[ebonho]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

Not necessarily. I mean, I don't know about high speeds. But by the time a bike with 500 km range happens, I expect charging speeds and infra will also have become more accessible. At that point, nothing's going to stop your cross country travels with that kind of range other than issues with the bike.

Personally the most I've ever done is around 500km in a day. My tolerance threshold is lower. After a certain point, it just becomes junk, uninvolved zombie miles for me. So, I don't really care about 1000+ km days.

If you live in Poona or Bangalore, and want to ride to the mountains, and are a working man, you need to cover junk plains miles quickly. I do not like transporting my bikes. Miserable experience.

The ratio of junk miles to mountain miles is usually 3:1 for the north and 4:1 for the north east.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Goodbye to 1000+ km days in the saddle or the car.

I have made several long distance trips to destinations that are 500+ miles away. This is only possible when there is an extensive existing charging network. This needs to precede the full scale sale of EVs. Else its a chicken and egg problem. At the least someone needs to show the money that they are ready to invest, and a map of the chargers that is coming up with the completion dates. And, that needs to be months away, not years or decades. The chargers need to be in tens of thousands. Even in pure capitalism - Govt. needs to innovate, pick multiple winners, and facilitate investments. Little more than PR. (which is also needed to get public support)

The issue I see is too many startups and small businessmen selling EVs that they had someone in China build for them. These companies cant hold the fort for too long to fight the long and hard battle against the petrochem conglomerates and the ICE mammoths.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by ebonho

If you live in Poona or Bangalore, and want to ride to the mountains, and are a working man, you need to cover junk plains miles quickly. I do not like transporting my bikes. Miserable experience.

The ratio of junk miles to mountain miles is usually 3:1 for the north and 4:1 for the north east.

For that, good old ICE bikes to the rescue. I hear you'll run into battery issues in sub zero temperatures with Li-ion batteries. So, these wont be reliable ride for the Himalayas.

But I've never been to the mountains up north. The south's kept me satisfied so far. There's still many things of interest for me here.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

For that, good old ICE bikes to the rescue. I hear you'll run into battery issues in sub zero temperatures with Li-ion batteries. So, these wont be reliable ride for the Himalayas.

But I've never been to the mountains up north. The south's kept me satisfied so far. There's still many things of interest for me here.

Or like petrol pumps, there will be battery stations.

Where you ride or drive in and hand over your spent battery and pick up a fully charged one for a refill fee.

Something like LPG cylinders. The cylinders belong to the company. You get a new cylinder (battery) with every new vehicle purchased and registered.

The battery (or removable chip like a sim card) will need to be linked digitally (with a barcode or security encryption or some such) with the vehicle permanently so that when you junk the vehicle you cannot keep the battery as an extra (which will then give rise to hoarding and people selling extra batteries in black).

The government (or world governments) will need to legislate to make battery standards that are common and interchangeable across continents, countries and markets. So that regardless of the vehicle you buy, the battery infrastructure remains common and useable by all.

This will be very strongly resisted and lobbied against by industry because like Mac and Windows, they want a monopoly and for the buyer to be locked into their ecosystem permanently. Like what Tesla is doing with first mover advantage. He is playing for huge stakes.

Either you make batteries common. Or personal vehicles and transportation dies and everyone rents a vehicle from a common pool.

Cheers, Doc

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Or like petrol pumps, there will be battery stations.

Where you ride or drive in and hand over your spent battery and pick up a fully charged one for a refill fee.

Something like LPG cylinders. The cylinders belong to the company. You get a new cylinder (battery) with every new vehicle purchased and registered.

The battery (or removable chip like a sim card) will need to be linked digitally (with a barcode or security encryption or some such) with the vehicle permanently so that when you junk the vehicle you cannot keep the battery as an extra (which will then give rise to hoarding and people selling extra batteries in black).

Swapping batteries has their own set of issues, every car has its own battery size, example a small EV may come with 20kwh, nexon ev with 30kwh and all sizes up to 150kwh for different class of vehicles. If you standardize 20kwh battery, a person using a Taycan needs to change 5 battery packs.

Just like in ICE engines(high octane fuels), a Porsche wants best battery to its customers, with best BMS, best cells, best cooling system, while Tata has different set of customers.

We have a good standardization already implemented in Europe in the form of CCS charging plug, you are not tied to any ecosystem, charge your car at your preferred station, works right from a small EV to luxury EVs.

Driving for 300km, taking a food and charging break of 30mins on your once or twice a year road trip should not be a problem for most people, even on ICE cars people tend to stop for 30-40mins after every 4-5 hours of driving. Those <1%( of car driving population) who drive for 1000+ km without a break should avoid EVs.

[TheHelix0202]

Well articulated post! To answer your question, here goes: I’m only 20, and I do not intend to let go of ICE powered beauties until the end of time (mine, or my potential vehicles’, or the arrival of potential govt. regulations to change something).

