[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

- The digi speedos still face problems many dont even bother to complain as its fine once you switch off & then on.

The problem is sporadic and not as widespread as you might think. Switching it off and then back on isnt a major headache anyway. There was an issue with ZMA speedo sensor's too but instead of a recall HH chose it as another way to make even more money. 1300 Rs for the bloody sensor.... they kidding me or what!

Originally Posted by Technocrat

The center stand on initial lots hits road on leaning dont tell me you are not supposed to lean on a performance bike.

You said it yourself "Initial lot". Though its true that vibration at higher revs is a problem with Pulsar's. Although I dont have any idea abt P220.

Originally Posted by Technocrat

The list is long... I am not saying HH is better but take all other manufactures new launches they dont have these many faults tell what problems did Xtreme faced or the RTR or the CBZ(old), Apache, Heck even LML had defect free bikes like freedom.

Xtreme doesnt have the digital instrument cluster, a grouse which you have against new Pulsar's.
Vibration were a problem with old CBZ as well and they were even worse than Pulsar, sitting pillion at anything over 80 kph gave u buzzing A$$.
Havent ridden Apache RTR but the older one was buzzy vibratory thing at anything over 4000 rpm!
Freedom huh! End of the argument.

[sumitkalindi]

He he, Digi consoles, Only one company had the guts to bring it in Indian bikes, Even in a punny 125 cc bike. Another immediately took the idea, on a performance bike, all others??? "Kya jata hai? speed hi to dekhna hai, kantee mein dekho, digital se kya hoga?" ;-)

Maybe I am wandering OT. Sorry mods.

[Technocrat]

Ahh I can continue on this but I will just agree to disagree.

Happy riding

[extreme_torque]

Me tooo..... Ride Safe Bro ;-)

[burnt.]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Take Yamaha all they have is the single 125 cc engine(till recently when they launched a 150) which featured on their cruisers as well as city & sports bikes.

I don't understand where everybody gets the idea that Bajaj engines don't last. I drive a 2 year old Bajaj Avenger and a 3 and a half year old Yamaha enticer, which sports the 125cc engine that Yamaha uses in a lot of it's bikes ( I believe).

Well, the Yamaha doesn't even compare with the Bajaj in terms of engine, and I'm not talking about power. The Yamaha engine has lost a lot of its refinement and the power delivery is not smooth. This has been so for a long time now, despite numerous attempts by me to get it fixed. The Bajaj engine, though the engine sound seems to have changed slightly is still going srong ( It's just 2 years old afterall). But, regarding mileage, the Yamaha inly gets me around 45 kmpl in city driving, where as the avenger fetches me around 50 kmpl in 100 % city driving. Please note that this is on sedate driving. When I am in hurry both bikes fetch me around 40 kmpl but the avenger always seems to deliver the better FE despite being more powerful and displacing more.

Now regarding the gearbox, both machines don't have anything to write home about. Initially, soon after being serviced, the avenger has the smoothest gear shift. It changes with the slightest tap. But after a few kms, the shift becomes harder and a few times while shifting from first to second, you get the neutral. In the Yamaha, changing gears is quite a muscle building exercise. The foot pedal may be the reason. But the hardness in shift is pretty uniform, it never increases neither decreases. And you dont get any neutrals shifting from first to second.

Regarding the quality of all other components, the Yamaha rules. Despite being older the Yamaha hardly shows any signs of rust. The chrome plated parts look much better on the Yamaha, the avenger revealing small dots on close inspection. Also, the silencer on the avenger is showing signs of rust. Quite a few parts here and there are rusted on the avenger, but the Yamaha seems more rust resistant.

On the whole, I always prefer the Avenger to the Enticer. The engine is fantastic to drive. In my opinion, the Avenger is much better to drive than the pulsar if you drive sedately. (The gearing seems to be different). Besides you get to feel like god . The rear suspension on both bikes are not good. The Enticer seems to be better though.

OOps.. this has turned into an Enticer Avenger comparison.


Moral of the Story- Both company has its advantages and disadvantages. You can pick whichever suits you best. From my experience, the Yamaha is the far more reliable bike. (I've had to change the speedo cable twice, clutch cable once and the rear suspension spring is awaiting replacement n the Avenger. Nothing on the Yamaha so far).But, the Avenger is the more fun to drive bike, and the one I love to ride.


Mileage- Yamaha Enticer 25000 kms
Bajaj Avenger 14000 kms

[rider60]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Its truely amazing the way you never let an idea interrupt the flow of your typing, though making sense wouldn't have hurt. Ever wondered why all delivery bikes are Bajaj's CT100. They are abused more, than you can think off.

