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Old 3rd January 2023, 11:07   #46
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Back in Business

Day 24 Update (December 31st)
I received a call from the Service Advisor in the evening. He was happy to share that the motorcycle was finally ready to be picked up! Since I had other commitments, I could only pick it up on Monday (2nd January).

Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250-20230102_123544.jpg

Taking delivery of the motorcycle
The SVC team was quite happy to hand over the motorcycle to me. Below is a list of parts that were changed as part of the warranty claim.

Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250-20230102_123308.jpg

There was another Gixxer SF250 in the SVC, which had come in for service. That bike had run 16.x K kilometers. The team connected Suzuki's (in?)famous vibration test tool to the motorcycle, to show me how it works. I was expecting a fancy device which was connected to the ECU and which shows the readings on a mobile app. Instead, all I got was two metal bars, bolted on to the motorcycle. The motorcycle is then revved in neutral, thereby transferring the vibrations to the metal bars. It all comes down to resonance. If the vibrations are excessive, the two metal bars will collide, thereby producing a sound.

Basically, this is a Japanese chai cup vibration test

Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250-20230102_122748.jpg

For all the Suzuki fanboyzzz who believe that the vibration issue is limited to barely any 250 motorcycles, this particular 16.x K kms run motorcycle had terrible vibrations in the handlebar, footpegs and seats. As with almost all other Suzuki 250 owners, he too has gotten used to the vibes and hasnt complained about it.

Initial Impressions
I didnt get the opportunity to ride my bike for an extended duration. What I did notice was that
- the bike is so much smoother than when I dropped it off in early December.
- there are minor vibes from the seat, from 7K RPM onwards, all the way to 9K RPM.
- there are faint vibes from the footpegs at around that range, as well. It is a fraction of what it used to be.

Let me put in a few hundred kilometers to see how the engine has settled in. I have some exciting riding plans for this weekend and will need to drop the bike off for its service, in the coming week.

Thanks to the folks at the Suzuki showroom and from the non service division, who helped to get the required approvals and finish the work in 24 days. Without their support, it would have taken at least 1.5x longer, if not more. Probably more.

Meanwhile, I am yet to get a reply from Suzuki India, to any of my emails So much for their customer support!

Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250-20230102_125543.jpg
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Old 3rd January 2023, 12:41   #47
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Re: Back in Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
I was expecting a fancy device which was connected to the ECU and which shows the readings on a mobile app. Instead, all I got was two metal bars, bolted on to the motorcycle.
For that piece of junk, Suzuki SVC made you run pillar to post in the beginning of this drama?

Any college lathe shop can manage to build a better tool. Looks like a crude tuning fork. How was it calibrated?

The handwritten list of parts changed looks like a doctor's prescription. What was finally changed other than the balancer shaft?

Last edited by no_fear : 3rd January 2023 at 13:10.
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Old 3rd January 2023, 13:03   #48
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Re: Back in Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post

Taking delivery of the motorcycle
The SVC team was quite happy to hand over the motorcycle to me. Below is a list of parts that were changed as part of the warranty claim.


There was another Gixxer SF250 in the SVC, which had come in for service. That bike had run 16.x K kilometers. The team connected Suzuki's (in?)famous vibration test tool to the motorcycle, to show me how it works. I was expecting a fancy device which was connected to the ECU and which shows the readings on a mobile app. Instead, all I got was two metal bars, bolted on to the motorcycle. The motorcycle is then revved in neutral, thereby transferring the vibrations to the metal bars. It all comes down to resonance. If the vibrations are excessive, the two metal bars will collide, thereby producing a sound.

Basically, this is a Japanese chai cup vibration test

Quote:
Originally Posted by no_fear View Post

Any college lathe shop can manage to build a better tool.

The handwritten list of parts changed looks like a doctor's prescription. What was finally changed other than the balancer shaft?
Even I am interested to know what was exactly changed.

