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Old 28th July 2022, 19:03   #1
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Default Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Before starting, i'm putting up the latest picture of my bike. I washed it after a long time and it does look good with all plastic parts in place.

Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?-20220723_191203.jpg

Its a 2015 Hero Karizma ZMR V2 with fuel injector and digital instrument cluster with close to 40,000km on the ODO. I did not serviced the bike properly in the last 2-3 years other than regular engine oil replacement. Due to poor maintenance and age, the bike is in terrible mechanical condition and need a major overhaul. This is partly due to my DIY engine oil refilling back in 2019. I overfilled the engine oil more than the max limit and drove the bike on highway for more than 200km at 80+km in full throttle even after the bike refused to move at low speeds . I took the bike to Hero Service center next day and they flushed the excess oil, cleaned Air filter. But all the problem started from there one by one. I took the bike to multiple hero service centers and local mechanics, but after spending close to 20k, nothing worked and the bike was getting worse after every service. Pickup and throttle response was getting bad after every km and mileage deteriorated to 25kmpl. I'm getting an eye watering 220 to 250km range for every 1000rupees refill even when the bike is driven at speeds less than 60kmph.

I do not find any good bike similar to ZMR V2 for less than 2 lakhs presently in the market. Also 2Lakhs for a 2 wheeler doesn't sound good in my opinion. I'm in a confusion what to do with the bike, weather to completely restore it back to pre-DIY era or replace it with something else.

Long list of trouble below, looking forward your valuable suggestions and service center reference in and around Chennai,
  1. Heavy Vibration from engine. Vibrations are felt heavily on the foot pegs, handle bar and feeling numbness in most parts of the body even after a short 20km drive at low and high speeds. Case is even worse for pillion riders - completely removed engine from chassis and re-installed with new bolts in Hero service center & overhauled engine once in a local mechanic shop
  2. Very high engine noise
  3. Rattling noise from silencer/engine at speeds above 50kmph
  4. Poor acceleration during start and all speeds, literally have to shift down in some cases to pickup speed and acceleration in highways. Strange for a 20bhp, 20Nm bike
  5. Engine oil leak
  6. Top speed limited - Difficult and taking longer time to reach 3 figures
  7. Very low mileage - <25kmpl - very hard to digest after owing an electric bike which is literally free to drive in Tamilnadu
  8. Tight and Clutch - replaced clutch plates twice, no help
  9. Hard gear shifts - hearing hard thud sound for every shift
  10. Stuck gears - need to release clutch and re-engage after a short throttle to shift the gears most of the time
  11. Engine not settling in Idle - random RPM rise upto 1.8k RPM from 1k RPM
  12. Tight handle bar - hard to turn end-to-end in slow speed and in stationary
  13. Poor Throttle response
  14. Tight throttle cable
  15. Hard front Suspension and noise from suspension during braking
  16. Oil leak in left rear suspension
  17. Zero spring action in rear swing arm - don't know if it is only from faulty suspension
  18. Hard to move bike in gear with the clutch fully engaged - lot of rolling resistance
  19. Grinding noise from front to rear when the vehicle is moved in neutral - something is wrong with the chain and it is not aligned straight as well
  20. Front disc and brake pads
  21. Rear disc and brake pads
  22. Rear tubeless tyres to be replaced
  23. 75% of instrument display is blank in artificial light. Numbers and texts are visible during day light
  24. Lights need an upgrade
  25. Front left indicator and LED to be replaced - set. Indicator cannot be replaced separately. 750 rupees for one side -. Trust me, Hero spares are not cheap
  26. Horn will act randomly sometime

Strange thing is the bike starts well in very first ignition and runs even tough the ride is very shaky.

I am thinking of the following options,
  1. Completely restore the bike with all new parts in hero service center without worrying about the bills and keep the bike for the coming years till the FC expires
  2. Take it to a local mechanic and arrest holes here and there and hope it will run for next few years
  3. Sell it for few thousands and buy a 125CC commuter with 100kmpl mileage for 1Lakhs
Thanks in Advance!

Last edited by libranof1987 : 28th July 2022 at 19:39. Reason: Two smileys/post
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Old 28th July 2022, 20:19   #2
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

See if you can get a second hand karizma engine and plonk that in, should not cost too much money. Most of the issues you mentioned should be sorted barring the consumables like cables, suspension oil seals etc.

