan.

You got the meteor very recently and finished few 10s of KMS on it, now why would you think of selling it? If you are a tourer more likey, then keep the meteor for city/near by rides and get a tourer (facelift Himalayan BS VI ) and keep enjoying..

joelabreo227, nice to see the kind of information you gathererd. I suggest you can wait few months and get the latest updated Himmy unless you have such urgency or can't tolerate the itching to get one.

[drrajasaravanan]

Hi Joel,
As far as I know there is likely to be 2 launches in 2021 of which one of it will be a lighter more refined Himalayan. I hope it's true. I agree with the views posted by Arun, if its going to be a lighter Himalayan it will be the 350cc engine from the meteor. It makes more sense. IMHO, if I were in your shoes I would wait for the new launch. Regarding the deposit with the dealer if its possible to postpone the purchase and take the first new Himalayan of the new lot won't it be worth your while. Cheers.

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by TheARUN

I want to take the more 'macro' view. Royal Enfield currently has 3 engines in its portfolio. The 350, the 400 of the Himalayan and the 600 Twin. I suspect the future plan would be to retain just 2 engines, the 350 and 600 and do away with the 400. It's the Meteor engine that is going to make it into the Classic and Standard in future, the current Classic and Standard engine would definitely be phased out. The 600 is still young and will continue in the near future. If you ask me, I suspect there would be 2 himalayans, a normal Himalayan with the 350 and a Himalayan Pro with the 600. I suspect it is the 350 Himalayan that is getting spied now, it would launch for a price lesser than the current Himalayan, around the 1.99L mark. Tripper navigation would be introduced, and the compass would exit. What cements my suspicion is that the new to be launched iteration of the Himalayan is called out to be 'smooth', this matches what everyone says about the Meteor when compared with other 350 Royal Enfields. My advice would be, leave the booking money with the Dealer and tell him that you want to be amongst the first few to own the new Himalayan. Buying a Himalayan now with the 400 engine is not advisable since I suspect its going to go obsolete soon. Having said all this, the Himalayan on sale now is the best iteration we have had of the Himalayan to date, go for it only if you cannot wait

I agree that in the long run the 411cc Himalayan engine will probably be shelved.

Launching the 350 engine on the Himalayan now may not be the best strategy as the power figures really won't attract any new buyers.

On the other hand, if they launch the Himalayan with the 650cc engine platform with kerb weight maintained at the current level by good engineering, then the impact in the market will be big.

Also, RE seems to have a plan to have a launch every quarter of 2020.

With just the 3 engine options, they will try the mix and match on all platforms. Just curious about what comes out first.

The 650 engine cruiser is definitely coming soon.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Originally Posted by ManneAtWheelz

You got the meteor very recently and finished few 10s of KMS on it, now why would you think of selling it? If you are a tourer more likey, then keep the meteor for city/near by rides and get a tourer (facelift Himalayan BS VI ) and keep enjoying..

OT: Why would I think of selling the Meteor? Short answer is heart strings and all. It was exacerbated by the pain which I'm facing after riding for more than 30 mins. Quoting my post from Meteor's thread

Ergonomics: As mentioned, I stand 6"2, and have longer legs. After 30-45 mins of riding, I get discomfort where my right thigh joins my hip bone. The discomfort lasts for some time and becomes numb. I think it's because of the posture, as my legs are slightly raised at the pegs, rather than stretched/relaxed. I think few inches of seat height should solve the problem. I request fellow bhpians to pitch in here, and educate me on what could be the issue and what could be done to alleviate it.

Long answer would be below

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ml#post4961423

Thank you for suggestion, ManneAtWheelz. Your suggestion is also the decision I've taken. Thankfully bhpian drrajasaravanan (doc) also suggested the same, and after a long phone call he instilled some sense into me. So the wait for the bigger Hima/cruiser continues, while I'm enjoying my Meteor.

Cheers!

[GTO]

Mod Note: Poll added to spice things up on the thread .

I appreciate your attention to detail in presenting the data, man!

[joelabreo227]

Everyone, thank you for your insights. This exercise has been quite helpful for me.

As suggested by niel.jericho, TheARUN, ManneAtWheelz, drrajasaravanan I will call up my RE rep tomorrow and ask him about any upcoming launches. If he cannot provide any information, I'll either postpone or cancel my booking and sit tight for a couple of months. Like medicine, it's annoying in the short term but good in the long term
(Also, thanks GTO for adding the poll! )

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re:

Originally Posted by TheARUN

I want to take the more 'macro' view. Royal Enfield currently has 3 engines in its portfolio. The 350, the 400 of the Himalayan and the 600 Twin. I suspect the future plan would be to retain just 2 engines, the 350 and 600 and do away with the 400.

