[sreejithsin]

Here is the timeline of events which happened:

1. During a ride, the fuel level displayed in the instrument console of my Himalayan 450 shows almost full tank, but the bike started to stall, while checking at a nearby petrol station found that the tank was almost empty.

2. After a full tank, the console started displaying the 'Fuel Level Sensor Failed' message, and the fuel indicator bars started blinking.

3. Took the bike to service (second free service also had to be done) at Company Service Center, Edappally, Kochi, Kerala and mentioned the problem. (12th November, 2024)

4. Service says the fuel sensor has to be replaced and it will be covered under warranty. But since stock is not available I have to return after a few days when the ordered part comes.

5. Took the bike to SC when I got the message that the part had come. Fuel level sensor is replaced under warranty and the motorcycle is given back to me. I noticed there itself that the fuel level is still showing almost full and the tank should only be half full based on my calculation. The advisor asks me to try running the bike and see.

6. Fuel level stays the same, so I tried to do a tank full where I could fill in almost 13L of fuel. So the fuel level displayed was wrong. Soon after the tank was full, the console started showing 'Fuel level sensor failed' message again.

7. Took the bike again to SC (30th November) where the bike was kept for a few days to identify the root cause.

8. Service finally identifies the problem to be related with the instrument console, fixing another instrument console is showing correct fuel level without errors (i have not personally verified this).

9. Service advisor calls and informs me that warranty may be denied for the console since it has external damages ('scratches' in their terminology) and since I have stuck a screen protector.

10. Contacted RE customer support to get clarity regarding the issue. They send this back to the service center where they give the same reply (external damages and screen protector).

11. Case is escalated and customer support asks me to wait for problem resolution. Waited for more than a week. Finally they too confirm that warranty claim is rejected for the same reason.

Points to Note:

1. Even though RE says console has to be replaced to solve this problem, everything other than the fuel gauge on the console works perfectly without any issue.

2. The console got scratches while trying to do PPF over it, the PPF film had to be cut along the circular edge of the console, and the person who did it at the shop was not experienced. I got the PPF removed there itself since it had a tint and later bought a screen protector sold specifically for H450 from Amazon. This was done during June 2024 soon after getting the bike. The fuel level problem started during October 2024.

3. The scratches are referred to as 'external damages' by RE.

Questions:

1. Is RE right in denying warranty for the instrument console?
2. Is this actually a console issue, considering everything else on the console works. Did they troubleshoot correctly?
3. How can I take it forward / solve it?

Here is a video explaining the issue..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuNYL_0MKOM

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by sreejithsin

2. The console got scratches while trying to do PPF over it, the PPF film had to be cut along the circular edge of the console, and the person who did it at the shop was not experienced.

Watched the video and I think you should ask the Detailing Shop to cover for this if RE is refusing warranty because of this reason. From your video - it looks like blade marks all around. If so, that is extremely poor workmanship from the detailing center. Also do mention which center so that others don't end up with this situation!

RE could have gone ahead with a Goodwill (if not warranty) replacement here! Afterall their consoles are known to give occasional issues - even our Guerrilla 450 media bike had a fuel guage scare which i have called out in the review.

But with such obvious scratches left behind by the Detailing Center - i can see why they are trying to wash off their hands. The issue with the console could very well be unrelated to the damages- but that has given them a good reason to wash off their hands nevertheless.

[Snowcat]

Totally absurd, It's a digital display so that's definitely not from those scratches, seems like they took the easiest way out. Seems to be issue of data transfer from sensor, might be some input connection is broken or they are lying about changing the sensor.

Hope you escalate it to the higher management or hopefully TBHP does. Might be a good idea to contact your local RE clubs to pressurize them.

[Axe77]

Not sure if I’m missing some technical co-relation between the two issues. If there is none, I feel RE should stand behind the product and back up with warranty support rather than using these scratches as a free ‘get out of jail’ card.

Alternately, they should elaborate and clarify on how the scratches have caused the fuel gauge / related sensor to malfunction.

Agree with CD’s point too - please clarify which detailing center botched up this job so other members are forewarned of the quality of their work.

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by sreejithsin

Questions:

1. Is RE right in denying warranty for the instrument console?
2. Is this actually a console issue, considering everything else on the console works. Did they troubleshoot correctly?
3. How can I take it forward / solve it?

1. No. But legally, they can; so they will. Even if there weren't scratches they could simply claim that 'the screen protector caused the console to overheat and fail'- whether or not the issue can happen as such. Especially given that they've already seemingly wasted a warranty claim on you, and there probably are instructions/measures from RE to keep the claims to a minimum.

