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Old 8th October 2024, 23:06   #16
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

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Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
The problem is that Ola Electric does not have decades of experience in making two or four wheelers, unlike traditional automobile companies. While Ola has probably hired people from traditional 2 wheeler companies, that will not result in complete transfer of manufacturing know-how.
The more so profound problem here I think is not just the experience but the ability and intent to come out and say that we have a problem and we're gonna do something about it instead of just going all out disrespectful online. Bhavish has always been arrogant about the claims and marketing from the beginning and it was about time they start facing the heat of it.

I want Ola to be a segment benchmark but up until now they have only been in a whirl wind of controversies and nothing except that.
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Old 9th October 2024, 08:18   #17
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

A year ago, when I decided to pick up the River Indie, many were aghast that I was planning to buy a product no one else had bought as yet.

I took the risk because the first batch of River Indie was well-engineered and manufactured. However, there were many things that could have been done better. The founders and their entire team met prospective owners, gave extensive test rides, and, more importantly, took notes of areas for improvement.

The approach cemented my trust in River as a company, Indie as a product, and, more crucially, the people behind the product—I put down my money and ended up being their third customer.

In the year that passed, the Indie didn't give up on me once—not once! And it doesn't move into limp mode until below 10% SoC.

Yes, I did have the belt snap a little over 10,000 km. After a thorough go-over, they had the vehicle ready for me to use in two days. Full credit where it is due: they replaced the belts, the pulleys, and the belt cover on their own accord. Significantly enough, they reached out to every customer who'd crossed the threshold (very few) to invite them to get their belt condition reviewed or to replace them.

Many have asked me why I didn't buy the Ather or the Ola and why I decided to invest in a brand that no one had heard about. I believe that ride quality, reliability, and brand trustworthiness are crucial to me, rather than the number of colors the bike comes in, the size of the touchscreen, or the sheer volume of features made to look like value for money.

Give me a well-designed, engineered, and sensible product.

Now, where did Ola go wrong?

Ola's misfortune is that they ran after VC money much before they had a viable product that was thoroughly ironed out of any potential failures. If I remember correctly, the design and engineering of the S1 were by a Dutch company, and Ola either bought out the rights to the product or the company itself. I attribute much of Ola's lack of perception to a gentleman in Tokyo, Japan. The desire to scale up a business model without deep insight is a crucial recipe for disaster.

Looks like some VCs learned nothing from the WeWork fiasco.

Ola was, is, and will remain incapable of resolving customer complaints because it would rather spend the money on marketing than capacity building.

One of our fellow members headed over a dozen Chinese EV brands until recently in Nepal. He shared pictures and his driving experiences and described holding 16-hour discussions with his Chinese counterparts, who did not take no for an answer. He was in awe of the sheer quality of the products hitting the road. And so was I.

Without focusing on quality, no company can get anywhere.

Unfortunately, Ola never focused on this lesson. I fail to identify a single redemptive quality in the company, its management, or the product.

The best we can do is stay as far away from the company as possible.
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Old 9th October 2024, 10:05   #18
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

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Originally Posted by darkchild82 View Post

Eventually the better engineered EV bikes from Ather, TVS, and Bajaj will catch up on sales when consumers realize they are built better and are comparatively hassle-free, despite the higher price tag.
Bajaj Chetak which was launched a few years back, has gained market share and reached 2nd position in retail sales in the month of Sept'24. Both Bajaj and TVS has a much better product with reliability of service network.

Brand salience, product trust, and after-sales service networks are key factors which is driving sales of competition as compared to Ola.

Ola has more sales presence than service network. Also ola service technicians are not well equipped to sort the issues faced by customers (I myself visited Ola service center few weeks back).
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Old 9th October 2024, 10:14   #19
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

I am working in an Automobile Company from the past 14 years and I see the basic problem is much deeper than it seems.

We are the country where every one is becoming a Software Engineer and is talking about AI, IOT etc.

The basic thing which country is lagging is now Good Mechanical Engineering, Metallurgical Engineering etc. Now a days, people are not interested in these core branches any more because they are considered as Raw, Blue Collar, whereas young generation prefers sophisticated work environment or work from home on the laptop throughout the day.

Here the real problem starts, since majority of these companies like OLA etc are basically Application Software (Cab Aggregator) related companies who do not have any know how of core Mechanical Engineering, the results is scooters or cars (in future) breaking into parts and many more.

The software era of AI is focussed on coding where as the actual Technology of product manufacturing has become secondary. The problem is only going to increase in the coming years because of dearth of good Mechanical Engineers.
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Old 9th October 2024, 10:16   #20
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

Our own wanna be Elon will probably ask CCPA officials to come and work on his service centers instead of asking for explanations. I mean these guys are so starved for employees that they are willing to offer a comedian a service center job. It's not like we are the most populous country or something, right?

