[aravind.anand]

Originally Posted by i_rock098

If you don't mind I would really love to read about what made you hate them so much that you would spend so much efforts in terms of critisizing them every chance you get especially in a thread which is not even about RE.

Whats up with the RE obsession?

Well, this thread isn't about RE, sure. But this thread is about its direct competitor, and i don't think talking about RE is entirely out of place on this thread. Also I think everyone is entitled for their opinion, so just relax

The Yezdis were slugging it out with the Bullet decades ago, and they both are still fighting it out today. And i am sure they will be fighting it out in the electric era decades later as well.

I will stop going off-topic right here, but let me just point something out for everyone - ebonho's TBHP DP is a Bullet!

[rahul4321]

Originally Posted by i_rock098

You really hate RE with a passion don't you? Like almost every post somehow ends up with how RE is a piece of metal crap.

If you don't mind I would really love to read about what made you hate them so much that you would spend so much efforts in terms of critisizing them every chance you get especially in a thread which is not even about RE.

Whats up with the RE obsession?

My 2 cents; I dont think its hate for RE but how old school was better.

I have actually noticed that Doc constantly says how much he prefers the D390 V1 to the current 390 V2 as well the Pre-UCE RE's (Cast Iron, Lean Burn etc) to the UCE RE's

Just someone who is a fan of how manufacturers made motorcycles in the past and doesnt like the ones being churned out right now.


But coming back to the topic on hand and I have mentioned this before; the Yezdi's are above average and if i was in the market for an ADV right now, i would definitely buy the Adventure over the Himalayan as it is just a better product overall

We cant compare chassis breakages. Not now. Maybe after Yezdi has 10000 Adventures on the road; the oldest of which has been put through Ladakh frontiers and preferably is rented out by a guided tour operator.

Then we can mix, match and compare. Right now, we absolutely cannot compare on that front.

[i_rock098]

Originally Posted by drt_rdr

^^ My friend, you seem to come across as a compulsive contrarian, a rebel without a cause, and someone looking to make mountains out of molehills. Chill.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions. The man's expressed his because the context called for it. And I don't see a word of untruth there. When someone calls a spade a spade, you seem to be seeing diamonds, hearts and clubs. I'm curious what your stake is in all this.

Not sure if you were talking about me but using words like rebel without a cause, compulsive contrarian and other adjectives when you know absolutely nothing about me is a little extreme when I have just asked a question as to what's the reason that every post is a negative one on something that's not even in the topic.

Infact I should ask you the question as to what's your stake in all of this that you are jumping to create a fight and instigating where there is none. What's your angle here when I did not use any unwanted adjectives against you?

So chill out dude.

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

Well, this thread isn't about RE, sure. But this thread is about its direct competitor, and i don't think talking about RE is entirely out of place on this thread. Also I think everyone is entitled for their opinion, so just relax

The Yezdis were slugging it out with the Bullet decades ago, and they both are still fighting it out today. And i am sure they will be fighting it out in the electric era decades later as well.

I will stop going off-topic right here, but let me just point something out for everyone - ebonho's TBHP DP is a Bullet!

True nothing wrong in it, I just noticed that there was a pattern that every single post somehow ended up in criticism of RE and it's rare that someone hates a brand with so much passion so was curious as to what's the story behind it.

Originally Posted by rahul4321

My 2 cents; I dont think its hate for RE but how old school was better.

I have actually noticed that Doc constantly says how much he prefers the D390 V1 to the current 390 V2 as well the Pre-UCE RE's (Cast Iron, Lean Burn etc) to the UCE RE's

Just someone who is a fan of how manufacturers made motorcycles in the past and doesnt like the ones being churned out right now.

Fair enough, I understand the passion, just felt it was going a little extreme so thought I understand the reason for it if there is one.

[petrolhead_neel]

Originally Posted by i_rock098

You really hate RE with a passion don't you? Like almost every post somehow ends up with how RE is a piece of metal crap.

If you don't mind I would really love to read about what made you hate them so much that you would spend so much efforts in terms of critisizing them every chance you get especially in a thread which is not even about RE.

Whats up with the RE obsession?

That is because his disappointment is very real. People like Doc, who rode pre-UCE Bullets and did everything on them (tour, race, scramble) rightfully find the current generation of Enfields underwhelming and overrated. Royal Enfield built an entire brand from the image built by these old-school hard core Bulleteers. Two decades(?) and millions of motorcycle sales later, a very reasonable expectation is motorcycles that are not just commuters right off the showroom floor.

I grew up with the most mainstream cookie cutter Enfield, my father's BS3 Classic 350, and even with its hundred and one problems, I still really like riding it. I grew up trying to like Royal Enfield. That really started happening when the Himalayan came out, and became substantial after I rode the 650 twins.