2. They clearly didn't troubleshoot correctly- they didn't identify root cause & verify proper functioning of the gauge, the first time as they should have. The error message is misleading, but they should've known better to only take it to mean 'the system has detected no change in fuel level input for a while' (which I guess is how the bike detects the issue). The second time, even going by their unverified claim, why can't it be the wiring? Hypothesis under quote:

I don't exactly know how the gauge functions on the bike, but surely there's and analog signal- picked up by the sensor- which is converted to a digital signal- either by the ECU or the console- for the gauge to display the level. Since we are going by their claim of 'it works on a different console' we can eliminate ECU for now, and only consider the 'console doing the analog to digital conversion'. If that's the case, the analog signal that enters the console from the sensor, has to be via a separate wire/pin (correct me if I'm wrong in assuming this; electronics isn't exactly my cup of tea). It is far more likely that there's repairable wiring issue- perhaps on the connector of the console, as a different console, they claim, fixed it- than couple of scratches ruining the entire console.

3. RE's 'customer support'- much like many other in the industry- is just an other "Business Solutions" company that RE has outsourced support to. All these guys realistically do is 'copy-paste generic responses & not let a ticket stay on the system for long' for a living. It is a lost cause with these guys. I'd suggest to begin with getting a second opinion from a reputed mechanic who also knows about electricals on a bike (or knows someone that specialises on that), identify & verify the root cause.

[masterChief007]

This is RE being RE, they have a major issue with their fuel sensor display in that instrument cluster even a year back I test rode for 250 km with the display for fuel not changing a bit and suddenly jumping down to half at the fat end of the ride.

How can surface level scratch destroy the instrument console is beyond my comprehension, if the stuff is so delicate then I wonder what is going on. Better to have a simple instrument cluster with basic stuff - I actually loved the himalayan 411 setup than this garbage. RE should have asked google to provide a phone instead of just the maps integration to be fitted at the instrument cluster

[sreejithsin]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Also do mention which center so that others don't end up with this situation!

This was done at Varnam sticker works, Kaloor, Kochi.

Originally Posted by Snowcat

Hope you escalate it to the higher management or hopefully TBHP does. Might be a good idea to contact your local RE clubs to pressurize them.

Will try this, thanks !

Originally Posted by Axe77

Alternately, they should elaborate and clarify on how the scratches have caused the fuel gauge / related sensor to malfunction.

This was my stand too on the issue. If it was my fault (even remotely related) then I do not have any problem paying for the same. The console is an expensive part and that may be the reason why they are reluctant. H450 is my third Royal Enfield motorcycle and I never had a warranty claim or dispute in the past. Also, barring this issue, I am quite happy with my purchase of the new Himalayan.

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

Especially given that they've already seemingly wasted a warranty claim on you, and there probably are instructions/measures from RE to keep the claims to a minimum.

Yes, they wasted a part replacement under warranty (fuel level sensor) which was not needed had they taken time to do proper troubleshooting. So, it is not in their best interests to do a second 'on warranty' replacement for a more expensive part.

Originally Posted by BullettuPaandi

I'd suggest to begin with getting a second opinion from a reputed mechanic who also knows about electricals on a bike (or knows someone that specialises on that), identify & verify the root cause.

Thanks for this suggestion. I was also considering visiting another service center just to find the real cause of the issue.

[Sensible_Speed]

These are no grounds to deny a warranty claim. Especially on a new motorcycle. You can approach the consumer court and plead unconscionability on RE's part in their reading of the terms and conditions.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Axe77

Not sure if I’m missing some technical co-relation between the two issues.

May not due to a co-relation, but just the fact that the product is seen to be tampered with!

Most brands will have some guideliness for warranty approval - which will get rejected when visible damages are there. That said - this should be covered under goodwill at least once escalated higher up.

And it looks like RE had no concerns with replacing the Fuel level sensor under warranty prior to the issue being identified with the instrumentation. So it's not that the service guys were defensive to deny warranty right from the start.

[sreejithsin]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

And it looks like RE had no concerns with replacing the Fuel level sensor under warranty prior to the issue being identified with the instrumentation. So it's not that the service guys were defensive to deny warranty right from the start.

But from customer's perspective, replacing the fuel level sensor which had nothing to do with the issue was their mistake, and it only helped in losing time and energy for me. It did not help me in any way.

And I suspect, this is the reason why the service center guys were reluctant to process warranty on another expesive part for the same problem. The following is part of the response which I got from RE customer support.

On a positive note, we would like to highlight that we have successfully replaced the fuel level sensor under warranty, fulfilling our obligations as outlined in our warranty agreement.

[Faf]

This is absurd as to how surface scratches can cause this malfunction. Companies these days are just trying to find any damn reason /loophole to deny the warranty. Just see how Ford India has been behaving in the case of instrument cluster MID display failures. Hundreds and hundreds of owners have had the same exact issue at a similar age of vehicle, which keeps increasing day by day, but Ford India is just trying to wash their hands off. Please escalate and, if required, file a case on the INGRAM portal.

