[nasirkaka]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

This is right and is also called attack position when going offroad. Standing straight up like a meerkat locks your elbow straight giving one no leverage over the handlebar and therefore zero control over the bike. One only stands to give the butt and hamstrings some freedom. The upper torso is hardly ever fatigued.

I feel there is a fine difference between standing and riding for enduro/technical off-road terrain Vs standing and riding on the road / flat trails, etc during general ride or long distance adventure touring.

Going by the books, or dirt schools will profess "attack position", with bum pulled back, upper body angled, head over handlebar and straight, elbows open etc. As the name suggests, this makes sense when one is riding fast over technical sections. This will given much better control on the bike, shift weights better, load the front end, slide the rear, tackle jumps etc.

But holding this attack position for longer demands core strength, strong legs, back and neck. Also, most of us middle aged riders are not brought up on those lines nor have strength to maintain the attack position for long. And that is where a more relaxed position helps when one wants to stand and ride to relive the sitting fatigue, get some blood circulation going, ride over bad broken patches or simple flat trails. Or one could simply stand and ride for a while to admire the view from a height.

The latter may not be ideal position by the books, but it works for a lot of people and with good control over the bike too. A compromise, but as long as it work for an individual, all is well.

[praful]

I was at EICMA this year, this bike looks even better in person than the photos and it was a crowd magnet.

Quality on the display bike looked top-notch. But I'm surprised for this new range BMW is choosing to start with an ADV variant and not a naked R type like the G310 R.

If this happens its great news for the ADV market and depending on pricing this thing has the potential to eat into a lot of the market in this range from the likes of the Himalayan, Honda 300 Rally, etc.

When

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by Boringrider

RE can probably upgrade that engine to a proper 750 or 800 with higher output, so that the power to weight ratio is at least justifiable. Maybe they are already working on it, seeing the dual front discs on some of their spy shots.

I was expecting RE to launch a bike with a bigger Sherpa engine either a big single or twin cylinder. This platform looks like the one that will power all their bikes in the future in various displacements.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The production version may have 19" front and 17" rear cast aluminium wheels -

I hope they give the option of spoked wheels too.

There is speculation that it will slot in between the 310 GS and the 850/900 GS. But BMW Motorrad is aggressively marketing the 310 GS last few days on social media. Looks to be a stock clearance exercise before they replace it with the 450.

[FlankerFury]

India launch likely in mid-2025, says Bikewale.

https://www.bikewale.com/news/bmw-f-...y-in-mid-2025/
__

This engine develops 48bhp and BMW says that because of a ‘never-before-used’ ignition offset, is happy to rev while being quite characterful.

This is interesting, I remember some youtubers saying it has a 125° crank rather than the more popular 270° crank.
Turns out, it wasn't a typo, it really uses "never-before-used" offset.

[amyntor]

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

Turns out, it wasn't a typo, it really uses "never-before-used" offset.

I hope BMW won't use this as an excuse to price it to the moon

[ExOblivione]

Originally Posted by amyntor

I hope BMW won't use this as an excuse to price it to the moon

Ah, your mistake is thinking that BMW needs an "excuse" to price its products to the moon!

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

There is speculation that it will slot in between the 310 GS and the 850/900 GS. But BMW Motorrad is aggressively marketing the 310 GS last few days on social media. Looks to be a stock clearance exercise before they replace it with the 450.

Most manufacturers engage in agressive stock clearance before the next year's stock comes in, since new buyers will want the latest MY year motorcycle and they will have to discount deeply the previous year's stock once that happens.

I would be very, very shocked if BMW went the replacement route, since this implies that they will either (a) price it at roughly the same price point as 310GS or (b) make this as their entry point and abandon the 310GS price point entirely.

I don't see them giving a bike with twin cylinder and higher CC (450cc) and a better overall kit (electronics, suspension, brakes, looks etc.) at anything close to the 310GS price. I expect it to be at least at (or over) the price of Honda's NX500, import non-withstanding, simply for the desirability of the badge. The 310s were already overpriced (compared to TVS's much better equipped equivalents) solely because of the badge.

I also don't see any reason for them to get rid of the 310GS for those who want a BMW, and have a more limited budget. Why give up their sales? And leave a huge chasm between 310cc singles and 800cc+ twins (3 lakh and 13 lakh ex-showroom), for those that want a bit higher kit but not pay over 13 lakh for that?

[Axe77]

I think the 310 GS and 450 GS can easily co-exist. This will be pushed more as a small “step up” from the 310 segment so I doubt it will replace it.

The current GS 310 is almost touching 3.8 - 4L on road if I’m not mistaken. The all new 390A will definitely be well over that and I suspect the GS 450 will price itself a bit over the 390A as well (claiming parallel twin superiority if nothing else).

I’d be surprised if they price the 450GS below 5.00L ex-showroom to be honest (would be delighted to be proven wrong) and that’s certainly a pretty penny for the segment. But still, I’m looking forward to how the new 390A as well as this 450 GS will stretch and expand this segment on performance etc.

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by ExOblivione

I also don't see any reason for them to get rid of the 310GS for those who want a BMW, and have a more limited budget. Why give up their sales? And leave a huge chasm between 310cc singles and 800cc+ twins (3 lakh and 13 lakh ex-showroom), for those that want a bit higher kit but not pay over 13 lakh for that?

The GS310 is not a huge seller for BMW India. It makes no sense for them to keep two A2 license bikes in the international market. The way they are aggressively marketing the 450 is a sign of future plans for them. They'll replace the current 310 single with the new 450 platform to fight the 400 class that's hot right now. The CFMoto 450, Himalayan 450, NX500 & Triumph 400 are selling really good worldwide. And you have the new KTM ADV 390R (if the KTM European division don't go under), Tuareg 457, KLE500 as well.