A few of you have commented along these lines. I was originally going to comment on how this didn't make sense to me because the while the displacement figures of the new 350cc SOHC Meteor engine are close enough to the Himmy's LS410 (350cc v. 411cc), the characteristics were different, as typified by the differing power and torque figures (20.2bhp v. 24.5bhp and 27Nm v. 32Nm respectively).

However, in doing some research to substantiate this, I think there might be some data to actually back TheARUN (and others') claim.

1. We know that RE had to develop the new LS410 motor from the ground up, and that it shares no parts with the old, non counter-balanced UCE 350 [1].
2. The LS410 has a couterbalancer and SOHC, oil-cooled and is fed by an FI system. Also, it's compression ratios are 9.5:1. It develops a lot of torque low dowm, doesn't rev very high and consequently, doesn't make a lot of HP on paper. Now compare this with the new Meteor engine: counter-balanced, oil-cooled SOHC w/ FI, same 9.5:1 compression ratio, same low-end torque characteristic, doesn't rev very high [2].
3. Compare the bore/stroke of the engines: 72 mm x 85.8 mm v. 78 mm x 86 mm on the new Meteor v. LS410 respectively. Is it just me or does it look like the LS410-like displacement can be accomplished with a bored-out Meteor engine block? [2][3] (ps. I'd love to be taken a peg down by someone who knows the actual mechanics of these engines, but from over here in theory-land, it adds up :P )

Long story short, yeah, it's certainly possible that RE will re-use the same engine, but with different bore/pistons. That will also fix the power shortage that Mafia brought up, and that I tend to agree with. RE is dead serious about selling these things in the US/Aus/NZ markets, where they are already viewed as "underpowered". I don't see them taking ~4bhp off the motor any time soon.

However, all this is predicated on the M350cc and LS410 being somewhat compatible, mechanically. Maybe they are not at all compatible and RE has just committed to maintaining three engines (350, 410, 650). God knows, they have probably sunk a few million dollars into the R&D of LS410. [5] Again, I'd love to know how part-compatible the two engines are.

And RE managing 3 engines is not too outlandish an idea. They do sell a LOT of Himmy units in India, US, etc. to justify maintaining it. [4]

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re: the 650 twin making into the Himmy body? Seriously doubt. That engine sings like a bird but at the end of the day, it is still a big hunk of metal. I have long suspected the reason RE doesn't just plop that thing into the Himmy's frame and take 2x the money from the thousands of people who have been imploring them to do so is that the frame is just not strong enough for it. I suspect for a Himmy PRO to be released, RE will have to go back to the drawing board (maybe they already are) and redesign something like a trellis frame that they use for both the smaller and 650cc Himmy. Think about how KTM uses the same frame for multiple bikes (D250/D390/ADV250/ADV390). This would explain the "lighter Himmy" rumours too, if the lighter, stronger frame is used on a future 400cc class Himmy. This is all pure theory-crafting though and maybe I have too much time on my hands with my Xmas staycation :P

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tl;dr: If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on RE releasing a facelift sometime in Q1 or Q3 2021. USB hub, redesigned console, new colours, that kind of thing. If there is a new Himmy in the works, I'd think its a couple of years out, considering how much time and money RE has sunk into developing and manufacturing the current platform. [5] In automotive circles, 4-5 years is "mid-cycle", right?

As always, I know that I know nothing and would love to eat some humble pie

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[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_...malayan#Engine
[2]: https://www.carandbike.com/news/roya...engine-2323190
[3]: Page 5 of https://motorcycles-villefranche.sto...-himalayan.pdf
[4]: https://www.rushlane.com/royal-enfie...-12372174.html
[5]:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTQl...5GgbYq&index=4

[R.G]

Rushlane has got spy shots of the upcoming updated RE Himalayan.

- Tripper navigation confirmed.
- No changes to the engine reported.
- Better refinements.

Your prediction on an updated version for 2021 Q1 looks correct.

Link to the article : here

[joelabreo227]

That's great news, thanks for posting it, R.G!

Called my RE rep's number today. He was out of office. The sales rep I spoke to claimed that they haven't heard about any upcoming updates, but the tone of her voice suggested that I'm not the first person to call in asking to postpone a booking in favor of the 2021 model.

