[lazy]

Mods - may I request this thread be closed.

It is sad to read the comments being made here by people who have no idea of the operational realities of CRPF. And despite some members explaining that these are meant for use in trails, jungle paths, IED infested roads, they can't seem to understand.

Such condescending attitude - they think these design/mods will be made without taking inputs from Doctors/Experts/Riders and experts in the field and are made considering various operations and financial constraints? And we, TBhp members, are better qualified than these experts?

(not to mention such educated folks don't even know the difference between CRPF and Army)

There are Doers and there are Talkers.

There are people who watch India's RD parade with pride and feel happy, and there are people who practice for 4-6 months for this parade with pride and with happiness. The motorcycle stunt/show is a skill demonstration and is a part of our military heritage and we love show/see it.
So, if it makes you cringe - don't watch.
(I'd be very curious what else about India makes you cringe)

cheers
lazy

[gkveda]

There is a huge difference between opinion and analytical and thoughtful review. I consider most of the comments in this thread are just opinions of individuals rather than thoughtful reviews.

My request to all:
Do we have any other better Design solution to reach hospital quicker than current ambulance mechanism?

If yes, suggest them with a detailed drawing along with a justification of how it works better than the primary subject of this thread.

With out data and facts, if we criticize the initiative, it would be just called opinion.

[srini1785]

There is a fine line between creative thinking and its proper engineering execution. The intent is not all that bad but what is worrying is the execution. The person seems to be locked into a head cage in one of the pics. Not to mention that it looks like a stock RE without any modifications for the job. Not even an additional suspension for the patient seat. An ambulance, by definition should have a CPR, room for a emergency responder to attend to a patient, equipment for emergency use like a drip stand etc. No such features are seen.

Having said all that if the intention is to transport a wounded jawan to a waiting ambulance some distance away, then it might probably do the job with some excuses.

PS : On the republic day RE bullet stunt, we have been doing the same stunt for around 30 years now with the same model, how about changing Classic 350 to say Interceptor 650? or Duke 390

[nitro.1000bhp]

Mein Gott!! The injured soldier may just die of sheer embarrassment! (Just kidding).

Some people on here should learn to relax. No one here is mocking the soldiers or crpf or the army. They're only mocking this monstrosity of a contraption. I am sure DRDO are good at defence research but I wonder how many of them go trail riding in the jungle. With an injured soldier sitting that high up, in that position, will the rider be able to control an already heavy bike through a jungle trail? I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist (I am sure there are a few of them at DRDO) to figure out the centre of gravity and mass are way out and I bet it'll be a handful for even the toughest of our soldiers to handle on the loose stuff . Like many have pointed a sidecar rig is more apt for this sort of application.

I just pray this doesn't do more damage to an already injured soldier.

[SmartCat]

Mod Note: Guys, avoid lobbing grenades at eachother. Stick to science/physics.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by SmartCat

Mod Note: Guys, avoid lobbing grenades at eachother. Stick to science/physics.

Seriously, I think the useful discussion on this has been done already. It's now just .... Looks like you have it figured out already.

[drt_rdr]

I didn't read every post but I say we don't get into pointless criticism without understanding the specifics of what we're criticizing.

First of all, I'm sure the intent for the vehicle is not to serve as a full ambulance, but just to evacuate the injured personnel from the area of conflict and help them have a better chance of recovery or survival than none at all because obviously, as stated by SmartCat before, regular ambulances would not be feasible in those areas. This is supposed to be better than nothing.

We don't know exactly what kind of trails they'll be riding through. Let's not assume it's always going to be some narrow and tough jungle trails with rocks, ruts and undulations everywhere. It could be well worn single or double tracks, and easy mud and gravel for all we know. I mean if they're regular patrol routes, I'm sure vehicular movement on the terrain over the years would have naturally done some levelling.

It's common knowledge that bullets and their adequately fat torque are great on the dirt in general. Besides, they're already being used as service vehicles in the armed forces since a long time which means the personnel would already be familiarized with the machine in their area of operation. So, here is a bike that is easy to ride on dirt, with a low seat height which lends to easy loading and unloading, and comes with the added advantage of the users having familiarity with it. What are the downsides?

People here are criticizing the riding ability of armed forces personnel. Let's keep in mind there are all kinds of physically average or even unfit people out there riding 200+ kilo motorcycles + payload for pleasure. I'm sure our jawans whose physical fitness is better than the average biker are more than capable of handling a 170 kilo bullet + around 100 kilos of payload.

On the outset, it seems to me like it's a practical solution, just not a pretty one.

My only point of concern is how they're going to load the chair onto the bike with the injured person sitting in it. But I'm guessing they wont do that. The chair is probably going to be on the bike and the injured person will be lifted by hand and strapped into it, and once at the hospital or some safe transfer point, the chair is going to unloaded with the help of another person.

[Lowflyer23]

Originally Posted by amvj

With due respect to the army personnel, many things in this country need to be banned in association with Royal Enfield motorcycles. One is the above weird looking ambulance thing and the second is these circus things doing rounds in republic day. There is nothing cringe worthy than inviting some foreign delegation and showing some weird stunts.