Also going by first principles the "tool" is just a cantilevered beam in forced oscillations. Its frequency response will be discrete depending on the harmonics of the system and hence will not be able to fully characterize the vibrations in the system.

If the mass and the dimensions of the tool is known it will be easy to figure out the frequency response curve for the same.
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Old 5th January 2023, 18:42   #49
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Re: Back in Business

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
Day 24 Update (December 31st)
I received a call from the Service Advisor in the evening. He was happy to share that the motorcycle was finally ready to be picked up! Since I had other commitments, I could only pick it up on Monday (2nd January).

Let me put in a few hundred kilometers to see how the engine has settled in. I have some exciting riding plans for this weekend and will need to drop the bike off for its service, in the coming week.

Thanks to the folks at the Suzuki showroom and from the non service division, who helped to get the required approvals and finish the work in 24 days. Without their support, it would have taken at least 1.5x longer, if not more. Probably more.

Meanwhile, I am yet to get a reply from Suzuki India, to any of my emails So much for their customer support!


Congratulations, Neil!
Been waiting for some updates on this!

Amazing to hear that it still got completed in 24 days! I was expecting something longer, TBH!

Hope to hear from you in another 1000kms, on the changes in the updates!

On the side note, is it possible for the rest of the Gixxer folks who are facing ordeal to get it fixed by their respective SVCs ?
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Old 5th January 2023, 19:20   #50
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Re: Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250

Glad to see the mighty 250 back on its feet. The way service centers handle problems in india is disheartening, when there is really an issue they will just rub it off as "Its normal sir" then make the customer leave the SV even more confused. If only they actually listened to your problem with proper ears then this balancer shaft issue would have been solved in no time. But good to see it finally resolved. Safe motoring.
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Old 10th January 2023, 12:05   #51
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Shifting Left !

This past weekend, I covered ~ 600 kilometers on the Suzuki Gixxer SF 250, which included riding to Coimbatore, completing the Level 1 and 2 program of RACR at the Kari Motor Speedway and returning to Cochin. There, I met a gentleman from Shillong, who has a Gixxer SF 250 which is just over a year old and has covered 6,900 kilometers, in total. Guess what? His motorcycle has the exact same symptoms, that mine had (pre parts change)! For all the Suzuki fanboyzzzz who believe Suzuki's preposterous claim that the issue is limited to 199 motorcycles which were only manufactured between certain months, please open your eyes to reality!

Anyways, the weekend's riding gave me the opportunity to test the engine in a wide variety of conditions. Below are my findings on the vibrations, post the parts replacement by Suzuki (in line with their limited pan India recall)

- For reference, in 6th gear, the motorcycle does 75 kmph at 5,000 RPM, 90 kmph at 6,000 RPM and 105 kmph at 7,000 RPM. Also, do note that these figures are 10% higher than the GPS numbers, as reported earlier on my ownership thread.
- While riding to Coimbatore, I was cruising at a shade below 6,000 RPM (i.e 90 kmph), since I was in no rush. From 6,000 RPM onwards, there was a slight buzz from the footpegs and a milder buzz from the handlebar. TBHPian krishnaprasadgg did later point out that the reduced vibes from the handlebar are probably on account of the after market grips, which I had installed.
- At the track, once our group started doing faster sessions, I did notice the vibrations while going higher up in the rev range.
- On the return to Cochin, I decided to explore where and when the vibrations were appearing
a. At 6,000 RPM, the vibrations start at the footpegs and the handlebar. None in the seat.
b. At 7,000 RPM, the vibrations increase in the footpegs and the handlebar. None in the seat.
c. The same was observed for every 1,000 RPM increase. The vibrations linearly go up, as the revs go up.
- I settled into a steady indicated 90 kmph to 105 kmph speed (i.e. 6,000 to 7,000 RPM range) for the initial 45 minutes of riding.
- This is where things got interesting. The vibrations began to shift left. What exactly do I mean by that?
a. The vibrations that were there at 6,000 RPM, now began to appear at 5,000 RPM.
b. The vibrations that were there at 7,000 RPM, now began to appear at 6,000 RPM.
c. The same was observed for every 1,000 RPM increase. The vibrations linearly shifted left, as the revs went up.
d. Also, now I had vibrations from the seat at 6,500 RPM, which wasnt there in the first 45 minutes of highway cruising.
- I settled into a steady indicated 75 kmph to 90 kmph speed (i.e. 5,000 to 6,000 RPM range) for the remainder of my riding.

