[CzechItaliaMoto]

I googled this, and the parivahan website says for 16 year olds MCWOG vehicle class is given. I think they have removed the 50cc cap, attaching link below-

https://parivahan.gov.in/parivahan//...le-i-can-apply

[Christian]

Originally Posted by CzechItaliaMoto

I googled this, and the parivahan website says for 16 year olds MCWOG vehicle class is given. I think they have removed the 50cc cap, attaching link below-

https://parivahan.gov.in/parivahan//...le-i-can-apply

Yeah, I saw this too. No matter how much I look, I can't find any official sources stating that the maximum engine cap is 50cc, but in the Parivahan site there's no engine class specified. I'm very confused

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by Christian

Yeah, I saw this too. No matter how much I look, I can't find any official sources stating that the maximum engine cap is 50cc, but in the Parivahan site there's no engine class specified. I'm very confused

What did you finally end up doing?
I am in the same boat for my son and it looks like I have 3 options:
1. Less than 25kmph vehicles. These cost about 60k and I feel these could be dangerous on main roads. These are good for grocery runs around the house. So I would like avoid this if possible. Also 60k for this, I am not sure if it's a good investment as all players are mostly integrators using Chinese kits - support could be an issue.

2. Some websites say that 16 year olds can ride escooters limited to 70kmph with a license. This is a better option than (1), but again not many established players in this market.

3. The big three (ather, ola, hero). Based on the parivahan site, a 16 year old can get a license for 'motorcycle without gear '. Can anyone confirm if this is really true?

I would like option 3, as this means that we can use the scooter for a good decade with all the support available. But I don't want to buy the vehicle and then realise he can't drive it.

[antz.bin]

Similar predicament for my nephew who turned 16 this month.

He got his licence from RTO last week but it specifically mentions vehicle description as MC50CC. As we all know that there are no vehicles that match this description.

I saw the situation and suddenly understood why suddenly Yamaha R15/MT15 are the top selling 150cc motorcycles instead of the cheaper options like Apache or Pulsar. The teens of today have been restricted so badly due to these sub 25kmph e scooters that when they finally break free from their shackles at 18, the fathers HAVE TO get them the best of the best just to compensate.

I wonder why nobody is making anything for this audience. Someone like Ather or Ola can make a vehicle that comes restricted to Eco mode from factory specially for teenagers which can be unlocked for a fee when they submit their license on an app /experience centre when they turn 18. Could be a great customer acquisition strategy to catch them young and turn them into voltheads for life!

[fordday]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

Someone like Ather or Ola can make a vehicle that comes restricted to Eco mode from factory specially for teenagers which can be unlocked for a fee when they submit their license on an app /experience centre when they turn 18. Could be a great customer acquisition strategy to catch them young and turn them into voltheads for life!

What a great idea! Hope right people are listening to this and will act on it.

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

.
I wonder why nobody is making anything for this audience. Someone like Ather or Ola can make a vehicle that comes restricted to Eco mode from factory specially for teenagers which can be unlocked for a fee when they submit their license on an app /experience centre when they turn 18. Could be a great customer acquisition strategy to catch them young and turn them into voltheads for life!

Is there a government rule on what the 'eco mode' means? If you mean to suggest 25kmph as the eco mode, then although I agree, there are too many challenges with this model. This also means that RTO needs to get involved during the unlocking and generate a seperate new RC card for the new specification.
In my opinion, this is never going to happen. There are too many operational challenges for a very small set of people.

[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

Is there a government rule on what the 'eco mode' means? If you mean to suggest 25kmph as the eco mode, then although I agree, there are too many challenges with this model. This also means that RTO needs to get involved during the unlocking and generate a seperate new RC card for the new specification.
In my opinion, this is never going to happen. There are too many operational challenges for a very small set of people.

25kmph is the tier that does not require any license. A Bicycle does not require a license. A 10 year old can ride a bicycle.

