[SubodhRage]

Note to the Moderators:
Please merge the post if needed, I couldn't find a relatable thread.

Hi readers,

Hope you're doing well, and all the best to those planning to ride it out in the Christmas week.
Before I begin the thread, a brief about me; I've been with T-BHP for about 3-4 years now and posted mostly travelogue posts of my recent adventures in Bengal and North-East. A few more are in the pipeline
I recently got a pre-owned BS6 Suzuki Gixxer 250 SF - a beautiful underrated machine - would definitely recommend it hands-down except for the questionable services of the Suzuki Motorcycles.

Coming to the issue, well, there is only one- vibrations post 80km/hr. I was aware of this issue while purchasing the bike. The bike had run for a measly 3600km when the owner decided to sell it due to his commitments in the US for which he had to leave. I noticed that the vehicle's manufacturing month-year comes under the optional recall that happened last year.
Link to that recall here:

Originally Posted by TusharK

Suzuki has recalled the Gixxer 250 and SF 250 to rectify an issue after customers complained of excessive vibrations.

Attachment 2150653

A total of 199 units are said to be affected by this issue. This includes bikes manufactured between August 12, 2019 and March 21, 2021.

Link to Team-BHP News

Now given the low-mileage, the bike still in warranty and the good deal, I was willing to take the gamble! A little brief about the issue; the vehicle vibrates a bit while at idle (pretty common for single cylinder format bikes), and runs smooth till 5000rpm after which I can feel the vibrations, on the foot-pegs, the body panels, and the handle-bars. The vibrations aren't that much, but it's enough to feel a bit irritated in the long run. It the level of vibration you'd expect on older Duke 200 and P NS200 at 90+km/hr , but not something you'd expect in the new bikes.

I informed this to the service centre during the first service post ownership, and he told me it's ideal for the bike to vibrate at 80-100 speeds. Now, I have previously driven Dominar, Apache RR310 (first gen), Dukes and therefore, I understand that there is only so much you can do in a single-cylinder format to dampen the vibration to zero, and hence, considering that I was willing to live with the vibrations. However, recently I rode my friend's Gixxer 250SF, new version and then test-rode the new Gixxer 250SF as well, which made me take this vibration issue a bit more seriously. Surprisingly, there was zero vibrations on those bikes at 100-110 km/hr (6th gear). On the other hand, my vibrates enough for me to notice and reduce the speeds to around 90km/hr. Mind you, there is no changes done to the bikes this year, and the everything is mechanically same!


Considering this incident and the fact that my bike is almost brand-new( haven't even crossed 5000km on the ODO), I raised a complaint a the Suzuki Motorcycle's email ID: customer.queries@suzukimotorcycle.in, on 30th October, 2021.

I received the response within a day, and was called to the nearest service centre for vibration testing and diagnosis. The response time in this case was pretty great and appreciable! However, I couldn't the service center just then due to office work/travel.
I visited the service centre next week on 12th November, 2021.

The vehicle's vibration was diagnosed via a vibration bench- it's a tuning strip which is attached to the bike and has sensors at the end to alert the testing when the vibration of the tuning strip is beyond the allowed standards.

My bike was getting maximum vibrations at around 5000 rpm and 8000rpm

Basis this they had ordered for parts- a balancer shaft, and a balancer gear for change. They informed me that the parts would take around 1-2 weeks to arrive and once they arrive, I'd have to leave the vehicle for around three days for the parts to change and further diagnosis to be done. I received updates by November-end that the parts have still not arrived and this felt terrible. The production facility is in Gurgaon and how it takes more than a month for the parts to arrive is beyond my understanding. Perhaps someone can shed a light on this as well!

It's 20th December,2021 and I had contacted the service centre yesterday, and they informed me that the parts would take a week to arrive still.

