P180 DTSi V1 VS Karizma VS Apache RTR

Technocrat · 27th October 2008, 15:28

Hi guys,

Just got my RTR back from its first service & while riding I was just thinking about various aspects of My Steeds that I Have owned in the last 5 years

Few details on the bike

Pulsar 180 DTSi V1

Bought - 8 November 2003
Mileage- 42000 kms
Sold - February 2006

Karizma

Bought - 11 May 2005
Mileage- 13000 kms
Sold - May 2007

Apache RTR

Bought - 30 September 2008
Mileage- 11000 kms
Sold - June 2010

More Details Here

Here is a small comparo on various aspects of these bikes based on my ownership experience.

RVMs: Best on ZMA, RTR comes 2nd & worst on Pulsar as on Pulsar at higher revs you cant make out much due to vibrations. The RTR's don't vibrate but doesn't have as good coverage as the ZMA's which are though non stylish but fully functional

Vibrations: Pulsar had them on higher gear, ZMA at idle & at around 6-7k band which could be felt on foot pegs, the RTR has it around 5k rpm.

Gears: The P180 I distinctly remember had a very powerful 4th cog & ZMA had good 4th & 5th cogs. The RTR has overall better distribution in all gears & the fifth is good right from as low as 28kph to all the way to top speed(have touched 120kph so far :-D)

Lights: Pulsar worst, ZMA has good spread but not enough bright. The RTRs headlight has slightly less span but is bright.
After ZMA I would prefer to have DC lights on RTR too, I want to do DC headlights for RTR? will help in putting HIDs (if at all) later. of course I would like to know if there are any cons.

Seat Comfort: Best is ZMA. RTR(after getting used to) & Pulsar are same, may be pulsar had slightly better comfort.

Brakes: All the bikes are more or less same, while I simply loved the bite of Pulsar's front disc The RTR ups the game with an even better bite. The ZMa had more relaxed braking.
The rear brakes are best on Pulsars then on RTR & last on ZMA

Steering: Best ZMA being so light, then RTR & then Pulsar due to its weight.

Mileage:
ZMA - Best 36, worst 25
Pulsar - Best 50, worst 34
RTR - Best 50, worst 42 (too early to say actually)

City Riding\Flickability: Pulsar worst, ZMA good but due to its length is problem at times, RTR best thanks to small size, clipons & decent torque

Highway Riding: ZMA best , Pulsar good & RTR might be worst based on the riding I have done so far but will confirm once I do some highway stint

Pillion Comfort: Best ZMA, Pulsar good, RTR scores last

Tires: Best was ZMA, RTR seems second as Pulsar was nervous on stock tires but still too soon to say for RTR

Bricks & bats welcome please ask if I have missed out on any aspect

akshay4587 · 27th October 2008, 15:35

Well said
I can comment only on zma since I own one.

I have it since 22nd Apr 2005 and it has 56K on its odo.
Engine is still on original bore and piston and is still going strong(touchwood).

As for mileage you had the zma for 13K kms but still a best of 33?

I got a best of 47Kmpl and a worst of 27Kmpl

Technocrat · 27th October 2008, 15:36

Ops correction its 36 but Yes Akshaye, I could never ride the ZMA in economy mode

phamilyman · 27th October 2008, 15:37

Lovely Comparo. For a second, I thought it would be a Resale # ThRee

balenopower · 27th October 2008, 15:56

why did you sell off the zma? The RTR after the zma doesent make too much sense.Nice comparo though.

Technocrat · 27th October 2008, 16:02

Lol Hits

@BP: Thanks, why did I sell ZMA? well basically at that point of time I thought my bike days are over. Also the RTR fits my current requirement quite well.

rranjith_kum · 27th October 2008, 19:45

Techno : very well written and crisp to the point, looks like I should learn a lot from you on how to post a good thread !!
I just have one question did you do anything for the lubrication of your Apache's drivechain and sprocket ?

Sankar · 27th October 2008, 20:52

Nice report Kedar. Could you also post problems you faced, technical and dealer related, with the bikes during your period of ownership?

Technocrat · 28th October 2008, 11:14

@rranjith_kum: Thanks buddy, No I havent done anything for chain lubrication yet.