Coming to Ola itself, the word on the street is very very bad even in third tier towns. You'd be hard pressed to find an existing owner who isn't fed up with the reliability issues and service center apathy.It's going to be an uphill task for ola to recover the lost image. IMHO, they can start by firing the CEO.

Last edited by darkfantasy : 9th October 2024 at 10:18. Reason: Corrected sentence format.
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Old 9th October 2024, 13:34   #21
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

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Originally Posted by Apex1815 View Post
I am working in an Automobile Company from the past 14 years and I see the basic problem is much deeper than it seems.

We are the country where every one is becoming a Software Engineer and is talking about AI, IOT etc.

Here the real problem starts, since majority of these companies like OLA etc are basically Application Software (Cab Aggregator) related companies who do not have any know how of core Mechanical Engineering, the results is scooters or cars (in future) breaking into parts and many more.
I beg to differ on this one a bit. Being a software engineer myself I think its not about lack of good Mechanical or Core Engineers, but more about implementation of Software Development Methodologies in no Software Fields.

The biggest problem IMO is using Methodologies like Agile, in non tech fields. Agile basically talks about iterative feature development and the concept of MVP. While this works well for Software where today I give you one feature and in next few weeks another feature, I dont think this is working very well for other engineering fields like bridge construction and road construction and vehicle manufacturing. These domains require the core heavy lifting and other tasks as a prerequisite to everything else and hence they take up majority of your time. If we try to make these core tasks Agile is where the problems occur according to me.

These fields which can be life threatening for users should never be Agile unless the core of it is fundamentally strong and proven.
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Old 9th October 2024, 13:40   #22
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

This is a welcome move by CCPA, OLA needs seriously take a look and change their quality check and service systems and protocols.

i am riding OLA S1 Pro Gen 1 which is reaching around 19.5K Kms (in 2 yrs), will pen down my experience with them once i reach 20K Kms.

i have stepped out of golden rule "not to buy first generation product even from brands known for quality (like Toyota)",

What i have done is a big mistake, I have purchased a vehicle from a "new player" and that too a "gen 1 product".
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Old 9th October 2024, 14:02   #23
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

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Originally Posted by puneetakhouri View Post

The biggest problem IMO is using Methodologies like Agile, in non tech fields. Agile basically talks about iterative feature development and the concept of
Sorry but you have not understood the core problem.

Technology does not mean only Software field. This is the biggest misunderstood Term. The Technology word has been replaced by cool word "Tech" in the software world.

The cool word "Tech" exists in core Mechanical Engineering.

To give you simple examples, The Technology used to manufacture a Metal component may be by Forging (Again Hot/Cold), Machining, Welding, Metal Forming etc

For Metal cutting "Tech" may be Gas Cutting, Plasma Cutting, Laser Cutting, Water Jet cutting, Shearing, Machining etc.


So I am not talking about Software implementation in Manufacturing, the major issue is the lack of skilled engineers in core manufacturing or civil engineering etc.
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Old 9th October 2024, 15:58   #24
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

What Bhavish did on Sunday is not reflective of a good leader! A good leader takes feedback and tries their level best to improve. It is good that CCPA is looking into the service deficiencies of OLA.

Automobiles (2W or 4W) are an emotional purchase of an Indian buyer, hence post sales support is crucial for a brand's success in India. Manufacturers like Skoda can provide a detailed case study on this topic.

With this context set, lets see how things are panning out in the E2W market with the help of sales data

EV 2W sales trend for last 1 year

CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints-salestrende2w.png

YoY Sales comparison - Old players vs New players and by manufacturer

Name:  sales23vs24e2W.png
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Size:  28.9 KBName:  sales23vs24newold.png
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Now what can we infer out of the above data. I will go manufacturer by manufacturer in the order of 2024 sales