My father has always wanted a Himalayan. We have both ridden it and it seems to fit his riding style quite well (moderately fast, rides everything from highways to river banks and gravel roads, doesn't care about vibrations or the lack of it). But that is until the chassis falls apart. How can I, as his son who's going off to college to another part of the country, rest assure that he will be safe with a Himalayan? I really do not let these things cloud my mind when I ride. But how can you not? It's been 6 years since the Himalayan came out and these problems started, and instead of being completely gone, they have now started appearing on their top end 650s.

Royal Enfield has the resources to make truly world class motorcycles. Like the Fortnine review of the 650 said... dual sports, super sports, crusiers, all of it. Once in a while, they come pretty close (like the engine on the 650).

The Yezdis are superior adventure machines. It is very disheartening to see the Scrambler getting negative reviews and being compared to the Classic 350 and the Honda CB350. If you ride off road, you will know that the Yezdi is jumps ahead, literally. The effort deserves more credit, and not be overshadowed by the emotion-induced humongous sales figures of the Enfields. As enthusiasts, the onus is on us to make way and be more welcoming towards projects like this.

Not to sound pretentious, but I am really curious to know about people's expectations when it comes to reviving a brand. They are building a new motorcycle, transitioning from 2S to 4S and the design and branding are a nod to what the yesteryear Yezdis used to be. I think that's cool enough. But I am not someone who has seen the Yezdis growing up.

Also, can someone please confirm if all the buttons on the Scrambler are functional? If some of them are dummy buttons, that will be such a terrible design flaw, especially on a minimal motorcycle like this. The stickers are easier to fix/get rid of.

Neel

[drt_rdr]

Mod Note : Personal attacks on fellow BHPians & rude posts are STRICTLY prohibited on Team-BHP. All members are part of the Team-BHP family, and any discriminating or derogatory comment will NOT be permitted.

Please ALWAYS be civil, polite & respectful to other members...even in debate.

We advise you to read the Forum Rules before proceeding any further.

Thanks for the support & understanding

[i_rock098]

Mod Note : Personal attacks on fellow BHPians & rude posts are STRICTLY prohibited on Team-BHP. All members are part of the Team-BHP family, and any discriminating or derogatory comment will NOT be permitted.

Please ALWAYS be civil, polite & respectful to other members...even in debate.

We advise you to read the Forum Rules before proceeding any further.

Thanks for the support & understanding

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by petrolhead_neel

I am really curious to know about people's expectations when it comes to reviving a brand. They are building a new motorcycle, transitioning from 2S to 4S and the design and branding are a nod to what the yesteryear Yezdis used to be. I think that's cool enough. But I am not someone who has seen the Yezdis growing up.

The himalayan really jumpstarted the adventure bike market here. But since then, we've barely had any satisfactory, affordable, performance-oriented alternatives from our homegrown makers. TVS is meandering about, still peddling its roadracing shtick. Bajaj is still trying to fix the pulsar and dominar up. Hero's the real hero among this lot, delivering the xpulse. But promise of the X300 still remains a promise.

So, I'm really happy that Yezdi's come and done what it's done. Personally, I'm not really interested in the brand since it's not original one anyway. I'm just interested in the motorcycles. And good, practical motorcycles they appear to be.

The scrambler and adventure doing well would also egg more manufacturers to bring in competing bikes sooner and Yezdi to up their game faster. So, in that sense, I hope the brand does well even though they won't make a customer out of me.

[navin_v8]

Any motorcycle breaching 300cc and launched in India will inadvertently end up being compared to RE irrespective of the category. There are numerous threads on our beautiful forum proof to this phenomenon. "RE and what it does to you" can be seen in many posts, both positive and negative. This is never going to stop. In the retro classic category there are just two manufacturers in India at present who are offering options in RE's price range, Honda CB350(I refuse to call it H'ness) and CL's Jawa and recently Yezdi. RE had a monopoly from 2010 up until recently in the retro classic category in India. I believe RE still has a monopoly considering the numbers CL Jawa and Honda CB350 are doing. We only have to wait and watch to see what numbers CL Yezdi is doing.