I only have my first motorcycle with me as of now, a 150. I plan on climbing up the rungs of the CC and type ladders of the motorcycling world, and I shan’t be quelled until I own a sufficient garage of petrol machines that make my soul feel fuzzy and warm on its deathbed.

Note: I’m not arguing for or against the advent of EVs, I’m just stating my personal preference.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

Swapping batteries has their own set of issues, every car has its own battery size, example a small EV may come with 20kwh, nexon ev with 30kwh and all sizes up to 150kwh for different class of vehicles.

A 50Kwh battery would probably weigh around 200kgs, so a 150kwh battery would be 600kgs. Then, the life and speed of charge greatly depends on the ability of the BMS to heat or cool the battery as needed. All of which needs sophisticated temperature control systems. Swapping means lots of mechanical movement, which means wear and tear leading to reliability issues.

Swapping may be possible for small batteries for 2 wheelers with temperature control somehow being handled externally. It seems impossible for the large car batteries that are currently in use.

[EV NXT]

This thread reminds me of the parable of a group of blind men who come across an elephant and imagine what the elephant could be:



Predicting the future on timelines, economic scenarios, customer preferences and the like is a guessing game at best.

[Thermodynamics]

Last week I rode a motorcycle 20 km inside city to procure some items. It was out of stock and I had to travel further 20 km to get it. Everything cannot be planned in terms of range.

[Rocketscience]

Practically speaking, EVs do seem like the future but bringing the cost to at par with ICE powered vehicles is a huge challenge, not saying it can never happen but it is sometime away, till then ICE is the way to go especially since batteries eventually die and the cost of replacement for most vehicles is much more than what you would normally spend on an average car where the only things you replace are apart from Brake pads, suspension which is common with EVs too is Clutch kit, filters and oil, even in 10 years they don't amount to more than 80k - 1 Lakh in mainstream cars, a battery can cost many times as much.

Then coming to the cheap running cost which is a big draw for most people but I strongly feel governments around the world won't just let go off this major source of income, once ICE cars start dying I'am confident they will start charging different electricity prices for charging EVs with perhaps a different meter for this application and will make it illegal to not follow this.

If this does not happen and the battery longevity and price is taken care of, which at current pace is just a matter of time, then there is nothing stopping EVs but I doubt the future to be this bright/easy/smooth.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

Swapping means lots of mechanical movement, which means wear and tear leading to reliability issues.

True, also after 10 years when the battery tech changes the swap stations should also maintain old batteries for older cars. Swapping may work for a particular brand like NIO, again if I am not wrong NIO maintains different battery configurations for their cheapest car to the costliest car.

[Grimlock]

I have nothing but hopes and dreams to add on to this thread.

For the foreseeable future, I hope that those hybrid engines that manufacturers like Kawasaki are developing on, see the light of day, are mass produced & make it onto vehicles soon. This balancing act would be the best of both worlds scenario for now.

That said, going fully electric seems inevitable and here I hope that there is headway made on development on solid state batteries and it percolates down to 2 wheelers. And by the time it becomes the norm, economy of scale helps brings the costs down to an accessible level.

Would run and happily get something like a Zero DSR in the future. Problem I see is, we see queues to just full up petrol today. I can't imagine what the scene will be like then.

[landcruiser123]

Barring a few riders, motorcycles in the developed world as weekend toys. They are ridden very less and go to remote roads. I wouldn't be worried about converting them to an EV. (Not going to happen in the next 20-30 years)

Low capacity motorcycles in the Indian subcontinent and SE Asia will see a shift to EVs with government mandates.

[antz.bin]

Its now time to make peace with the fact that it is almost time for the last hurrah! Its now time we found the one we would want to spend the next 10-15-20 years with and then fork out the cash for 'The One'.

Companies are already shutting down any further IC engine development. There is not going to be an 'all-new-much-better' engine now. Just about now is as good as it gets. We have 3 years tops to find out 'The One'.

10 years from now, all the latest and greatest will all be electric. It's immaterial if it is FCEV or BEV. One thing we can be sure of is that it will definitely not be ICE. We are lucky that we will still be able to enjoy the thrill of riding your own motorbike. The car guys probably won't even get to do that.

In the near future, I plan to start diving into the used bike segment and fulfil all my fantasies before I take the final plunge. That should give me enough perspective before going for 'The One'. How is that for a plan?

I have done a grand total of 1 * 1000+km days in my 18 years of motorcycling. About 10 days of 800+km. It is a rare enough event that we can plan around it on an electric ride 10-15 years from now. But until that happens, I would like to make sure I am covered.

[Mr.Ogre]

I am not jumping on to this EV bandwagon yet. I think it will take another 5 to 6 years for it to mature. I would be more than happy to buy an EV motorcycle as long as it does not take more than 10 minutes for a full charge that will give me an overall range of around 250 kilometres. Having said that acceleration should be sub 5 seconds 0-100 and as long as it can cruise at 150 km/hr I don't care about top speed. I am willing to spend AUD 15,000 for something like this now.