On turning 16, at least in Maharashtra, people are eligible for upto 50cc vehicles. 50cc 2 strokes of the yesteryears like TVS XL50, Bajaj Sunny, Hero Puch could do a max speeds of about 50-60 kmph. That is about the same as Normal mode for Ola and Eco Mode for Ather.

It is just wasteful for anyone to buy a cheap chinese-kit-made 25kmph scooter for their teenager for 2 years only to sell it off when they turn 18 for a massive loss and get them an R15 / Vespa. Instead they could just have their Olas and Athers locked to those speeds from factory and not need to sell them off in 2 years. The nominal fees I mentioned *was* exactly to get this endorsed with RTO. Why leave the market for cheap chinese scooters when you can have it for yourself? A modification is legal if it is endorsed in the RC, isn't it? I am writing to Ola and Ather today, maybe they can get their head around to get something like this done.

This is already done in some EU countries for people to ride their 600s and 1000s restricted to 47BHP so that they comply with A2 License requirements. They get their bikes derestricted once they have passed the next license exam.

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by antz.bin

I am writing to Ola and Ather today, maybe they can get their head around to get something like this done.

Good. I will support you in whatever way i can. Please do let me know via PM. Meanwhile, here is some information that I researched:

MORTH defines the following categories applicable to two wheelers:
1. Provided that a two wheeled battery operated vehicle shall not be deemed to be a motor vehicle if all the following conditions are verified and authorised by any testing agency specified in rule 126, namely,
(a) vehicle is equipped with an electric motor having thirty minute power less than 0.25 KW;
(b) maximum speed of the vehicle is less than 25 km/hr;
(c) vehicle is fitted with suitable brakes and retro-reflective devices, i.e. one while reflector in the front and one red reflector at the rear;
(d) unladen weight (excluding battery weight) of the vehicle is not more than 60 kg;
(e) in case of pedal assisted vehicle equipped with an auxiliary electric meter, in addition to above, the thirty minute power o f t h e m o t o r i s less than 0 .25 KW, whose output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/hr, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling.

2. A category called L-1 which according to https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f...chapter1_1.pdf is "a motorcycle with maximum speed not exceeding 45 km/h and engine capacity not exceeding 50 cc, if fitted with a thermic engine or motor power exceeding
0.5 kilowatt if fitted with electric motor

An addendum for the above has been made in 2018 Dec as below:
‘(i) “Category L1” means a motor cycle or a light two wheeled powered vehicle with maximum speed not exceeding 70 kilometer per hour and engine capacity not exceeding 50cc if fitted with a thermic engine or motor power not exceeding 4.0 kilowatts if fitted with electric motor.’
Source: https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f...se_parking.pdf

3. "Category L-2" means a motor cycle other than Category L-1;

Based on the above, my own conclusions are:
1. The No-license/RTO-less vehicles all represent the 1st bullet point above.
2. Ola/Ather/Vida etc mostly represent the third bullet point.
3. I am not sure which electric scooter suits the second point (Max Speed < 70; motor < 4kw).

Even if i find one such vehicle in category 3, (for example https://okinawascooters.com/buy-now/...s/ipraiseplus/) does this need to be homologated to indicate that it is a Category L-1 vehicle?

[antz.bin]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

2. A category called L-1 which according to https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f...chapter1_1.pdf is "a motorcycle with maximum speed not exceeding 45 km/h and engine capacity not exceeding 50 cc, if fitted with a thermic engine or motor power exceeding
0.5 kilowatt if fitted with electric motor

An addendum for the above has been made in 2018 Dec as below:
‘(i) “Category L1” means a motor cycle or a light two wheeled powered vehicle with maximum speed not exceeding 70 kilometer per hour and engine capacity not exceeding 50cc if fitted with a thermic engine or motor power not exceeding 4.0 kilowatts if fitted with electric motor.’
Source: https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f...se_parking.pdf

This is really good information! Finally some clarity on what exactly comes under the 50cc regulation.