I request the fellow riders to advise me on what I should do. I have the following questions that I hope this forum would help me address:
1. How can I expedite this issue at the Suzuki Motorcycles Pvt. Ltd. ?
2. Can anyone help me connect with a known authority in the company to expedite this issue ?
3. I already have the bike with me, and so my weekly usage isn't hampered, but is riding the bike without the issue resolved advisable ? Can it cause the issue to aggravate, or crop up some new issues ?
4. Considering that the bike's engine(clutch case side, not the head) would have to be opened for parts change, and diagnosis; should I go ahead with this ? Can any other issue crop up due to the engine case getting opened ? How'd it look on the papers if I plan to sell this bike 4-5 years down the line, the service records show engine casing opened and parts replaced ?
5. While I rode the new Gixxers, the panel felt more sturdy, and the vibrations was the main thing I noticed! Everything felt more well-build together. If the company has done any minor changes to the new Gixxers, can they do the same updates for the previous owners ?

[gauravanekar]

@subodh, I feel for you. Living with vibration for the fear of bad repair is not acceptable in my personal opinion, being an owner of the same motorcycle I can tell you how great the bike feels without vibration.

My advice is go for the parts replacement, however please be very strict with work carried out. Learn a thing or two about the good practices during such repairs through some research. Personally get involved when carrying out repair.

Certain things which you can rightfully demand from them:

1. Not to open a single screw until they are absolutely sure that all required parts are available
2. Not use use brute force to open parts while disassembly, a ASS should have dedicated tools for every step of operation.
3. Should maintain best hygiene, not to keep any machined part on dusty surface.
4. Ask them to plan such that the entire activity should happen in one day non-stop, you don’t want to keep it open over night

Be ready to pay extra labour, communicate the same to them before hand.

[ashwinprakas]

Can you live with the issue?

Depends on your tollerance, personally I'd not give a hoot and consider changing the Balancer Assembly only when I have a valid concern to open up the motorcycle. If Suzuki is doing the replacement at their cost and is willing to ensure quality workmanship then by all means go for it.

Would this cause any further concerns?

Not really, Motorcycle will vibrate more and that's about it.

Worst case if the balancer weight is locked by a woodruff key and the key fails due to vibrations then you're looking at a complete engine replacement as the weight would hit the big end of the crank and that would totally mess up your engine. Again this is unlikely but have seen the same happen with CBR's and KTM's.

What do they need to do to replace a Balancer Assembly?

They'd have to take the motor off the chassis and completely disassemble the engine as the case needs to be split if the fitment is anything like the Gixxer 150. Your Cylinder head, cylinder kit, clutch, magneto etc etc would all have to be taken apart.

In my P220 the Balancer is timed with the help of a scissor gear in which case just the scissor gear needs to be changed it is a very convenient process that takes about half an hour and I couple it along with clutch replacements, unfortunately modern motorcycles have an interference design with respect to balancers so life isn't easy.

Hope that helps.

[Rocketscience]

While i totally agree that they should have fixed it sooner but the very fact that they had issued an recall, they promptly attended you and finally understood the issue, they actually had the equipment to test the vibrations (a first in India i have seen) and are agreeing to fix the bike is a huge win in my books.
Even my R15v3 has vibrations yet no one even remotely notices it let alone acknowledge it, test it or fix it, i'd say you sit tight and this should definitely be fixed sooner than later in my opinion. Good luck.

P.S The concern of fellow bhpians with respect to the entire engine being opened are genuine, they do need skilled and careful technicians to accomplish it well otherwise they can do more harm than good as the balancer shaft does indeed involve opening the side covers and the cylinder and head and then eventually the crank case to replace which means pretty much every single part will have to be dismantled. Sure there are people who can do it well but most can't.

[Cyborg]

Originally Posted by SubodhRage

Surprisingly, there was zero vibrations on those bikes at 100-110 km/hr (6th gear). On the other hand, my vibrates enough for me to notice and reduce the speeds to around 90km/hr. Mind you, there is no changes done to the bikes this year, and the everything is mechanically same

Subodh, many times manufacturers change or strengthen some small parts after receiving feedback from owners. They don’t necessarily announce these things as they don’t want to acknowledge there was a problem in the first place. These vibrations could be one of those issues since it does not fall in the safety category, they could have made small changes to some parts without announcing or making a recall of sorts.