Attachment 2110976

Attachment 2110977

Sad to see such an offensive comment on our jawans and no action taken on the person's post even after reporting it. Just think if the soldiers thought that fighting for the safety of people like you is cringeworthy, that would be the perfect analogy. Merely adding the phrase "with due respect" doesn't undo the negative comments typed.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by gthang

When restrained, including the neck restraints(the cage looking thing), should provide a reasonably good mode of transport. Please note the attached oxygen cylinder and supply system, and drip bottle holder. I for one think it's a pretty good solution.

Found this pic on NDTV website:



and this video on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9btZ6W3_kzA

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by gthang

Dunno how you can be from India and not have a visual in your mind of a speeding doodhwala on a loaded Chetak .. It's not what you ride, it's how you ride.

Tarred roads are no problem. Nobody's even talking about that.

But I haven't really seen doodhwalas or families of 5 speeding on bullets along dirt roads.

The big tussle on the previous page was about managing dirt roads with this setup, was it not?

From the looks of it, and the demo picture, the strecher is laid on the ground to minimize lifting the patient, and since soldiers rarely patrol alone, am sure it can be a two man job to lift and lock it to the bike carrier plate.

If you mean the bike ambulance is going to be accompanied by another patrol bike, then that makes sense. I was thinking in terms of it being a one man job.

[drrajasaravanan]

Hi,
I dont think DRDO or the CRPF or the army takes decision lightly. I have interacted with few frontline colleagues, including one dear friend who i am still in touch with and have visited health care center's which cater to them.
For starters each zone has got a clear detailed plan in case of disaster, the do's and the don'ts, chain of command to follow, level of activation that should be triggered. Many years back interacting with one such group I had the opportunity to glance at a 150 and odd document clarifying all issues and detail plans for all eventualities.
People who are taking pot shots at this plan to evacuate soldiers who have sustained traumatic injury please remember people at the DRDO and the soldiers who would eventually need this would not have taken this decision lightly.
Its not ideal but so is the many omni vans labelled as ambulance ferrying patients in all our cities. If anyone cares to go and see the specifications of an ideal ambulance you will find very few ambulance and the paramedical staff in India are as per standards.
In CRPF and BRO they have adequate training and drills to prepare them. I had attended a presentation where a field doctor had inserted a stem of the leaf into the trachea of the injured soldier who suffered facial trauma secondary to the blast, the soldier was shifted to tertiary care center and survived. This is the level of competence that is brought into the field by dedicated doctors in service.
I am sure the team who has designed this will recheck the needs and change it as per the needs of the personnel who are the end users. If this helps to bring the trauma victim within the golden hour to better facilities where they can get better care then why not.

[ishan12]

People here on the forum are calling this stupid, a PR stunt or a brainless design. Sad to see such criticism without going into the reasons for this.
Quite sure none of them have ever been to rural and remote parts of Naxal infested areas of MH/ CG/ Telangana.
Having spent my childhood in Gadchiroli district which is a Naxal hotspot of MH, this is exactly what is needed in situation where a personnel is to be rescued from a village/ location which is only accessible on foot via a narrow walking trail surrounded by thick forest foliage.
Imagine trying to get a Bolero or even a bike with a side car into such a location, forget about saving your team mate, you yourself are running into the risk of getting stuck like a sitting duck and being sprayed by bullets. Such villages with extremely difficult motorable access are actually preferred by Naxals as hideouts. Sad to see such opinions, coming out of elitist ignorance. But believe me, those CRPF folks know better.

Also, this is not exactly an ambulance in that sense, it is just a means of a transport to be able to rescue some one with injuries out of a danger zone.

[ike]

Originally Posted by lazy

Such condescending attitude - they think these design/mods will be made without taking inputs from Doctors/Experts/Riders and experts in the field and are made considering various operations and financial constraints? And we, TBhp members, are better qualified than these experts?

All manufacturers have inhouse experts and designers. Going by this logic, bhpians shouldn't be commenting on anything at all. All people are doing here is giving their opinions and one doesn't have to be an "expert" to do so.

It is about being tolerant and respectful towards the right of everyone to have an opinion and voice it.

[landcruiser123]

Financial constraint is certainly not behind this design. I'm sure they Army, CRPF, and DRDO know what they are doing as most of us typing on this thread (me included) don't know a thing about the hostile terrain & conditions these brave men risk to protect us.

Let us avoid attacking one another & pointless arguments of why no Jeep or Bolero for ambulance.

[88_TANK_88]

There are two train of thoughts in this thread.

1. Design and execution of the bike ambulance itself.
Keeping in mind the area of operation for which the setup is designed, many ideas would have been floated and this particular one was executed.The CRPF personnel demonstrating it means they have accepted the same. As they are primary users, their acceptance takes precedence over our debates.

2. Execution of rescue operation in field and practicality of the above setup.
In any military operation or patrolling, under live fire conditions, the medical aid is not the first person sent forward. It would only add to casualties. First the area is secured by the forces and then doctors and ambulances do the needful. Their would be helping hands to stabilize and secure the injured to the bike ambulance. This bike will not replace the regular ambulance, instead it would replace two men carrying the injured on hand held stretchers.