OLA
  1. OLA pumped sales in the run up to their IPO. IPO was announced in Jul-24.
  2. They grew at a rate of 76% YoY but my take is that this push was all for a successful IPO
  3. Post IPO sales have come crashing down as the complaints are piling up.
  4. Above data shows that the company just pumped product into the market and had QC issues. Additionally the customer service network was not sufficient to support the sales pump.
TVS
  1. They have been the second force in the EV scooter market for more than an year now.
  2. As they are legacy business, they are growing at an organic rate of 22.8% YoY
  3. They have a sorted legacy service network
Bajaj
  1. They were nowhere in the E2W market till last year. They have steadily ramped up. Today their sales are almost equivalent to TVS.
  2. Sep'24 was the first month when they overtook TVS in monthly sales
  3. As a legacy player, they are growing at a rate of 50% YoY
  4. They have a sorted legacy service network
Ather
  1. They were one of the first player to start selling E2Ws in India.
  2. They are backed by legacy player - Hero Motor corp so they might be getting the right inputs at the leadership level
  3. They are growing at a 59% YoY rate. Their growth rate has been much more organic as compared to OLA
  4. They have their product challenges as well but it is not as bad as OLA. Their service is decent but it is expensive.
Hero Motorcorp
  1. Another player which has a slow start to the E2W market, they were nowhere in the reckoning till last year
  2. Their 2024 numbers are up 513% YoY. This again shows that consumer is gravitating towards the product with legacy dealer and service network.
  3. They have a sorted legacy service network
Greaves Electric/Ampere
  1. The only top player in the market which has decreasing sales in this segment.
  2. Their sales are -39% YoY. This can be a testament to their product quality and service quality
Conclusion - It might be easy to manufacture E2W but it is a different game to sustain the sales. Sales sustenance requires years of grinding in the Indian market and knowing your customer. This requires level headed CEOs/Founders who have the vision and drive their team for execution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
The above is what Bajaj Auto chief alluded to in his now infamous interview where he mocked 2 wheeler startups like Ola.
You are bang on here. See my analysis above
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Old 9th October 2024, 17:11   #25
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartCat View Post
The problem is that Ola Electric does not have decades of experience in making two or four wheelers, unlike traditional automobile companies. While Ola has probably hired people from traditional 2 wheeler companies, that will not result in complete transfer of manufacturing know-how.
While this is a fact that Ola is not experienced in making vehicles as compared to established products, but I have been following them since Ola electric was announced and they have just tried to move fast and get the market share.

They didn't develop the scooter in-house, they bought a dutch scooter company and used their product in harsher environment of India, be it weather or road conditions.

R&D was rushed just so they can capture the market faster, which, even by hiring the best people in the country, was bound to cause problems.

As others have mentioned, Bhavish just wants to ride the nationalism wave and gain consumers, but at the end of the day, players investing in R&D more than marketing are going to win.

This over-promise under-deliver or fake it till you make it attitude of Ola's CEO might have worked for Elon, but I doubt if it will take Bhavish where it took Mr. Musk.
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Old 9th October 2024, 17:56   #26
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

Only difference between Elon Musk & Bhavish Agarwal is ...

Elon Musk started talking crap after making truly mind boggling cars and rockets

Bhavish started making crap to begin with and followed up talking crap about his crappy products.

There is a small difference you know!

Last edited by svsantosh : 9th October 2024 at 17:59.
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Old 9th October 2024, 20:01   #27
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

A video by Sucheta Dalal on the issues plaguing OLA scooters, governance issues and customer complaints.

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Old 9th October 2024, 23:14   #28
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

More trouble for Ola as MHI seeks comments from ARAI on Ola Electric’s consumer issues.

The Ministry of Heavy Industries has stepped in, as Ola Electric’s models are eligible for demand subsidy under the PM E-Drive scheme.

Quote:
The ministry has stepped in, as Ola Electric is a beneficiary of the PM E-Drive scheme, which provides demand subsidies on the purchase of electric two-wheelers. ARAI is the testing agency for the FAME and PM E-Drive scheme, and it issues the eligibility certificates under the scheme.
The Ministry has sent a letter to ARAI, seeking comments at an early date. Ola Electric’s two electric scooters – S1 Pro, S1 Air, and S1 X are eligible for demand subsidies under the government scheme.

Quote:
According to the National Consumer Helpline portal, of the nearly 10,000 complaints received, the most common issues raised by consumers have been about service and repair delays, totalling 3,664.

There are approximately 1,899 complaints about delays in new vehicle deliveries, as well as 1,459 complaints about promised services that were not delivered.

Additionally, 761 customers reported manufacturing flaws in their vehicles, and 672 were dissatisfied with the company's response after filing complaints with the consumer helpline, according to the data.

Link:
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Old 10th October 2024, 09:03   #29
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

The whole thing smacks of tooth less laws which are meant for consumer rights. Nothing can happen in India.
A company can earn crores and multi crores by selling the vehicles but when one customer does because of factory defect instead of making the company pay our hopeless system doesn’t care one bit and allows the company to operate. This is a systemic problem.
That is why we suck in manufacturing exports. We are no good.
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Old 10th October 2024, 10:50   #30
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Re: CCPA issues showcause notice to OLA electric over consumer complaints

Dont bite more than what you can chew!

No other words can describe OLA's present state. They simply went for trendy marketing to crunch numbers and in no time OLA became super popular. Behind the scenes are 1000's of disgruntled customers.

Ather is a good example how they have maintained quality, just that they make less numbers and are focused more on customer satisfaction.

Bhavish's recent spat is nothing but shameful, given they are also a listed company!

Last edited by funkykar : 10th October 2024 at 10:52.
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