[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by Karthik.thm

Have a look at TVS scooty Zest, its reasonably priced (around 80k), flat floor and much more practical.

ICE scooters...petrol prices are a deterrant. Based on the current usage and fuel prices, I need to check when an EV will breakeven. Issue with ICE is that every week we have to fill up, the high prices pinches you! I'll make a detailed calculation and then take a call.

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

Interesting and surprised by your cancellation! Any reasons for not checking on Ampere EV scooters?

The build quality is cheap and those hub motor scooters are something that I wouldn't touch. Okinawa/Ampere/Bgauss/Heroelectric all come with these hub motor setup.

[Karthik.thm]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

ICE scooters...petrol prices are a deterrant. Based on the current usage and fuel prices, I need to check when an EV will breakeven. Issue with ICE is that every week we have to fill up, the high prices pinches you! I'll make a detailed calculation and then take a call.

I understand your point and I think we are in same boat.

Right now I'm using TVS scooty pep plus for my daily commute which was actually bought for my Father. All these years I was using bike and since pandemic I'm using Pep Plus more than bikes. Its super convenient and literally stress free commute even in busy central Bangalore. Due to this I started an itch to get myself a scooter so that I can give back the pep plus to Dad. I considered almost all scooters right from Pep plus to Aprilia SXR 160 even electric ones. Trust me, only TVS knows how to tune CVT in their scooters. You won't feel any lag between acceleration input and power delivery on road, its almost instantaneous. The worst tune of CVT that I experienced was Suzuki Access 125, it simply doesn't move for couple of seconds when accelerated.

As for electric scooters, I personally think the market isn't matured yet. Everyone talks about running cost effective and riding nature of an EV. However, no one realising about the cost when it comes to battery replacement or that massive screen replacement incase of minor incident.

I did calculate price point on ICE versus EV as below.

Say for example I'm comparing between Scooty Zest and OLA S1.

ZEST - 80K
S1 - 110K

So if I buy Zest over S1, below is the simple math for difference amount that I saved.

30,000÷100.58×35÷30= 347.98

That 30,000 is the difference between ZEST and S1 on road prices.

100.58 is the petrol price in Bangalore right now.

35 is the average mileage for Zest.

30 is the average KMS running per day.

347.98 days of fuel bill covered.

That's almost a year worth of fuel. I'm sorry for such a long post and bad calculations. I'm very bad at mathematics.

I really don't know how to calculate EV running cost to match or break even for additional 30k that spent on S1.

Current EV structure may work for some and not for many which includes me. Also for who is absolute LAZY

Just my 2 cents, if EV works for you then its well and good

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

The build quality is cheap and those hub motor scooters are something that I wouldn't touch. Okinawa/Ampere/Bgauss/Heroelectric all come with these hub motor setup.

Is that the reason you are not considering the iQube, yes it has a hub motor buts its a bosch made hub motor. But I read that iQube is better on bad roads.

I think you should just postpone your purchase and wait for the Hero motors EV or the improved IQube that is said to be launched in a few months time.

Who knows Ather may be forced to cut the price once there is more competition.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by Karthik.thm

Say for example I'm comparing between Scooty Zest and OLA S1.

ZEST - 80K
S1 - 110K

So if I buy Zest over S1, below is the simple math for difference amount that I saved.

30,000÷100.58×35÷30= 347.98

347.98 days of fuel bill covered.

That's almost a year worth of fuel. I'm sorry for such a long post and bad calculations. I'm very bad at mathematics.

Frankly, I do not compare Zest with OLA S1, S1 is faster, has more tech. Just yesterday my cousin bought an Access 125 with bluetooth, which has a basic turn by turn navigation for 111K(including necessary accessories).

30,000÷24×90÷30= 3750days or 10 years
24₹/charge = 3kwh*8₹/kWh
90kms = range
30km/day

Still compared to Zest, after the first year you would start saving 30K every year(per your calculation), buying is easy for most people somehow you get hold of 1 lakh, the real pain starts when you need to pay 300₹(3litres - 120kms) every 4-5 days at the pump. Even if you need to change battery after 4 years, you would have saved 90k.

Compared to Access 125, where the savings start from day 1, you will save 120K within 4 years.

[carthick1000]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Ola S1 - ₹110k
TVS iQube - ₹120k

Well, iQube is a potential option (yes, with a flat floor) for your father's needs. Also it is priced less than Ola S1 and not the pricing as you mentioned above. In BLR, around 1.08L onroad.

[hemanth.anand]

Originally Posted by carthick1000

Well, iQube is a potential option (yes, with a flat floor) for your father's needs. Also it is priced less than Ola S1 and not the pricing as you mentioned above. In BLR, around 1.08L onroad.

Attachment 2242581

Add 12k for the charger and suddenly it all looks different. yes you have to pay that over and above the 108k for the scooter. Instead of 120k for iQube, 128k for a 450+ is a better buy (if one is willing to spend so much that is).

[mytbhp_turbo]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Now the hunt for my father's next scooter is back to square one. In ICE vehicles, Activa is his preference. Although I don't want that, I'll not get to hear any complaints. Jupiter would be my pick in ICE scooters. However the petrol prices is making him think of an EV. His daily running is 30kms and he feels the pinch every time he visits a fuel station.

Following are some of the OTR scooter prices in Bengaluru.