The hassle would be in getting the engine number update din the RC book.
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Old 28th July 2022, 20:47   #3
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Hi There,

Hero Honda Bikes are good VFM (BS4)
1. Chassis
2. Suspension
3. Electrical
4. Engine
5. Wheels.
Find a good reliable mechanic who does restore work
Not spark plug cleaning and priming the engine to flush out excess fuel in the Engine next door mechanics.
Excess vibration can be caused by engine, bent crank connecting rod
and all related mechanical parts.
There are several mechanical Engineering students, find some and get their help to dismantle your engine if they show interest. And do careful inspection of each parts.
Hero Motors, does have stock of old bike engine parts so no worries there.
Take your time, and find the right individuals who can work on your bike.
There are lots of Videos on the internet.
invest in tools, go out to the main market and get special tools for
Front Cone set replacement
Replace cone set with plastic ball race rings.
Engine magneto Puller
Engine Clutch housing dismantling tools
Self remove the front Suspension and take it to a good mechanic to service them.
Inspect your Carburetor, clean service with new gasket kit. Or replace.
Replace throttle cable.
Clutch cable.

Get new fuel injector
Fuel tank inspection cleaning
Check Wiring harness and connectors, get OEM replacement if need be. Peace of mind.
Wheels, bearings
See the Stock Tyres spec, get similar new ones. Clean and paint inside of the rims with epoxy primer hardener pre-mixed.

Do your best, it's always a joy to revive a good bike.
it's worth investing on your bike, it won't cost you a lot.
Best wishes.
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Old 28th July 2022, 20:48   #4
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by efuture View Post
Before starting, i'm putting up the latest picture of my bike. I washed it after a long time and it does look good with all plastic parts in place.

Attachment 2339412

Its a 2015 Hero Karizma ZMR V2 with fuel injector and digital instrument cluster with close to 40,000km on the ODO. I did not serviced the bike properly in the last 2-3 years other than regular engine oil replacement. Due to poor maintenance and age, the bike is in terrible mechanical condition and need a major overhaul. This is partly due to my DIY engine oil refilling back in 2019. I overfilled the engine oil more than the max limit and drove the bike on highway for more than 200km at 80+km in full throttle even after the bike refused to move at low speeds . I took the bike to Hero Service center next day and they flushed the excess oil, cleaned Air filter. But all the problem started from there one by one. I took the bike to multiple hero service centers and local mechanics, but after spending close to 20k, nothing worked and the bike was getting worse after every service. Pickup and throttle response was getting bad after every km and mileage deteriorated to 25kmpl . I'm getting an eye watering 220 to 250km range for every 1000rupees refill even when the bike is driven at speeds less than 60kmph.

I do not find any good bike similar to ZMR V2 for less than 2 lakhs presently in the market. Also 2Lakhs for a 2 wheeler doesn't sound good in my opinion. I'm in a confusion what to do with the bike, weather to completely restore it back to pre-DIY era or replace it with something else.

Long list of trouble below, looking forward your valuable suggestions and service center reference in and around Chennai,
[list=1][*]Heavy Vibration from engine. Vibrations are felt heavily on the foot pegs, handle bar and feeling numbness in most parts of the body even after a short 20km drive at low and high speeds. Case is even worse for pillion riders - completely removed engine from chassis and re-installed with new bolts in Hero service center & overhauled engine once in a local mechanic shop[*]Very high engine noise[*]Rattling noise from silencer/engine at speeds above 50kmph[*]Poor acceleration during start and all speeds, literally have to shift down in some cases to pickup speed and acceleration in highways. Strange for a 20bhp, 20Nm bike
.....

Thanks in Advance!
Hi there. The ZMR V2 engine is one of the most potent engines from the Hero stable since the JV had ended. Also, the V2 ZMR was developed with inspiration from the flagship model of the Buell 1190 line (Hero MotoCorp had bought EBR-Erik Buell Racing in hopes of expanding tech and resources). So as a result, the radical design was disapproved by Karizma purists, but radical compared to todays' commuter 250cc's which are priced at a percieved premium.

These are the plus points according to me :

(+) Your bike is a unique one. Styling wise, too. If you'll see, there's nothing alike on todays' roads. It looks cosmetically well maintained, so thats a plus for me.

(+) Its an agreeable fact that since the JV had ended, quality had gone down in Hero models. Since then like very other company does, Hero have kept improving their part quality, so getting new ones installed PROPERLY shouldn't be a problem. Since the basic engine architecture isn't a hard departure from the OG Karizma, workmanship too shouldn't be a problem. For this, I'd advise you to find a reputed FNG which has some experience working on this engine. There is a similar thread trending in the motorcycle section (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ml#post5366876 (15-year old Karizma submerged in flooded basement | EDIT: Now restored)). You can make out the costs from this situation.

