[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by aargee

@Neil Jerico - Now I know why you enjoyed Adv 390 on MC Road better than 675 Striple.

Pretty sure he was speaking of a Duke 390 and not an ADV. I know because I was there when he picked it up!

[aargee]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

1. Horrible A$$!! Useless morons who dont even know how to service a bike proper. Every single service centre in Chennai is worser than the other

Boss - this is the case with every ASC in Chennai; even Triumph & Kawi is having this trouble

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

It doesnt matter whether there's legendary reliability, when parts cant even be procured. I'd anyday pick a product which is less reliable but parts can easily be procured

Royale Enfield

[rahul4321]

As everybody else has mentioned - the pricing is unreasonable. This is a motorcycle I would buy at around 6.50 lakh onroad. Not a penny more. Plus I don't like the minimalistic looks of the motorcycle.

I fail to understand Honda sometimes. It's almost like they wish that nobody buys their premium motorcycles. Reminds me of the time I went to look at the 650R. The showroom staff was so busy discussing cricket, they didn't even offer me a glass of water or a cup of tea or even their undivided attention. They gave me a price list and directed me to the finance department to make a down payment.

Oh well - will wait for something else. Might consider the Triumph Trident even though its not a 1-1 replacement.

[neil.jericho]

There is one last point that I must mention with regard to the Honda CB500X. And that is time. We Indian motorcyclists have gotten accustomed to waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for the perfect bike.

The Adv 390 was our great big hope but it disappointed the large majority of motorcyclists who had waited for years. If KTM had got the ingredients closer to what its target market was expecting, the Adv 390 would have sold in plenty.

The Honda CB500X was the next big hope but Honda's pricing, as I stated, is ridiculous.

OK, we waited for 3 - 5 years for these two bikes, now we will wait for our next big hope - the twin cylindered KTM Adv 490, which should blast everything below and above it to smithereens. But, what if Bajaj / KTM only launches the Duke 490 and RC490 first? What if Bajaj / KTM doesnt pull the trigger on the Adv 490 for India, due to the low sales of the Adv 390? Maybe Bajaj will want to wait for the 490 platform to be established first, before launching the Adv 490 which will be at a much higher price point than it's platform mates.

That adds at least 12 - 30 months of waiting from now. And many riders have already waited for 3 - 5 years. Maybe there will never be a perfect motorcycle. The dream of the perfect next bike often overshadows our motorcycling choices and our happiness in the present day.

Originally Posted by Axe77

This bike will need a customer base of riders who know exactly what they want and have been there done that, whether with smaller or larger capacity bikes.

I completely agree with your post. I think you have summed it up brilliantly. This might be a small subsection of the market, but for them, there is a value proposition with the CB500X.

Originally Posted by Axe77

Off topic but one of the reasons I feel the Triumph Trident will actually do really well. A perfect visual blend of the best of Street Twin / Street Triple with adequate power to make the most of our conditions. It is also refreshing to feel like you're pushing some of these bikes when they're at 100 / 120 instead of feeling on a litre class where you don't feel like the bike has even woken up and you're already at hairy speeds.

Spot on. The Trident is already garnering a ton of bookings, even without the bike reaching India. I know of cases where the dealership is calling potential customers who showed interest in the Trident and is asking them to confirm their booking before they run out of bikes that will be allocated to them.

Originally Posted by ManneAtWheelz

2 questions, 1. What is the purpose you purchased Street Triple? 2. Why did you return in KTM, is there a story I'm missing here?

I came close to buying a Ducati 959 and then later, a Kawasaki ZX10R. I realized that a middleweight bike like the Street Triple 675 would be a better option for me to build my limited skills and get some track riding experience, before I went up the ladder.

I had to drop my Triumph in Trivandrum for a few days and hence, returned on the first gen Duke 390.

Originally Posted by aargee

Some of them look value in what they buy, some look quality, some look for style, some look for class, I'm a person who look for value & from that POV, I don't see CB500X offers absolutely no value at all. The only credit I can take is, all parts are Made in Japan & for that, yes, this price is awesome. Spares is something I'm not going to comment for now as it should be imported from Japan or worst case they should be made in India later & then I start asking myself, if the high initial cost is justified?

I absolutely agree with you and everyone else, on the very limited VFM being offered by the CB500X. 3 years ago, I would have said that Honda will struggle to sell any CB500Xs at this price, but today, I see a small segment of riders to whom this appeals strongly. Riders like me.

Originally Posted by ManasN95

Brilliantly put Sir, Honda should take note and using this passage of write up for their sales pitch, with due credits.

Thank you for your very kind words. I wont mind if they dont give me any credit but instead give me a loaner bike for a few days to see if the bike is as good as everyone says it is!