The 310s are very unlike a typical BMW and the new 450 can slot in under the 900 platform and keep the brand values intact. They can price it pretty competitively in Europe and other key markets because it's built in Asia like how Aprilia did with the 457. Indian numbers don't mean much to them. They are more or less using India as a manufacturing hub to keep the prices in their relevant markets competitive. New TVS 300 motor is a clear indication that the current 310 motor might be phased out here as well.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by b16h22

The GS310 is not a huge seller for BMW India. It makes no sense for them to keep two A2 license bikes in the international market.

Originally Posted by b16h22

New TVS 300 motor is a clear indication that the current 310 motor might be phased out here as well.

Hit the nail on the head IMHO.

Calling the 310s as 'not a huge seller' is being rather polite IMHO because they have flopped rather badly for BMW internationally. Figures from last year called out that over 24,000 units of the G 310 series were sold worldwide – 7,282 units in India and 19,099 units exported. While that sounds like a significant number initially- BMW Motorrad also reported selling 23000 units with the 1000cc inline4 motor - machines that carry some 5x-10x the price and margins, depending on the market. The big daddy GS sold in multiples of the 310s!

India just constitutes 5% of the market for BMW Motorrad and they are unlikely to make any strategy with our market in mind. The best international strategy for the brand would be to have the 450s replace the 310s and get reviews and recognition worth the brand name instead. This could mean they will become pricey for the Indian market though!

And also could mean the end of the 310s. TVS investing heavily into developing a rival 300cc motor could be the best indication that the 310 is nearing the end of its life.

Do we have any official word that the 450s are made in India (and not China)?

[ExOblivione]

Originally Posted by b16h22

The GS310 is not a huge seller for BMW India. It makes no sense for them to keep two A2 license bikes in the international market. The way they are aggressively marketing the 450 is a sign of future plans for them. They'll replace the current 310 single with the new 450 platform to fight the 400 class that's hot right now. The CFMoto 450, Himalayan 450, NX500 & Triumph 400 are selling really good worldwide. And you have the new KTM ADV 390R (if the KTM European division don't go under), Tuareg 457, KLE500 as well.

I am not convinced that BMW will (or can) position the 450GS to take on the 400CC class you have mentioned.

Looking at the US prices (the first time I have bothered, all base prices):

Singles
BMW 310GS - 5,695
Triumph 400X - 5,795
Himalayan 450 - 5,799
KTM 390 ADV - 7,599 (haha!)

Twins
CF Moto 450MT - 6,499
NX500 - 7,399

Twin (non-ADV)
Aprillia 457 - 6,899 (made in India)

As can be seen, there are two very clearly demarcated price tiers, between the singles and the twins, with the singles clustering at basically the same price point (barring the KTM), and the twins, even the "cheap Chinese" brand which is aggressively trying to break into the market and not having a pedigree, being much more expensive.

Is BMW, with its much higher desirability factor, going to undercut the Honda, let alone a Chinese brand with no heritage/snob factor? The NX500 is made in Thailand, basically no different than if the 450GS is made in India (or China).

The Aprilia 457 you mentioned underscores my point. A non-ADV, made in India sportsbike, retails for USD 6.9k (4.1 lakh in India). Any Tuareg 457 that eventually comes out will be a step above in price, since the ADV versions always are (Honda CB500 is also 6,899). And while Aprilia has brand recognition, it's arguably not at the level of BMW the world over (mainly because of BMW cars).

It may very well be that BMW decides to discontinue the 310GS and abandon the 400cc single class market and position the 450GS as their lowest offering. There is no way that the 450GS can be priced at that level, even the Chinese aren't putting their 450 twin at that price point.

This makes no effective difference to anyone wanting to buy the 450GS, as the removal of 310GS will not mean the 450GS will be its "replacement", rather than an abandonment of the previous price tier.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

This could mean they will become pricey for the Indian market though!

The crux of the matter is the Indian pricing, since that's what impacts us directly. Pricing in other markets is of no more than an academic interest.

If the Indian made Aprilia 457 sportsbike is already retailing for 4.1 lakh, with the eventual Tuareg 457 virtually guaranteed to be closer to 4.5-5 lakh, a 450GS below 5 lakh starts seeming like a pipe dream. A discontinuation of 310GS will simply mean the abandonment of that price point, not a replacement in any true sense of the word.

[Axe77]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Do we have any official word that the 450s are made in India (and not China)?

I think it’ll be made in India and Thailand but there is no official word on this yet.

[FlankerFury]

Bikewale says it'll be built by TVS, and there'll be an RR450.

...the new 450cc, liquid-cooled, parallel twin that BMW showcased on its GS prototype in Milan. This 450cc engine will also be made by TVS. And much like the 310 platform, the street-naked aka R, and the adventure bike aka GS, will continue to belong exclusively to BMW. Similarly, TVS will launch an RR 450 model on this platform, which TVS will have exclusive rights to.

Here's what it says about the 310s,

The 310 platform will continue for the forseeable future. TVS will continue to sell its RR310 and RTR310 in 2025 and beyond. But, come April 2025, and BMW will end the production run for both its GS and R models based on the 310 platform. It will replace these bikes with new ones powered by the 450cc parallel twin.

Source:- https://www.bikewale.com/news/new-30...for-tvs-motor/

[b16h22]

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

Source:- https://www.bikewale.com/news/new-30...for-tvs-motor/

That makes no sense unless TVS made the new 300 solely for the ADV platform. It is going to be pretty confusing when they sell the 310 and 300 alongside and they are fairly different engines. I doubt TVS put in all that effort to only use the 300 in a single model. And as expected, BMW will pull the plug on the 310 from their side.