In your place I wouldn’t take the risk of opening the bike up, they could create some other issues in trying to fix the vibrations. Why take a chance, better to live with it. For the handlebar grips perhaps you could try something like bar end weights or Grip Puppies which should help.

Do keep us updated on your decision and all the best.

Cheers

[Mr.Bentley]

Originally Posted by SubodhRage

[b]Coming to the issue, well, there is only one- vibrations post 80km/hr.

My Suzuki Gixxer SF150 has a similar problem. It vibrates when engine is spinning between 4500-5500RPM. Most of the vibrations are felt at the handlebar. I've observed this only after my first service as I didnt cross 4200RPM during run-in period.

The bike is 4 months old now, and gone through the first 2 services. I've complained about this during both the times. Yet, the service centre couldnt rectify it. They say that its a common problem, and took measures to rectify it. This repeats for 4-5 test rides from them but to no avail. I got vexed and left the issue since I had to take care of other urgent commitments.

The vibrations come around at 60kmph for that engine RPM. Since I ride ONLY in the city, this doesnt bother me much for now. But I'm at the ends of patience.

PS:
I've observed that the vibrations subside (almost) completely if there's a pillion behind me. I think these vibrations are due to resonance. Does sticking something (M-Seal/handle end weights) on the handle bar resolve the problem?

[karanddd]

Did the vibrations issue not dissuade you from buying the bike? Suzuki might be able to work some magic here, but I would be wary of having the engine opened up.

[VijayAnand1]

Bad harmonics lead to vibrations, and vibrations coupled with uneven harmonics induce stress points and stress points would mean, an engine that can go kaboom. Excessive vibes would spit the balancer shaft right out of the engine, and that'd be a mess on the road. Now, will all these happen? Perhaps yes, there is a 60% probability that this can very much happen. The other 40% is how long till the stress accumulates until it gives up.

I would suggest you take it proactively and take it easy. Engine claim, and repair are an arduous, time consuming and basically a red tape. When an engine strip down is the procedure that has to be carried, patience goes a long way which I know is hard and emotionally a constant bugging factor. Kudos to Suzuki for actually acknowledging and having an instrument to test it. How many Indian manufacs do even attend to such cases or even have listening ear? Bleak!

These are the two cents I'd like to add, rest I leave it to experts.

Good luck.

Cheers!
VJ

[SubodhRage]

Originally Posted by gauravanekar

@subodh, I feel for you. Living with vibration for the fear of bad repair is not acceptable in my personal opinion, being an owner of the same motorcycle I can tell you how great the bike feels without vibration.

My advice is go for the parts replacement, however please be very strict with work carried out. Learn a thing or two about the good practices during such repairs through some research. Personally get involved when carrying out repair.
...
Be ready to pay extra labour, communicate the same to them before hand.

Thanks @gauravanekar, I'll keep these in mind. I was told that the repair would take at least 2-3 days to change parts and do further diagnosis. I'll also have to leave for Bengaluru as my office opens up, so incase the parts don't arrive on time, then I might not even be available for the repairs, let alone supervise it. I've entrusted the bike to a friend, if such a case arise, and have asked him to look after my bike till the time I'm away.
if the parts don't come on time, maybe I'll let the issue be, and decide to live with it until it pains me again.

Originally Posted by Rocketscience

While i totally agree that they should have fixed it sooner but the very fact that they had issued an recall, they promptly attended you and finally understood the issue, they actually had the equipment to test the vibrations (a first in India i have seen) and are agreeing to fix the bike is a huge win in my books.
Even my R15v3 has vibrations yet no one even remotely notices it let alone acknowledge it, test it or fix it, i'd say you sit tight and this should definitely be fixed sooner than later in my opinion. Good luck.

@Rocketscience, yup that's my biggest concern. I really don't want to open up the engine, unless I'm sure that this would solve the problem.
I'm frankly surprised that R15 get away with this much vibrations. Like, it's barely pointed out during the reviews, because the reviewers get the bike completely new, and that is devoid of any vibrations. But once you begin to use the vehicle, you notice the vibrations start creeping in, with every kilometre you run. This was mostly the reason why I didn't look at many pre-owned R15v3's.