I've told them to hold onto my 10k and put my name into the top of the queue for any upcoming release in the next couple of months. I'll probably follow up next week to confirm that my name is, in fact, near the top of the waiting list. (The already messed up my booking the first time around (wrong color) so I just want to make sure they're on their toes.)

I'll update as new information is available. Cheers!

[R.G]

Quoting @neil.jericho from another thread (Ridden: Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 & Continental GT 650 Twin)

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

So, in the span of 3 days, Rushlane has put out 3 articles related to Royal Enfield's upcoming motorcycles.
- 28th Dec : Updated Himalayan. Rushlane "confirmed" that it will have trip navigation.
These are all clickbait articles with a lot of wordsmithing.

As someone keeping a close watch on this thread , what are the odds that rushlane reports are true ? I even voted to postpone the purchase based on the notion that what I read was correct.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by joelabreo227

That's great news, thanks for posting it, R.G!

Called my RE rep's number today. He was out of office. The sales rep I spoke to claimed that they haven't heard about any upcoming updates, but the tone of her voice suggested that I'm not the first person to call in asking to postpone a booking in favor of the 2021 model.

I've told them to hold onto my 10k and put my name into the top of the queue for any upcoming release in the next couple of months. I'll probably follow up next week to confirm that my name is, in fact, near the top of the waiting list. (The already messed up my booking the first time around (wrong color) so I just want to make sure they're on their toes.)

I'll update as new information is available. Cheers!

Keep your booking but wait for the 2021 model, credible information exists that the new model is going through testing and will launch pretty soon

[shancz]

Originally Posted by joelabreo227

Long story short, yeah, it's certainly possible that RE will re-use the same engine, but with different bore/pistons.

And RE managing 3 engines is not too outlandish an idea.

Good call on holding the booking, no harm in waiting 2-3 months especially after that exhaustive research you did, kudos to your efforts

Agree, RE will keep a separate engine line for the Himalayan, that's why they developed it in the first place.
Agree with your analysis and adding a few points out of experience in riding the Himalayan :
- 350 single won't work, RE are quite aware of the power disadvantage of the Himalayan.
- 650 twin : too wide for Himalayan's frame in its current form, lower FE will warrant a larger tank to keep it above the 400km mark.

IMHO RE have and will manage at least three engines for sure.
They know quite well the special status of the Himalayan, its customers and and the responses their "rationalization plans" can evoke.

But I doubt a major launch of the Himalayan in 2021. Minor cosmetic upgrades/trippr ? maybe.
I remember Sid Lal saying in an interview during the launch of the twins, when asked about the next Himalayan his response was "we'll think about it in 2020".
I have put a timeframe of late 2022 - mid 2023 based on this interaction and the feel of things currently but better informed BHPians can give more accurate info.

I would love if I was wrong, there are at least three of us who were impressed by the Himalayan in remote Arunachal and are eagerly waiting

Originally Posted by joelabreo227

[i]
So I decided to do the next best thing -- pattern matching. Companies usually have some kind of launch cadence, and since my research to find such a thing (read: Wikipedia ) yielded no results, I figured I'd give it a shot.

It also looks to me like RE has a launch pattern, either launching in Q1 or late-Q3. The OG Himmy launch way back in 2016, the minor Sleet update launch & the recent BS-VI launches were all in Q1, while the BS-IV launch & dual-channel ABS update were both late-Q3.

Like you showed there seems to be a pattern, for sure because launch timings would be decided by sales and marketing, and they would prefer certain timelines to maximize sales.

Have a few doubts about the rumored update though, I don't have any data to substantiate it but its more of a biker logic.
The "spy-shots" in the gaadiwaadi link suggest that the tacho will be replaced by the Trippr ? I doubt it, ADVs aren't our regular commuters where the tacho won't be missed. If RE does it there will be an immediate backlash and I think they're smart enough to not go in that direction(remember they had to add switchable ABS in BS6). Its a good feature but I don't think it can come at the cost of a tacho.

Also the image shown in that gaadiwadi link seems doctored. Look at the trippr console you can see the tacho backlights under it. A poor image edit. Also most likely they used a BS4 console as BS6 consoles have white backlighting(except some due to part shortages).

See for yourself ignoring my even poorer MS Paint skills (the image itself seems to be lifted from a TBHP thread here (Royal Enfield Himalayan ABS - One year of blissful ownership!)):

Actual image is this