I have shared these observations, in detail, with the Suzuki superbike showroom manager and also requested for a face to face meeting with the company's Area Service Manager. Hopefully, the team can facilitate the meeting, sometime this week.

Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250-20230106_164705.jpg

All things considered, the vibrations are less than what they were before the parts were replaced in December 2022. I am yet to get the official email that listed all the parts which were changed, under warranty. Let me follow up on that.

In summary, while the bike isnt as smooth as what it was, in the first 6,000 kilometers, it still is a lot smoother than every other 250 that I have sampled, since my issue cropped up.

Meanwhile, I plan to service the bike later this week. Let's see if fresh fully synthetic Ecstar engine oil will improve things.

Hopefully my discussion with the ASM can help their national R&D team to diagnose and fix this issue, once and for all, not just for me but for all other Suzuki 250 owners, as well.

Last edited by Axe77 : 10th January 2023 at 16:46. Reason: As requested.
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Old 15th January 2023, 12:25   #52
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Re: Shifting Left !

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
The vibrations that were there at 6,000 RPM, now began to appear at 5,000 RPM.
b. The vibrations that were there at 7,000 RPM, now began to appear at 6,000 RPM.
c. The same was observed for every 1,000 RPM increase. The vibrations linearly shifted left, as the revs went up.
d. Also, now I had vibrations from the seat at 6,500 RPM, which wasnt there in the first 45 minutes of highway cruising.
- I settled into a steady indicated 75 kmph to 90 kmph speed (i.e. 5,000 to 6,000 RPM range) for the remainder of my riding.
Man, this is disheartening. Vibrations at just 5000 rpm from a 250cc Jap bike!! When Gixxer 250 was launched, the reviews said that this is the cbr250 from Suzuki and is a good highway cruising bike.

How bad are the vibrations at 120+ speeds?
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Old 21st January 2023, 21:09   #53
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Update

The meeting with the team from Suzuki's service department has been postponed to the coming week, as the regional manager for service can also attend it. Hopefully they bring something to the table, rather than just treating this as a meeting to attend, for the sake of attending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RD150 View Post
Man, this is disheartening. Vibrations at just 5000 rpm from a 250cc Jap bike!! When Gixxer 250 was launched, the reviews said that this is the cbr250 from Suzuki and is a good highway cruising bike.

How bad are the vibrations at 120+ speeds?
RD150, unfortunately, the Suzuki engine takes a good 5,000 to 6,000 kilometers to reveal its vibey nature. Hence, I dont blame any reviewers for not pointing it out, as it was far too early in the lifecycle, for these hidden traits to come out.

In the last couple of weeks, I test rode the new KTM RC 390 (brand new bike, with less than 100 kilometers on the odometer), a seasoned Honda CBR250R that belongs to a fellow TBHPian and a badly abused media test ride bike of the TVS Apache RR 310 BTO with the two additional kits (TVS debuts 'Built To Order' platform with Apache RR 310). In terms of vibrations, I would put the bikes in the following order
Honda CBR250R < Suzuki Gixxer SF 250 (current state) < Suzuki Gixxer SF 250 (pre- warranty parts replacement) < stock TVS Apache RR 310 < brand new KTM RC 390 < abused TVS Apache RR 310.

Honestly, when I got onto my bike after testing the abused Apache RR 310 and the brand new KTM RC 390, I found the Suzuki to be super smooth!

The issue is that for the first 6,000 odd kilometers, the Suzuki Gixxer SF 250 was smooth everywhere in the rev-range. I bought the Suzuki for its smooth engine and the promise of a trouble free ownership experience. Sadly, it hasnt lived up to my basic expectations.