Dude that 250cc twister would be more than 2.5 lakh rupees. FYI P220 is 85 k + and 70 k+.

well i already have the answer to it their initial cost is low so are the spares and it works out for the delivery purposes i suppose, as the spares are cheaper too but what about the VFM factor in the long run? well the hh bikes can definitely take all this abuse and still do good in the long run if serviced in the intervals. well the spares of hh do last longer than the bajaj and in the calculation the bajaj and the hh spares will amount to the same cost but the ct100 will end up doing more trips to the service center than the hh bikes thats all!

well spending that 2.5 lac now dont you think would be worth the price for a properly designed from a better R&D, time tested bike, with higher refinement levels and performance, atleast it wouldnt have the reliabilty issuses faced by the 200 and 220 users! if one feels the bike is over priced why not wait till honda launches it in India or buy a Kinetic comet or a karizma instead?

from the above post see the comparison and you can see for yourself that the quality of the bajaj is poor enough!

[burnt.]

Originally Posted by rider60

from the above post see the comparison and you can see for yourself that the quality of the bajaj is poor enough!

Well, you've missed the entire point of my post. With every bike you gain some and lose some. There is no blanket rule that one manufacturer is better than the other.

From my experience the Yamaha is more reliable in components not relating to the engine. The Bajaj is showing signs of rusting, thats all. And the speedo cable needing replacement twice. But overall the Bajaj is more VFM. The Enticer was 54K on-road. This was the earlier version without disc brakes and electric start. The Avenger cost me 65K on road with disc brakes ,electric start and the beautiful 180cc engine. The Avenger to me is the better designed machine. It's stability is amazing, best among Indian bikes IMO. (The bullet beats it in straight line stability). The Yamaha doesn't feel stable in high speed cornering. Also, the Bajaj engine is smoother, more powerful and returns better FE. But the quality of some of the parts can be improved though.

On the whole I wont say that Bajaj bikes quality is sub-standard. Yes, the quality of some parts needs improvement. Eg: Rusting of silencers. The Pulsar also seems to suffer from this problem. Other than that, they are fantastic bikes to drive. You will never regret buying their bikes. The spares are also pretty cheap.

Saying one manufacturer is better than the other is pointless. You buy what works for you.

The XCD problems are not really serious ones. Not the type that will leave you high and dry on the road. It's nice that they have recognized the problem and are replacing it for the already sold bikes. They could have easily corrected it for the bikes being produced now and ignored the ones already sold. The fact that they didn't do that needs appreciation. Similar with the P200 and Krystal cases. If they had remained silent and corrected the prob for the bikes being produced, then no one would have known and the quality issues would have remained to be merely rumors. But they recognized the problems and went ahead and replaced the parts for all the bikes already sold. To me, that shows commitment.

[rider60]

i agree burnt but BAL has more disadvantages and less concentration on quality of their bikes in comparison and are hence a little unreliable in comparison!

[Technocrat]

@burnt: I quoted the Yamaha example only to show that HH & Yamaha are experts in using same engine for different bikes. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

[burnt.]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

@burnt: I quoted the Yamaha example only to show that HH & Yamaha are experts in using same engine for different bikes. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

Yea, I know that's what you meant. But once I started couldn't help but post a comparison of the two bikes even though it was completely OT. Just meant that the Yamaha 125cc engine is not a great one. I hope they are not using the same 125cc on the Enticer on the Gladiator. But the Gladiator having 5 gears and all should be returning better FE figures.

[ego4evr]

Hi All,

I owned oulsar 180 classic , the first genereation pulsar , amzing bike , but to tell you honestly i sufferd with the bike , with so many problems like leakin carb, water seeping into the tank so and so forth

I used the bike for about 68k kms the engine was intact evrything else wa sfalling apart . sold the bike ...

Now i ride HH karizma , i love the quality of the bike its mindblowing , no vibration . I think when it comes to quality no one can come close to HH..

But for invoating products hatts off to Bajaj

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by ego4evr

Hi All,

I owned oulsar 180 classic , the first genereation pulsar , amzing bike , but to tell you honestly i sufferd with the bike , with so many problems like leakin carb, water seeping into the tank so and so forth

I used the bike for about 68k kms the engine was intact evrything else wa sfalling apart . sold the bike ...

Now i ride HH karizma , i love the quality of the bike its mindblowing , no vibration . I think when it comes to quality no one can come close to HH..

But for invoating products hatts off to Bajaj

Can you elaborate more on the falling apart bit. The plastic quality on Bajaj is far better than on HH. The ZMA plastic side panels and front mudguard break even under normal usage, forget a fall. Is it a case of shifting loyalties with the product? How old is ur ZMA?

[mithun]

Whatever be the case, XCD sold 65,000 units since it's launch.

http://www.businessstandard.com/bson...N&autono=29385

[rider60]

Originally Posted by mithun

Whatever be the case, XCD sold 65,000 units since it's launch.

http://www.businessstandard.com/bson...N&autono=29385

how does that make the quality of the bike any better?

this just is just being sold like the CT100 when it was released and then died when platina plunged in, and lets see which bajaj bike cannibalises this model!

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by rider60

how does that make the quality of the bike any better?

this just is just being sold like the CT100 when it was released and then died when platina plunged in, and lets see which bajaj bike cannibalises this model!

If not quality it does show the confidence people have in the brand name and the hence the product. A Brand is not build in a day and a brand stands for more than just quality.