Originally Posted by camitesh

Slight OT but what worries me is the price point at which Honda will launch the new 650R for which the last known ex-showroom price in 2019 was 7.7 lakhs (just 80+ k more than 500x). Going by US prices, the difference between CB500X and CBR650R is a whooping $2,700 so anything less than INR 9 lakhs will be a miracle for 650R IMO. Kawasaki Z900 and Street Tripple R territory

I guess if Honda sees enough demand for the CB500X, they might consider a CKD run for the bike at more affordable prices. I too felt that Rs 5.5L ex showroom was the right price for the motorcycle, irrespective of how it reached the showrooms.

The 650 will likely be matched up on price with the Kawasaki Z900 and Triumph Street Triple R. They did the same when the original CBR650F was launched in 2015.

Honda import the CBR 650F into India via the CKD route, assembled at Manesar. This should have seen affordable pricing, but at this price, leave aside direct rivals, you can bring home the capable Z800, Kawasaki’s in-line four cylinder machine that’s a clean segment up on any 650.

As a bike on its own, the CBR 650F makes a robust, well rounded performer. It’s got a fairing, quality, good equipment, strong performance and reasonably nice handling. Pit it against its nearest rivals, the in-line four Benelli’s, 600i and 600GT, and the CBR is more than able to hold its own. However, factor in its Rs 7.30 lakh (ex-showroom, Delhi) price and the CBR 650F runs into a brick wall. Honda’s priced the bike a segment higher, where the competition is way stiffer.

Link to Autocar India's review of the CBR650F.

[shaikhmimran]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

I guess if Honda sees enough demand for the CB500X, they might consider a CKD run for the bike at more affordable prices.

Well articulated Neil, agree to all except that the lower pricing is not going to happen even if there is change in production modalities. Most likely an OEM might upgrade the product in future without significantly increasing the current level of prices.
The current price clearly states that Honda is not looking at this bike as a major volume model. Infact this bike is now positioned like a seperator between Honda Bigwings volume models (350cc & it's variants) and their SBKs. Who knew that Big wings would need such Big pockets.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

...I guess if Honda sees enough demand for the CB500X, they might consider a CKD run for the bike at more affordable prices...

If there is enough demand at atrocious prices, why would anyone reduce the prices?

If any business is shrewd, they'll localise and keep the prices same to cash in on the demand - case in point, Fortuner Gen 1 and Swift K Series engine facelift (from 1.3L GB13).

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

The Adv 390 was our great big hope but it disappointed the large majority of motorcyclists who had waited for years. If KTM had got the ingredients closer to what its target market was expecting, the Adv 390 would have sold in plenty.

I would not make such blanket statements without owning and riding the said motorcycle for an extended period of time.



Motorcycles are an individual preference as always. But anyone who says the 390 adventure is not good enough to explore the depths of India has probably not ridden the bike for any kind of time to form a trust worthy opinion.

PS: The bike is sold out in North American markets.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I would not make such blanket statements

IIRC - The initial 'disappointments' on the 390 Adventure were regarding -

1. Missing out on adjustable WP suspension and
2. Having alloys wheels instead of tubeless spoke wheels.

Safe to say - CB500X not only misses out on these, but also adds to several missing features to the list like switchable offroad ABS, IMU based traction control etc - at a little more than double the cost!

[ownerofazkaban]

Honestly I am convinced that Honda really serious about their dealership ROI.
The real tag line is tum dus dus becho , hum ek becha kafi hai!

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

IIRC - The initial 'disappointments' on the 390 Adventure were regarding -

1. Missing out on adjustable WP suspension and
2. Having alloys wheels instead of tubeless spoke wheels.

Safe to say - CB500X not only misses out on these, but also adds to several missing features to the list like switchable offroad ABS, IMU based traction control etc - at a little more than double the cost!

1. Adjustable suspension: How many times have you adjusted yours on the Versys? I did it once, it screwed my ride up, and I promptly went back to stock and left it there. I know some people like Jaggu would love the adjustable suspension on the front, but it is what it is.

2. Spoke wheels. It's hard to fix a tube puncture? Especially at night? Middle of nowhere?

Ps: All the Interceptor owners are converting their tube wheels to tubeless.

I think the CB500X is a great bike for what it is, barring the price. Price is a big big letdown.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Motorcycles are an individual preference as always. But anyone who says the 390 adventure is not good enough to explore the depths of India has probably not ridden the bike for any kind of time to form a trust worthy opinion.

Ramana, Good to note your opinions on the ADV390 after a longer ownership and the brilliant north-east ride you are currently on!

FYI - the 'disappointments' I mentioned above was from posts including your own initial impressions on the ADV390, along with your willingness to spend an added 25k to get wire spokes when those were announced. As you rightly mentioned above, trust worthy opinions do come from long-term experience.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

2. Suspension won't bottom out if you stand and keep the weight off the rear. It will if you keep sitting and bounce off the bike as you hit stuff. But yes, stock suspension is a major pain point. But solvable and so is not a very big deal. Adjustable suspension is definitely a need and not a want.