On the other hand, with some of its higher priced competitors, you know that you are going to get a buzzy engine from day 1 and make your peace with it before taking delivery.
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Old 23rd January 2023, 22:52   #54
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Re: Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250

What would be a sound advice for someone pondering over a V-STROM 250, considering the ongoing saga with Suzuki and this dreaded 250 mill Neil. Though I'm happy that your soap saga ended with a somewhat happy note, how dreary is this vibration conundrum for a potential bakra so that he can bite the bullet. Do feed me back.

Cheers!
VJ
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Old 25th January 2023, 22:51   #55
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Meeting With Suzuki Service Officials

Yesterday, I had a long meeting with 2 gentlemen from Suzuki's service division. One was the regional service head for Kerala and the other was the local service head for Cochin. Along with us, were the manager and the service advisor of the Suzuki superbike showroom in Kerala. Ever since the vibration issues crept up in my bike, on multiple occassions, I had requested for a call from the local service head, but that had never materialized, due to reasons best known to Suzuki officials.

I am summarizing my discussion below
- I shared all the information that I crowdsourced from fellow TBHPians, which is present on this thread.
- We discussed the outlier of the brand new, unregistered Gixxer 250 which had the same vibrations from day -1, as compared to the others that develop it from 6,000 kms onwards.
- I explained that the Suzuki vibration test 'tool' was a ridiculous device. As per the 2 gentlemen, it is not the only criterion based on which Suzuki will approve a warranty claim, in line with their limited "official" recall.
- Only 2 bikes in Kerala were part of the "official" recall.
- The regional service head for Kerala apologized for the fact that the local service head didnt call me to discuss this earlier.
- They were happy to note that the bike is smoother after the parts were replaced in the warranty claim.
- The showroom manager confirmed that they are seeing the same vibrations in multiple Suzuki Gixxer / SF 250 motorcycles, that come for service.
- The gentlemen were thankful for getting such detailed technical feedback from an owner, especially one who had crowdsourced a lot of information, which is not easy for them to do through the official Suzuki channels. They have promised to pass on the technical feedback from the discussion to their central team.
- The local service manager asked if they can check the engine's shims for excessive wear, as a potential cause for the vibrations. It doesnt seem to be a likely cause but there is no harm in checking.
- In summary, they suggested that the 250cc engine becoming vibey / ageing / losing its smoothness after the first 6,000 kms, seems to be an inherent characteristic of the engine and / or platform. It is probably best for us, as motorcycle owners, to accept that this is how it is. I accepted their point without arguing.

The most important question that I had for them was exactly what TBHPian VijayAnand1 also asked about - Will these vibrations haunt the VStrom 250?

As per the 2 gentlemen,
- The Suzuki VStrom 250 engine is around 80% similar to that of the Gixxer and Gixxer SF. I didnt press them on what the exact differences were.
- Suzuki has sold around 100 VStrom 250s in Kerala, thus far.
- Being a new-ish launch, there is special attention being given to the VStrom 250, from a service perspective, to ensure that any reported issues get flagged immediately.
- No owner has complained about the issue of excess vibrations.
- It was impossible to identify why the same vibration problems havent replicated themselves in the VStrom 250.

I guess that officially wraps up an unpleasant saga. In summary, it is what it is.

Despite multiple follow ups, I still havent got the details of the exact parts that were replaced on my motorcycle's engine. The service advisor has promised to send the details to me. Once I get the full list, I will share it on this thread.

Meanwhile, to other Suzuki Gixxer / SF 250 owners who are struggling with the issue of excess vibrations, please push the company to replace the parts, in line with their limited "official" recall. It is proven to reduce the problem, by a fair margin. The service advisors will do their best to pass the buck to the company officials, who in turn will need to be chased down. Suzuki's pathetic customer care team doesnt even reply to complaint emails. But, if you persevere, and use the available channels at your disposal, Suzuki will do the right thing and replace the parts under warranty.