[100Kmphormore]

I had a similar service center issue with my Himalayan 411, 2 instrument consoles changed due to damage by vibration. Another due to the lock set externals getting scratched and breaking due to a steering column bolt falling off due to vibration, post which the steering was getting stuck to right or left, and attempts to center it caused damage - in the middle of a 1000 km trip for a friends wedding. Inspite of the bolts being fixed, internal damage caused a breakdown where the bike wouldnt even start due to loose contact in the ceramics, in a relatively remote area, and after 3 hours of calling the RSA was told to "bring it tomorrow, today is sunday". Back home after a temp repair, warranty was denied because "scratches on the lock set" - inspite of proof of Ballari service center bill for the bolts that caused it - the culprit here is the Kwality Mobikes service center, Kadarenahalli, Bengaluru.
Why is cosmetic damage the reason to reject a claim when the fault is internal?

They also make away with fuel (upto a couple of liters sometimes), taking advantage of the infamous RE fuel gauge and say fuel gauge is not showing correctly, and make an ass out of themselves. Shameless folks, especially the management and that service head Srinivas. I strongly demanded a warranty claim and only then such incidents stopped.

This is standard practice by RE. I sold my bike within a month and a half of the incident and have sworn to never look at RE again, inspite of the wonderful 650 and the 450. Even the company operated brand store in BTM layout took nearly 2 months and after a lot of escalation to change the fuel pump and cam tensioner under warranty ( erratic fueling - tappet noises ). My Duke, set to complete 8 years the next April has never been through such issues in its lifetime, despite being a highly stressed unit and a lot of electronics (at that time).

[sreejithsin]

Sorry for my ignorance. How do I escalate this ? On conversation with customer support they once said the following, but I guess, this does not mean they have escalated the issue with upper management.

Therefore, we want to assure you that to address your concerns promptly, we have escalated the matter to our dedicated service team with the highest priority. The team is actively working to ensure that a comprehensive solution is provided to you as soon as possible.

[NomadSK]

IMO, this is complete hogwash. There have been enough threads on T-Bhp where the digital fuel sensor have failed for RE. Looks like they have a design issue either with heating coil or resistor, which sends the data to the instrument console. I don't know what RE uses.

Originally Posted by sreejithsin

Here is the timeline of events which happened:

2. After a full tank, the console started displaying the 'Fuel Level Sensor Failed' message, and the fuel indicator bars started blinking.

I would trust any day the engineer who have designed the system and if it says, fuel sensor failed, then I will go with it only.

4. Service says the fuel sensor has to be replaced and it will be covered under warranty. But since stock is not available I have to return after a few days when the ordered part comes.

This makes sense.

5. Took the bike to SC when I got the message that the part had come. Fuel level sensor is replaced under warranty and the motorcycle is given back to me. I noticed there itself that the fuel level is still showing almost full and the tank should only be half full based on my calculation. The advisor asks me to try running the bike and see.

Well, dig deep into this step. Did they actually replace the sensor, ask for the old sensor which was removed and replaced and also the box of the new sensor or the data from their computers, where it shows they replaced one.

8. Service finally identifies the problem to be related with the instrument console, fixing another instrument console is showing correct fuel level without errors (i have not personally verified this).

This is definitely not adding up. The instrument consoles would only display what sensor would give the input. Garbage in garbage out. Once a service center wanted to take me for a ride and told me, since I have a higher Bhp car, I need to replace the brake pads more frequently, I just gave him a smile. So take this with a truck load of salt.

9. Service advisor calls and informs me that warranty may be denied for the console since it has external damages ('scratches' in their terminology) and since I have stuck a screen protector.

Looks like they want to squeeze some money out of you.

My advice- Take it out to some reliable FNG and diagnose the situation in front of you. Meanwhile you can read this thread on similar issues.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...ownership.html (Royal Enfield Meteor 350 faulty fuel indicator | Happy ending & happy rides in 6 months of ownership)

Good luck !

[BullettuPaandi]

Originally Posted by NomadSK

I would trust any day the engineer who have designed the system and if it says, fuel sensor failed, then I will go with it only.

The awfully embarrassing untold truth is Engineers would fail abysmally, if they're given a Mechanic/repair job.

Even the most 'smart' error detection systems, are only as useful as tracer bullets- they never point directly to the exact issue. This is true for completely digital and widely developed fields like programming- reading error and warning codes a terminal throws at you, and deducing the root issue requires an entirely different 'debugging' skill. Hence it is only more true, when you combine digital, mechanical and electrical systems together- like a motorcycle.

The only way- at least that I can think of- the system detecting such issue, is by noticing no change in the fuel level input- its only input- for a long while. With just this info, jumping to say that 'The fuel level sensor has failed' is misleading at best. There can be a loose end in the wiring, the PCB component, heck even a bug in the code.

Personally, I'm not a fan of such 'smarts' on a motorcycle; an OBD error code is smart enough. Any more than that will only be misleading. But the mechanics should've known better than taking the message at face value, nonetheless.

Most experienced mechanics do know better; it is just that most dealerships can't/won't afford them.

Besides,

Originally Posted by sreejithsin

from customer's perspective, replacing the fuel level sensor which had nothing to do with the issue was their mistake