Originally Posted by VijayAnand1

Bad harmonics lead to vibrations, and vibrations coupled with uneven harmonics induce stress points and stress points would mean, an engine that can go kaboom. Excessive vibes would spit the balancer shaft right out of the engine, and that'd be a mess on the road. Now, will all these happen? Perhaps yes, there is a 60% probability that this can very much happen. The other 40% is how long till the stress accumulates until it gives up.

I would suggest you take it proactively and take it easy. Engine claim, and repair are an arduous, time consuming and basically a red tape. When an engine strip down is the procedure that has to be carried, patience goes a long way which I know is hard and emotionally a constant bugging factor. Kudos to Suzuki for actually acknowledging and having an instrument to test it. How many Indian manufacs do even attend to such cases or even have listening ear? Bleak!

These are the two cents I'd like to add, rest I leave it to experts.

Good luck.

Cheers!
VJ

@VijayAnand1, good point. Do you think the company would replace the engine if that happens within 5 years. I have taken the extended warranty plan as a contigency plan for these kinds of issues.

Originally Posted by karanddd

Did the vibrations issue not dissuade you from buying the bike? Suzuki might be able to work some magic here, but I would be wary of having the engine opened up.

@karanddd, no at all man, I was mainly comparing this with a pre-owned R15 v3, and a Dominar, which I was getting at around 10K lesser price. The other two were consideriably more vibey compared to Gixxer. I absolutely love the machine, it's been crafted well. Though, I feel this is one issue that I should take care of.

@gauravanekar, @Rocketscience, @Cyborg, @VijayAnand1 -
Thank you for your advise gentleman.
I think the next step for me is to actually understand the disassembly process. If just the side casing has to be opened up, then I guess I can go ahead with the parts change. If that's not the case, then I'll sit on this issue as I don't want to get the entire engine( cylinder head) opened.

[PioneerNB]

Hi Subodh,
I totally empathise with you. I had a wonderful machine, a GS150R, it's the perfect bike even now for me. After 2 years of ownership the guys at Suzuki told that there is knocking sound from engine and I must get it repaired, post repair the bike has never been the same and I had to sell it off within a year due to the issue reoccurring. During this period I visited all major service centers in Pune and really none of them were equipped with the skill set to make such delicate repairs.

Why should my story matter to you- your machine is a wonderful one which is very modern, please confirm with the service center if the mechanic allocated is trained to work of you bike. Suzuki as a manufacturer is amazing but as a service provider lacks at many places. And once engine is opened the bike is never the same even if put back together in the best possible manner

[Rocketscience]

Originally Posted by SubodhRage

@Rocketscience, yup that's my biggest concern. I really don't want to open up the engine, unless I'm sure that this would solve the problem.
I'm frankly surprised that R15 get away with this much vibrations. Like, it's barely pointed out during the reviews, because the reviewers get the bike completely new, and that is devoid of any vibrations. But once you begin to use the vehicle, you notice the vibrations start creeping in, with every kilometre you run. This was mostly the reason why I didn't look at many pre-owned R15v3's.

Actually no, the bike has had these vibrations from day 1, my bike has actually ran just around 3500 kms in around 3 years, exactly 2 reviewers pointed out this exact issue and even the exact rpms when it gets worse (5k and 7k respectively), its just no one really bothers from these apart from me i guess, or have set their bar really low.

Originally Posted by SubodhRage

@gauravanekar, , @Cyborg, @VijayAnand1 -
Thank you for your advise gentleman.
I think the next step for me is to actually understand the disassembly process. If just the side casing has to be opened up, then I guess I can go ahead with the parts change. If that's not the case, then I'll sit on this issue as I don't want to get the entire engine( cylinder head) opened.

There is no chance of replacing the balancer shaft from just the side case, those actually house the clutch assembly, oil pump, alternator, gears for timing, for starter motor etc, if the balancer shaft could be replaced this easily it would be the first i would see. Anyways you can hope for the best or be present there the entire time they do it.