Originally Posted by deep_bang

Even if i find one such vehicle in category 3, (for example https://okinawascooters.com/buy-now/...s/ipraiseplus/) does this need to be homologated to indicate that it is a Category L-1 vehicle?

This one seems to fit the L1 Category definition. I was checking out Bikewale and found these:
Revolt RV400 is 3 kW both rated and peak. That should work too. So should most Hero Electric, Ampere Greaves and Okinawa scooters with 25kmph < top speed < 60kmph.


Checked the following and most of them could make the cut but peak power keeps exceeding 4 kW.
Ola S1 Air makes 4.5 kW. The other 2 make even more.
Ather 450X is rated for 3.7 kW but peak output is 5.4 kW.
Tork Kratos is rated at 4 kW but peak power is 9 kW.
TVS iQube is rated at at 3 kW but peaks at 4.4 kW.
Chetak has a rated power of 3800W but peak of 4080W.
Vida V1 is rated for 3.9 kW but peak output is 6 kW so that won't work either.

But all of these *could* work (minus the OLAs) if they can be restricted by software to its rated power instead of peak power. I wonder how all of them missed this point. I mean Chetak is so close to that limit!

[Drivaholic@2727]

Originally Posted by deep_bang

Good. I will support you in whatever way i can. Please do let me know via PM. Meanwhile, here is some information that I researched:

MORTH defines the following categories applicable to two wheelers:
1. Provided that a two wheeled battery operated vehicle shall not be deemed to be a motor vehicle if all the following conditions are verified and authorised by any testing agency specified in rule 126, namely,
(a) vehicle is equipped with an electric motor having thirty minute power less than 0.25 KW;
(b) maximum speed of the vehicle is less than 25 km/hr;
(c) vehicle is fitted with suitable brakes and retro-reflective devices, i.e. one while reflector in the front and one red reflector at the rear;
(d) unladen weight (excluding battery weight) of the vehicle is not more than 60 kg;
(e) in case of pedal assisted vehicle equipped with an auxiliary electric meter, in addition to above, the thirty minute power o f t h e m o t o r i s less than 0 .25 KW, whose output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/hr, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling.

2. A category called L-1 which according to https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f...chapter1_1.pdf is "a motorcycle with maximum speed not exceeding 45 km/h and engine capacity not exceeding 50 cc, if fitted with a thermic engine or motor power exceeding
0.5 kilowatt if fitted with electric motor

An addendum for the above has been made in 2018 Dec as below:
‘(i) “Category L1” means a motor cycle or a light two wheeled powered vehicle with maximum speed not exceeding 70 kilometer per hour and engine capacity not exceeding 50cc if fitted with a thermic engine or motor power not exceeding 4.0 kilowatts if fitted with electric motor.’
Source: https://morth.nic.in/sites/default/f...se_parking.pdf

3. "Category L-2" means a motor cycle other than Category L-1;

Based on the above, my own conclusions are:
1. The No-license/RTO-less vehicles all represent the 1st bullet point above.
2. Ola/Ather/Vida etc mostly represent the third bullet point.
3. I am not sure which electric scooter suits the second point (Max Speed < 70; motor < 4kw).

Even if i find one such vehicle in category 3, (for example https://okinawascooters.com/buy-now/...s/ipraiseplus/) does this need to be homologated to indicate that it is a Category L-1 vehicle?

So can I use a TVS Iqube during my test?
Do let me know. Thanks.

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by Drivaholic@2727

So can I use a TVS Iqube during my test?
Do let me know. Thanks.

Iqube has a max speed rated at 78kmph. So I don't think it fits the bill for category 2 in my earlier post that 16 year olds can legally get a license for.

[arnav17]

Originally Posted by Christian

Thank you all for your help, regarding the debate between whether I can ride any petrol scooter or not, I did call the Ernakulam RTO and ask them about it, to which they replied you can ride anything as long as it's gearless if you have your learners,

Hi, any update on the following? Turning 16 next month, wanted to know if learner's license permits driving of a 125cc gearless scooter.