Being owning 5 RE's from different era's/genres from G2, B1, AVL, UCE, etc. I would say that all these engines were fine and each had its own character and charm. There is no meaning comparing them to each other as all the different. In the hindsight I would be happy to see more competition for RE from other retro classic motorcycle manufacturing companies. Before and after Independence up until the demise to British Motorcycling industry RE did have tough competition from BSA, Ariel, Matchless, Triumph, Sunbeam, Norton, etc. Given that most British motorcycle companies are dead, a similar competition from the Japanese Big 4 offering us their erstwhile UJM 300+cc models would be great. Easier said than done, as competing with RE would mean they have localize their manufacturing to keep the costs in check else those options will end up being twice or thrice the price of RE's (read Triumph Bonneville, Kawasaki W800, etc.). Kudos to Honda as they at least offered us their UJM model CB350 as an option. Likewise CL too is giving options to choose from but they need to improve their dealer network and service levels to bring in more potential customers. Similarly RE's twin 650 models are unchallenged in the Indian market and to a certain extent in foreign market both cost and retro classic option wise. It would be great to see some competition for the 650 twins as well.

From most of the reviews I have seen and heard about CL's Yezdi offerings, one thing that caught my attention was the FTC (Flat Torque Curve) characteristic of the Perak derived engine (bored out version of the erstwhile Mahindra Mojo). I am a big fan of FTC as it suits my riding style. I love to feel the locomotive like acceleration without the engine jerking due to FTC. Will need to check this out in person when I go for a test ride or ride a friends' CL Yezdi. If anyone has experienced this during their test ride kindly do share your experiences.

[surjaonwheelz]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

The KP showroom was expecting them only in Feb btw so maybe they have the bikes now.

Originally Posted by sukiwa

I will ask Surja to talk with you when you two meet this week.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Have you ridden them? Let's meet up there and ride them. Would be nice to catch up too.

Hey Doc,

I called up the KP showroom, they still don't have the test ride bikes! It won't be possible for me to visit other showrooms this month.

We'll connect soon.

surjaonwheelz

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by surjaonwheelz

Hey Doc,

I called up the KP showroom, they still don't have the test ride bikes! It won't be possible for me to visit other showrooms this month.

We'll connect soon.

surjaonwheelz

Sure. No worries.

Saves me the trouble of cleaning out my DMS's and jacket for now.

The riding pants my son just used so no cobwebs there.

Cheers, Doc

[KayEss]

Don't want to get into any protracted discussions here, primarily because I know they lead to nowhere. However as somebody who used to ride bullets, one who grew out of the cult that RE is, I can definitely say that I hate the company for the way it exploits the acolytes.

That being said, as an old bulleteer, i still do find myself drawn to, say, a new spanking CL350 in halcyon green, but that notwithstanding, I do believe that I hate the company with a passion not unlike ebonoho's.

It's just how it is. Motorcycling indeed is a crime of passion even though I have never let myself anthropomorphise any of my motorcycles.

P. S: i deliberately didn't go into the specifics so as not to feel encumbered to take the thread forward. But suffice it to say, my grouse is with both the company as well the way of the cult that excludes, demonises or belittles (any of these varyingly) other motorcycles.

P. P. S: The way of the cult is also intoxicating as, once in, you are in that self assured vision of motorcylcing utopia.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by i_rock098

Whats up with the RE obsession?

Neither aspect of RE... either the blind fanboyism nor just bad quality is an unknown factor. When someone who has owned a motorcycle, rode it around the country, raced it, etc. for decades says something about that bike / brand... I for one sit up and listen. It is in only recent times that we have seen some focus on developing new products (not without some major issues, but at least they tried) and not just be about that machogiri, soul stirring dug dug crap

So when a competitor jumps in the fray and actually produces something that seems to check most, if not all boxes... the comparison is obvious; no?

IMO, instead of just making a sweeping statement, provide your rebuttal... point by point if you'd like. Maybe we will all learn something new, as opposed to this randomness

[Peri_patetic99]

Originally Posted by i_rock098

You really hate RE with a passion don't you? Like almost every post somehow ends up with how RE is a piece of metal crap.

If you don't mind I would really love to read about what made you hate them so much that you would spend so much efforts in terms of critisizing them every chance you get especially in a thread which is not even about RE.

Whats up with the RE obsession?

It's not that he always tries to indicate that RE is a piece of metal crap, it's just a different feeling altogether. RE built their entire brand based on the umpteen number of bullet riders who went to different places throughout India and could easily rely on their machine to not break down anywhere. they have a legacy to fulfill now, but as it is with every brand, growth and the demand for more growth is inevitable so somewhere the charm, reliability and "built like a gun" quality has been deteriorating. They have had many opportunities and ample time to fix the issues with the Himalayan's chassis, the 650 twins' quality issues and more, but they mostly chose to ignore that simply because there is a lack of competition.