Originally Posted by Red Liner

This kit apparently costs 850 euros along with the petal front disc. Thats about 78k and maybe gst. I don't think i really care about spending that kind of money on wheels. 20-25k scenario might be palatable.

The CB500X could be just as great a motorcycle as the ADV390 is, or is claimed to be - my only point was that it (the Honda) does not get any of the additional kit which owners and prospective customers claimed they were disappointed to see missed out when the ADV390 was bought or purchased. And this is despite the 2X price tag!

So it isn't really a solution to the 'disappointments' of the 390 which Neil pointed out in the earlier post. Only real solution it provides over the KTM is reliability.

[narayan]

I wonder why Honda didn’t consider the CB400X which is very popular here in Singapore and in fact around S$1500 cheaper than the 390 adventure. CKD taxes in India surely at play here but could have been mitigated possibly by bringing the 400X at a slight premium to the 390 Adventure.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

If there is enough demand at atrocious prices, why would anyone reduce the prices?

The only potential buyers I see are the owners who want to downgrade their rides from big bikes & that's the niche or nice segment. People who want to upgrade like us...my thoughts at bottom

Originally Posted by Red Liner

1. Adjustable suspension: How many times have you adjusted yours on the Versys?

Forget Versys, I haven't adjusted my C250R's rear suspension from 3 for a decade now!!

Originally Posted by Red Liner

I did it once, it screwed my ride up, and I promptly went back to stock and left it there

#Me too

Originally Posted by Red Liner

2. Spoke wheels. It's hard to fix a tube puncture? Especially at night? Middle of nowhere?

Absolutely

Let me admit stating I don't like KTM. First of all I hate their tagline "Ready to Race"; if I own one, I'm afraid to be labelled as street racer. Next, they're the culprits to have made masses afford for a fast & powerful motorcycle to the young & inexperienced crowd & responsible for all the accidents. Along with old Rx100 & R15, Duke is also a favorite among the chain snatchers. No, I really don't like to associate myself with such a brand.

I have literally not been looking what KTM is offering in India or abroad as I was pretty sure I'm not going to buy any KTM. All I know is they make all single extremely light weight & pretty powerful motor.

Versys & VStrom are from Japan, offer good VFM, but their service cost will certainly put the bike next to showroom piece at home. Tiger...less said better, not on the engineering or ride, but on the same service costs.

CB500X was a fantastic choice, with a killer pricing, I think HMSI literally killed the product, anyway, I don't want to conclude, let's see what lies ahead.

With all options running out, I was curious to see what the hell KTM has to offer. With 158 Kilos (say 165 Kg) is something that an active rider up to the age of 60 can handle without fuss (bring in Neil's realistic points here); 29 Kmpl & 13 liters useable I see a potential range of 350+ Km (forget the tall claims of 400); internationally acclaimed means, I can import a part that's not sold in India (say an aux lamp or comfort pillion seat for example); 43 Bhp & 37 Nm is a decent power to keep doing 140 all day with 2 up riding & some light luggage; one glance at the fuel price relaxes my nerves to settle with a single motor instead of multi cylinder; with ABS & cornering ABS, traction control, USB, phone integration, the only thing I miss is cruise, but then, the only middle weight that has CC is Tiger; yes, it's taller, yes, the sound is like autorickshaw, but hell, its still superior to the newest kid that's merely 100 CC more. The more I read & watch about 390, the more it grows on me & see the pure value that KTM offers. I'm certainly intrigued & feel like to have shot for the stars forgetting the diamond under my feet. I now even remember they've a ASC & showroom closest to my home. I still cannot get over my prejudice over KTM, but I'm heading to their showroom now, just for a visit, just to see the bike in flesh, that's all, nothing more.

[camitesh]

Originally Posted by narayan

I wonder why Honda didn’t consider the CB400X...... been mitigated possibly by bringing the 400X at a slight premium to the 390 Adventure.

Well as well know pricing, especially for CKD machines isn't Honda's forte so I wouldn't expect the 400X to be priced anywhere close to 390 Adventure, rather it would be closer to 500X (at best 2 lakhs lesser maybe) i.e approximately 6 lakh on road. Atleast with 500x one can say the premium pricing is for bigger engine and slight power bump over 390 Adventure apart from legendary Honda reliability

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by narayan

I wonder why Honda didn’t consider the CB400X which is very popular here in Singapore and in fact around S$1500 cheaper than the 390 adventure.

CB400X is essentially the same motorcycle - but with the 67mm piston making a stroke of 56.6mm to duck under 400cc as against 66.8mm to make it 471cc. To compensate - it runs an increased compression ratio of 11.2:1 as against a very relaxed 10.7:1 on the 500 to produce similar power outputs on paper, though torque is still less by 4Nm and produced 1000rpm higher in the range.

The 400 allows Honda to qualify for the mid-class motorcycle requirements in Japan and is also imported into Singapore because it helps with the 2A license requirement.

CB500X is the real deal and what other markets without restrictions get!