TVS Scooty - ₹65k
Honda Activa 110cc (or any other 110cc scooter) - ₹90k
Ola S1 - ₹110k
TVS iQube - ₹120k
Ather 450+ - ₹130k
Ola S1 Pro - ₹140k
Ather 450x - ₹155k
Bajaj Chetak - ₹155k

We are clear that don't want to spend much over 1Lakh and hence the S1 was perfect from a pricing point of view. Now that it is out, I really have real choice and we've hit a dead end! Considering all the points, one option I can think of is a pre-owned Ather 450 or Bajaj Chetak If I can get a good one. The search is on and till we find that, My dad has to ride the vespa and I've to continue listening to his complaints...

If you go by pure running cost EV will win hands down.

Here is calculation based on -

Daily run ~ 30 KM i.e Yearly ~ 10800KM
Petrol Prices = 110 Rs/ltr
Honda Activa average = 55
EV Bike run cost - as per only 0.25/KM

Apologies for bad handwriting -




As you can see yearly saving will be 18K, you should be able to recover price diff in around year and half, but here is another side effect of high running, Ola gives battery warranty for 3 years/40,000 KM. I am not sure what happens after that ? if you have to change degraded battery, you might be spending close to 27-30K on battery?

[StepUP!]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Now the hunt for my father's next scooter is back to square one. In ICE vehicles, Activa is his preference. Although I don't want that, I'll not get to hear any complaints. Jupiter would be my pick in ICE scooters. However the petrol prices is making him think of an EV. His daily running is 30kms and he feels the pinch every time he visits a fuel station.

If I may suggest add Yamaha Fascino 125 to the list. It is now equipped with mild hybrid and reviewer claim they got astonishing fuel efficiency of 70kmpl!
Going through user comments also concurs this claim. It is the lightest in the segment.

[turbodude]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

Following are some of the OTR scooter prices in Bengaluru.
TVS Scooty - ₹65k
Honda Activa 110cc (or any other 110cc scooter) - ₹90k
Ola S1 - ₹110k
TVS iQube - ₹120k
Ather 450+ - ₹130k
Ola S1 Pro - ₹140k
Ather 450x - ₹155k
Bajaj Chetak - ₹155k

Sir, I suggest you take a test ride of TVS Jupiter 125 and then decide. Drum Alloy version is 97,500/- OTR here in Mumbai, mandatory accessories included. We have got one and its really really good to drive. Due to fuel tank placement below footboard, balancing the vehicle is very easy and you can feel it on turns.

[navrddy]

I cancelled my ola reserve price booking today, received amount back into my credit card in a days time.
I am not convinced, by ola product design. Looks good in product videos. Also there is no clarity, once battery life is beyond necessary warranty.
In a EV, battery forms major section of the vehicle cost and life unlike in combustion, where every part can be replaced and restored.
Still wondering, if battery powered vehicles are sustainable financial over long life times. Hopefully EV manufacturers don't force end customers to upgrade there vehicles in 3-5 years like in case of mobile phones.

[pogo0120]

My Activa gives 35 to 40 km/l in the best of times, which means around Rs. 3 per km and that excludes engine oil, etc.
10000 km x Rs. 3 = Rs. 30000 per annum. After three years, one would have spent almost Rs. 90k over three years.

Regarding mileage, in stop and go Bangalore traffic, I am not even getting 30 km/l. My Discover 100cc is giving around 45 km/l. So I am realistic about the mileage.

By this time it has had 7 times oil change, at least one time air filter, spark plug, belt, starter battery and clutch overhaul. What is common for both ICE and EV such as tires, brakes, cables, etc. has not considered.

EV costs are like bounce infinity 50 kms eco mode 2 units of electricity, i.e 2x 10 rs per unit ..means 20 Rs for 50 kms. Around 40 paise per km.
30000 kms means 12,000 electricity cost vs 90000 petrol cost plus oil belt etc maintenance cost

After 3 years you are cash positive by at least Rs. 80,000. So even if you spend Rs. 30000 on battery, you will still be Rs. 50000 richer if you ride in Bangalore.

[arvishnu]

Thanks for the calculation, EV definitely makes sense for people whose running is more. For people like me who's was ridden 8k on Ntorq in 3 years ICE makes more sense as the battery replacement cost would not justify. Unlike ICE, battery has to be replaced over time even if not being used as they get degraded over time and cannot hold the charge.

[DarthVeda]

are you saying there is no engine replacement or no re-boring or no change in clutch plate or cables or [insert other parts here] in ICE vehicles?

[BhayanaV]

EV 2 wheeler doesn't make sense right now except for specific use case. Or for that exclusivity. The overall environment is to immature right now.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by DarthVeda

are you saying there is no engine replacement or no re-boring or no change in clutch plate or cables or [insert other parts here] in ICE vehicles?

Nope, it's pretty much an electric motor, so no pistons. (Your question made me realize that even though I'm supposed to be an electrical engineer by qualification, I have no idea what an e-bike motor looks like, so looked it up.)

Here's a good example, some good inside views of what I imagine a typical e-bike motor would look like (though this one seems to be more for electric bicycles):

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/active-line

Question for those who are better informed: will the motor for e-motorbikes be much different? Or just bigger capacity? (Thanks in advance for any info!)

And what is typically done in servicing for an e-bike like an Ather?