I'd much rather prefer to get a bike that is built to last, and for someone who's lived through that era where RE was a status symbol, it's tough to see them going in a different direction than what people expect them to go in( for example, the new classics were built for the masses and not for the old bullet lovers, they have less vibrations and more features, but the distinctive exhaust sound and the looks(subjective, I like it but there are plenty of people who preferred the older looks because it added to the retro appeal), and the vibrations( which are somehow still associated with that old school character). all this has alienated a certain part of the customer base, and they're right too when they express their opinions on this.

there are threads on team bhp where you can observe many older cars( when being maintained well) still serving the purpose without any major issues, it's tough to tell whether today's current crop of cars and bikes will last that long because they come with more gizmos and less quality( like the Skoda-VAG, Korean twins, Jawa, even premium brands like Mercedes and Audi sometimes skimp on quality on their starting range because they don't want to undercut the larger vehicles, heck even Toyota has started to sell products with less quality like the urban cruiser and the glanza just for more sales). I bought the cb350 believing in Honda's quality, and while I haven't faced any major issues so far, I still cannot tell about the long-term reliability seeing some of the other owners facing more serious issues( paint chipping on new ones, bigwing lapses especially with the oil issue and more).

So, even I would agree with a part of the doc's sentiment that older vehicles( especially RE) were better and criticize the current trend of just putting in features to attract more people instead of focussing on smaller but important details like better quality. Yezdi has a chance of making a comeback now, if they improve the quality on these bikes then they can successfully differentiate and compete with RE and honda.

[drt_rdr]

Originally Posted by navin_v8

Given that most British motorcycle companies are dead, a similar competition from the Japanese Big 4 offering us their erstwhile UJM 300+cc models would be great.

There was recent news about the Bajaj-Triumph small capacity model. I'm sure TVS is busy making it's own answer with Norton. And Yezdi's supposedly got a roadking based model in the pipeline. So, things are looking interesting on this front.

But yeah, I would absolutely love to see 300-400cc UJMs in our market. The Kawasaki Zephyrs are some of the most beautiful bikes ever to my eyes.

Though the CB350 bikes appear UJM styled, the power delivery and the kind of go they have are a bit disappointing. Would love to see makers take another go at these style of bikes with 250-300cc engines with peppy performance rather than relaxed. Let's say a theoretical Pulsar Classic 300, a Suzuki GS300R, Honda Unicorn 300, Yamaha RX-F 300 (F for four stroke), something like these would rock my world.

FTC (Flat Torque Curve) characteristic of the Perak derived engine...If anyone has experienced this during their test ride kindly do share your experiences.

I can't really say I paid any attention to this during my test ride. Could possibly be the case since I was revving out the bike in the lower gears, looking for more grunt but it didn't come as fast as I wanted.

But going by petrolhead_neel's account of how you're riding waves of torque on the scrambler, there might be something for you here.

[HTC]

Guys,
We petrol heads are a passionate, emotional fools. Each of your posts have valuable inputs and insights related to the products discussed here. With such a diverse croud here, it is very difficult for two members to have their thought process or view point in same frequency. So let's respect each others view points and move on. Afterall we are all part of one extended family, ie T-BHP.

Coming to Yezdi's, due credit to Classic Legends for launching not one, not two but three models in one shot. Just imagine the pain we had to go through if they had taken the launch plan like hero or honda does. Years together of frustration to see the final product.

Myself, being owner of both old school bikes - Yezdi Roadking and last gen cast iron Bullet Electra, I do have my observations. They dont build bikes they used to in the olden days. Bullet was always a superior product even in those days. It was 4 stroke, while yezdi was 2 stroke. It was costly compared to yezdi. Only rich and landlords could afford bullets then. It was more of a social statement than practicality. But now, with level playing field in terms of norms set by govt, both are equally pitted against each.

Bullet got a cult following as adventurous people did not have other options then to go on long rides. Something which can carry hell lot of luggage. Strong and heavy enough to weld and add additional luggage carriers. Good low end torque and comfortable seats for two. I still remember my dad let go of chance to buy RD350 from his friend as the quote 19k was too high even then(90s). At that time new Yezdi's were retailing between 13k-15k. I got my used 94 model yezdi for 6k. This was before the craze for classics had started. I spent around 10k for more rims, tyres and service. The engine is a gem. It picks up speed like crazy. I have done many mysore- bangalore rides on yezdi. It holds speed in 3 digits comfortably. Since to be on safer side and enjoy the ride, I cruise at 60-70 kmph speeds on Yezdi.

As the saying -"If you want to succeed, you have to get started", Classic legend has to start some where. RE has the advantage here. They started 20 years ago. I still remember, RE showrooms giving bikes for weekend trips for free. This was in 2006-07 timeframes. With their TRIP campaign, they built a good following. Same had to be done by CL keeping quality and experience as central themes. I am sure they will succeed if they try. For now, they have the brand and bikes. Rest is left to them as to how they play it.

Let's wait and watch.


Drive safe and have fun
HTC..