This post might be detailed, but here's what I think the problems come from. I'll be listing them in order :


1.Heavy Vibration from engine - engine is feeling stressed. Maybe the resistance is from the inside. All the improper lubrication might have caused major abrasion on critical working parts such as the cylinder block, crankshaft, etc.
2.Very high engine noise - once again there is resistance against the working of the engone internals. Please take a thorough look at the internals, and replace them thoroughly.
3.Rattling noise from silencer/engine at speeds above 50kmph - Vibrations from the engine are passed on to the silencer mount point, which causes this. Improper connection at the cylinder head also has a part in this free movement.
4.Poor acceleration during start and all speeds, literally have to shift down in some cases to pickup speed and acceleration in highways. Strange for a 20bhp, 20Nm bike - once again, the internal resistance rears its ugly head.
5.Engine oil leak - a particular level of working pressure inside the engine has to be achieved for all the fluids to flow naturally. Improper engine oil levels might be the cause, causing the excess pressure to leak and bring oil out with it. Faulty/failed/degraded gaskets might be the issue too. Pls get it checked.
6.Top speed limited - Difficult and taking longer time to reach 3 figures - internal resistace is high, pls dont run the bike for longer periods at this stage. Get it checked asap.
7.Very low mileage - <25kmpl - very hard to digest after owing an electric bike which is literally free to drive in Tamilnadu - Same. Since internal resisance is high, the engine is taking in more fuel to produce required power, as opposed to the efficiency figures it was originally designed for.
8.Tight and Clutch - replaced clutch plates twice, no help - clutch springs need to be torqued to the spec. Pls get it checked.
9.Hard gear shifts - hearing hard thud sound for every shift - gears inside the gearbox are not aligned properly, since this is a constant mesh gearbox. The gears are in continous contact with each other for power transmission. Pls check the gear lever mechanism also. This also plays a crucial role in moving the gear rows.
10.Stuck gears - need to release clutch and re-engage after a short throttle to shift the gears most of the time - there might be an issue inside the gearbox with the dog clutches. These are present between each set of gears and help in selecting each speed. Pls get them checked.
11.Engine not settling in Idle - random RPM rise upto 1.8k RPM from 1k RPM - again, the ECU is trying to modulate the speed of the engine at a constant speed, but the internal resistance comes into play and the engine is working at random RPM's.
12.Tight handle bar - hard to turn end-to-end in slow speed and in stationary - pls get the cone set bearings replaced. They are situated under the triple tree.
13.Poor Throttle response - pls get the throttle body cleaned and pls get the injector cleaned too. See that the injector is cleaned carefully, because these keihin replacement units cost a bomb.
14.Tight throttle cable - pls check the mechanism beside the right hand switchgear. WD40 will help a lot.
15.Hard front Suspension and noise from suspension during braking - the oil inside the front forks may have done its job, and a replacement is pending. Requires an overhaul along with fresh fork oil.
16.Oil leak in left rear suspension - Hero uses GRS units which were first introduced on the Hunk. Its a proprietary technology, so chances of a rebuild are less. Buying a new one, or replacing the entire set with a similar gas charged set from Endurance might be the solution.
17.Zero spring action in rear swing arm - don't know if it is only from faulty suspension - faults point towards a bad supension setup.
18.Hard to move bike in gear with the clutch fully engaged - lot of rolling resistance - internal resistance.
19.Grinding noise from front to rear when the vehicle is moved in neutral - something is wrong with the chain and it is not aligned straight as well - pending wheel bearing replacement
20.Front disc and brake pads - consumables, replace. Check for scouring marks on the disc. Replace if present.
21.Rear disc and brake pads - consumables, replace. Check for scouring marks on the disc. Replace if present.
22.Rear tubeless tyres to be replaced - pls stick to stock size.
23.75% of instrument display is blank in artificial light. Numbers and texts are visible during day light - you can get the LCD unit revamped at a meter console repair shop. They exist, and you will find them.
24.Lights need an upgrade - Phillips/Osram H4 bulbs will do the trick.
25.Front left indicator and LED to be replaced - set. Indicator cannot be replaced separately. 750 rupees for one side -. Trust me, Hero spares are not cheap
26.Horn will act randomly sometime - either switch issue in the switchgear or the wiring issue. Some horns use a relay to be activated. I dont know if the V2 ZMR uses a relay, but pls find the weakpoint and get it replaced.