Please use this thread as a tool in your discussion with the Suzuki showroom teams, and push for the parts replacement of the engine of your motorcycle.

I continue to maintain that Suzuki knows how widespread this issue is. The right, and expensive, thing that they should have done, was to offer a nationwide recall of all Gixxer and Gixxer SF 250 motorcycles, and replace the same parts on all the motorcycles, without question. That would have ensured that the bikes were smoother than before.

The only reason that the company did a limited "official" recall, was to save face. Sadly, it is their loyal customers who are paying the price for Suzuki's errant ways.

Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250-20230124_134520.jpg
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Old 30th January 2023, 10:46   #56
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Suzuki Gixxer SF 250 vs VStrom 250 vibrations

Below are the list of parts that were changed as part of the warranty claim.

Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250-whatsapp-image-20230127-12.58.34-pm.jpeg

Quote:
Originally Posted by VijayAnand1 View Post
What would be a sound advice for someone pondering over a V-STROM 250, considering the ongoing saga with Suzuki and this dreaded 250 mill Neil. Though I'm happy that your soap saga ended with a somewhat happy note, how dreary is this vibration conundrum for a potential bakra so that he can bite the bullet. Do feed me back.
A friend of mine who owns a Suzuki VStrom 250 (~ 3,000 kilometers covered) rode my bike for a couple of days. He is a sedate rider, as compared to me, and Im no street hooligan! His feedback was that there was no real difference in the vibrations between my Suzuki Gixxer SF 250 (post warranty and 8,300 kilometers covered) and his VStrom 250. He has ridden a couple of other VStrom 250s, as well, with much higher odometer readings, and not found any excess vibrations.

Though the sample set is one, this feedback leads me to further believe that
- The Gixxer / SF 250 motorcycles have some inherent engine design characteristic / trait, that causes them to lose their refinement. The most common tipping point, from crowdsourced data, seems to be around 6,000 kilometers. The solution is to get the warranty claim approved, thereby making the bike smoother, as in the case of my bike.
- Suzuki has corrected the inherent engine design characteristic / trait, and / or worked on mounting, resonance etc, prior to releasing the VStrom 250. My (un?)educated guess is that the vibration issues from the Gixxer / SF 250, will not find their way to the VStrom 250.

Last edited by neil.jericho : 30th January 2023 at 10:47.
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Old 30th January 2023, 11:35   #57
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Re: Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250

Neil, by what %age approx has the vibes reduced after Suzuki changed the above-mentioned parts under warranty? Do the current batch of Gixxer250 come with updated design of the components?
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Old 30th January 2023, 14:52   #58
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Re: Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Neil, by what %age approx has the vibes reduced after Suzuki changed the above-mentioned parts under warranty? Do the current batch of Gixxer250 come with updated design of the components?
sagarpadaki, I would say by over 50%. With the recently completed 3rd service, things are marginally smoother, as well. One can definitely live with this level of buzziness, as compared to the annoying levels, pre-warranty replacement.

Coming to your second question, I have seen a very low run 2022 Gixxer SF 250 with excess vibrations. This was confirmed by the team at the service center. Hence, my belief, is that Suzuki has left the Gixxer 250 and Gixxer SF 250 untouched, off the factory line. It is only the VStrom 250 that has been "fixed".
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Old 30th January 2023, 15:47   #59
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Re: Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
This was confirmed by the team at the service center. Hence, my belief, is that Suzuki has left the Gixxer 250 and Gixxer SF 250 untouched, off the factory line. It is only the VStrom 250 that has been "fixed".
This is really sad! Sharing the same engine but not fixing the issues between the platform is sad
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Old 30th January 2023, 16:57   #60
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Re: Vibration issues with Suzuki Gixxer SF 250

The VSTROM 250 has more hard wearing parts which are more expensive. The metullurgy is different, I was told
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This is really sad! Sharing the same engine but not fixing the issues between the platform is sad
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