My 2 cents : keep the bike, get the work done, enjoy the bike for decades to come. Spending 2+L on something similar and getting disappointed is surely a waste of money and peace. Spend on the bike, keep it with you, hand it off below to a budding rider, and be happy.
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Old 28th July 2022, 21:30   #5
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Hi! There saitvsk23,
Greetings to you.

I honestly appreciate the time and effort to communicate in so much intricate details about this classic motor.
Sad, they don't make them anymore.

I have been busy restoring a 1989 Hero Honda CD 100 Classic.
All engine parts OEM( HERO HONDA) are available.
Clue: Take the suspect part from the bike to the Spares Department.
Let them see it, they know if it's good or bad.
They will help you get a replacement part, for sure.

Kind regards.
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Old 28th July 2022, 22:16   #6
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Pouring excess oil into the engine will invite more air into the engine chamber. The air and oil mixture, along with the fast rotating crankshaft will produce foam like substance which degrades the lubricating capacity of the engine oil at a large scale. Consequently due to the inefficient lubrication, the engine temperature will start to rise and the high temperatures might cause an engine lock, which is why your engine is resistive while you throttle.

I suggest a complete overhaul i.e. crank resetting, new cylinder kit and head valve re - setting at a proper lathe. If a proper mechanic handles the overhaul job, I'm certain it will be as good as new. Dont opt for reboring as no lathe guy will set perfect clearance. Do change the timing chain.
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Old 29th July 2022, 00:06   #7
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

I also forgot to mention, i have the entire parts catalogue with me for the V2 ZMR. Users who want it can PM me, I'll share the link with them. It's quite a large file. This catalogue has all the part numbers you'll need to source them, saving you the headache of finding and cross checking manually in the inventory of the dealer.
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Old 29th July 2022, 07:49   #8
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saitvsk23 View Post
I also forgot to mention, i have the entire parts catalogue with me for the V2 ZMR. Users who want it can PM me, I'll share the link with them. It's quite a large file. This catalogue has all the part numbers you'll need to source them, saving you the headache of finding and cross checking manually in the inventory of the dealer.
For the mod : couldn't fine the edit button, so I'm putting up a new reply here.

Parts catalogue for the new 2014 ZMR :

zmr_new_2014.pdf

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 29th July 2022 at 07:58. Reason: Uploaded to the attachments. Thanks!
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Old 29th July 2022, 11:01   #9
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqMaster View Post
See if you can get a second hand karizma engine and plonk that in, should not cost too much money.
Thanks TorqMaster, I think it will be expensive than getting new engine, since a good vehicle will cost atleast 50k here in Chennai. Used bikes are expensive in Tamilnadu compared to other places in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by joednazareth View Post
Find a good reliable mechanic who does restore work

There are several mechanical Engineering students, find some and get their help to dismantle your engine if they show interest. And do careful inspection of each parts.

it's worth investing on your bike, it won't cost you a lot.
Thanks joednazareth, If it is going to be a full fledged service, then I would like to do it in Hero authorized service center and replace all the parts instead of getting it serviced in a local lathe shop. Your suggestion is giving some confidence to go ahead with the restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by saitvsk23 View Post
Hi there.

My 2 cents : keep the bike, get the work done, enjoy the bike for decades to come. Spending 2+L on something similar and getting disappointed is surely a waste of money and peace. Spend on the bike, keep it with you, hand it off below to a budding rider, and be happy.
Hi saitvsk23, Thank you for your time and effort. I really appreciate your support here. Its clear now all the problem can be sorted if the engine is stripped and cleaned properly. Also I'll try to replace all the consumables, rubbers and gaskets to ensure long term reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsian View Post
I suggest a complete overhaul i.e. crank resetting, new cylinder kit and head valve re - setting at a proper lathe. If a proper mechanic handles the overhaul job, I'm certain it will be as good as new. Dont opt for reboring as no lathe guy will set perfect clearance. Do change the timing chain.
Thanks Gypsian, If there is a problem with the said parts, then i'll get it replaced at Hero Service center. Already engine work was carried out with a local mechanic who further ruined the performance
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Old 29th July 2022, 12:28   #10
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by efuture View Post
Thanks TorqMaster, I think it will be expensive than getting new engine, since a good vehicle will cost atleast 50k here in Chennai. Used bikes are expensive in Tamilnadu compared to other places in India

Hi saitvsk23, Thank you for your time and effort. I really appreciate your support here. Its clear now all the problem can be sorted if the engine is stripped and cleaned properly. Also I'll try to replace all the consumables, rubbers and gaskets to ensure long term reliability

Thanks Gypsian, If there is a problem with the said parts, then i'll get it replaced at Hero Service center. Already engine work was carried out with a local mechanic who further ruined the performance
Hi! There,
Greetings to all you fine folks.

It's a active community on this Team-BHP platform.
Which is super interesting.
I mean they have invested in new servers and software upgrades to give us a better user experience.
It's a phenomenal leap forward that this platform has undertaken.
On the Subject:
1. Look at the learning experience and lots of sad drive back home memories ( parts not available )as you go about with restoration project from your home itself.
You will immensely enjoy getting to know so much about this marvel bike of yours. By making mistakes you will learn a lot of good and become wiser.
2. Should you hand over your Bike to the Authorised service center, please do the following. a. Speak to the service manager, get his opinion, b.Chief mechanic ( the one with too much attitude ) get his opinion and c. last go to the spares dept, speak to the senior staff available ask him/her about the availability of spares for your Model #. Now you will have a better picture of what you are going to commit, also get an estimate quote from the Service Manager.
3. Team-BHP has a database of recommended Hero Honda Mechanics in your City. Do some background checks. Get a list of spares , fetch them from the Spares Dept. keep bills. And hand over to the Mechanic to complete the Job. Engine done, next Electrical ECU, harness, Instrument cluster done, suspension done, wheels. Hand over spares to the mechanic only for specific work in progress, the rest @ home keep in marked boxes which you can get from the Spares Dep. Tell them it's for storage.

Decal stickers for your bike are also available.
Plus authorised SC have a good Paint shop.

Hope this helps you.

Kind regards to all

Last edited by joednazareth : 29th July 2022 at 12:43. Reason: Adding text
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Old 29th July 2022, 14:57   #11
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Pudupet in Chennai is a place where you can get karizma engines but you need reliable people to find the best for you.

However, there used to be a Karizma expert called PSR on the XBHP forum. Not sure if he is in TeamBHP. Try talking to him. I think he is also from Chennai only.
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Old 31st July 2022, 11:09   #12
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

The main questions are:

1) how much can you spend?
2) how much time do you have on your hands?
3) are you going to use it for at least 3-4 years if you are able to restore it.

IMHO, I would sell it off and get a fazer or a gixxer which come in 250cc variants and are relatively fuss free. You might have sentimental value, but weigh it against the time, money and effort you can afford to put in.

I’ve been through similar, I sold off my 2008 karizma which was in a decent running condition. I had lots of sentimental value on it, but once covid struck, the bike was just lying idle. So, found a good buyer ( who would take care of the bike properly) and sold it.
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Old 31st July 2022, 22:09   #13
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

If you're having second thoughts about it then sell it and get something more practical and user friendly. However, there are quite a number of options under that price bracket of yours. Get an FZ25 if you want something that is durable, refined and offers superb low to mid range performance. It will be a proper upgrade in terms of performance and engine displacement as well, inspite of delivering ZMR like power figures on paper.
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Old 31st July 2022, 22:42   #14
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Most precious investment is time, if you have then restore else get a new like Suzuki V-Strom/Honda CB350/Royal Enfield Himalayan/Yamaha FZ25 or Hero Xpulse 200T.
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Old 1st August 2022, 09:19   #15
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Default re: Hero Karizma ZMR | Restore or replace?

Quote:
Originally Posted by efuture View Post
I am thinking of the following options,
  1. Completely restore the bike with all new parts in hero service center without worrying about the bills and keep the bike for the coming years till the FC expires
  2. Take it to a local mechanic and arrest holes here and there and hope it will run for next few years
  3. Sell it for few thousands and buy a 125CC commuter with 100kmpl mileage for 1Lakhs
Thanks in Advance!
1. Would make sense if you have the time and money to invest on the bike. Since the bike is not in production you will hear the statement "parts not available Sir" very often. There is no telling how long it will take for the service center to fix the bike, and even if they do, you will know their workmanship once you start riding again. So there are uncertainties here as well.

2. Do you really want to ride around on a bike which has the potential to breakdown every now and then. It's a risk factor. I don't think option 2 is worth it. There is nothing worse than creating a situation where your bike can get into an accident.

3. Option 3 is worth doing if you intend to use your next bike a whole lot. Smaller CC bikes are less fun to ride but are extremely frugal. Even the service cost is very less. New bike will definitely last longer and you don't have to worry about breakdowns. This makes more sense to me if you don't have sentimental attachment to the bike.
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