@Sankar: Good point. I will list out the issues & post soon.

kphilip · 28th October 2008, 12:09

hey techno, nice review there... I've heard from someone ur bike always looked tidy and polished.. tell me some points how you maintain your bikes... All the 3 looks brand new..

pulsarmaniac · 28th October 2008, 13:57

@technocrat: i am facing a problem with the pulsar lately.the fuel cap on the tank has a slight opening so whenever it rains water seeps inside. can i do something other than replace the cap? another problem is that whenever i rev harder, the fuel flow stops for a while and the engine stops. is this due to overflow of fuel or something else? since you have a nice experience with the pulsar i thought may be you could help me. didnt want to start a thread for such a problem.my side stand is a bit tilted.is the overflow due to this. these days i switch off the fuel tap whenever i park it somewhere. the problem is gone for a while.but is there a permanent solution to this. please help!

Technocrat · 29th October 2008, 08:01

Thanks kphilip, nothing much man just get it regularly washed & polish it once a month & your bike would be always shining.

Pulsarmaniac: There is plastic cap available for pulsar tank caps in Mumbai(not sure if its available elsewhere as I haven't seen it in Pune) this takes care of the water seeping in tank problem.

The intial lot of V1 pulsars had a problem with their fuel pipe(or was it something else cant remember now) it was observed that on hard revving the bikes used to stal so they had replaced them with some new compound stuff.

Does your bike start after stopping immediately or it takes some time?

pulsarmaniac · 29th October 2008, 08:18

it takes some time to start.i have checked the fuel removing the fuel pipe from the tap so many times.the fuel stops from the tap itself. is this just because of the air from the fuel cap? should i change the tap and pipe and may be get the tank cleaned once?do you think that will help?and i hope you can post some pic of the plastic fuel cap.must be a cover right?

Technocrat · 29th October 2008, 08:39

it was some fuel part but cant remember what exactly it was, sorry man.

Next time try this, once your bike halts, open the tank & close it back & then start the bike.

Yes its plastic cap with a zip, dont have a pic but may be you can check with some mechanic

Technocrat · 10th February 2009, 15:08

Alright here is another update after doing close to 4000 kms on the RTR now.

Recently I did some riding with a pillion & I must admit of all the three bikes this is the only one whose performance goes down somehwat with a pillion, also the bike bounces all over the place while gioing over uneven surfaces with pillion.

Never felt any power loss with a pillion on board with the 180 & ZMA.

In all three cases I am comparing scenarios where the pillion was an average weight Adult.

Also about RVMs although they are better than Pulsars at high speed the range of vision (wide view) is somewhat less than those of pulsars.

27th October 2008, 15:28	#1
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	P180 DTSi V1 VS Karizma VS Apache RTR Hi guys, Just got my RTR back from its first service & while riding I was just thinking about various aspects of My Steeds that I Have owned in the last 5 years Few details on the bike Pulsar 180 DTSi V1 Bought - 8 November 2003 Mileage- 42000 kms Sold - February 2006 Karizma Bought - 11 May 2005 Mileage- 13000 kms Sold - May 2007 Apache RTR Bought - 30 September 2008 Mileage- 11000 kms Sold - June 2010 More Details Here Here is a small comparo on various aspects of these bikes based on my ownership experience. RVMs: Best on ZMA, RTR comes 2nd & worst on Pulsar as on Pulsar at higher revs you cant make out much due to vibrations. The RTR's don't vibrate but doesn't have as good coverage as the ZMA's which are though non stylish but fully functional Vibrations: Pulsar had them on higher gear, ZMA at idle & at around 6-7k band which could be felt on foot pegs, the RTR has it around 5k rpm. Gears: The P180 I distinctly remember had a very powerful 4th cog & ZMA had good 4th & 5th cogs. The RTR has overall better distribution in all gears & the fifth is good right from as low as 28kph to all the way to top speed(have touched 120kph so far :-D) Lights: Pulsar worst, ZMA has good spread but not enough bright. The RTRs headlight has slightly less span but is bright. After ZMA I would prefer to have DC lights on RTR too, I want to do DC headlights for RTR? will help in putting HIDs (if at all) later. of course I would like to know if there are any cons. Seat Comfort: Best is ZMA. RTR(after getting used to) & Pulsar are same, may be pulsar had slightly better comfort. Brakes: All the bikes are more or less same, while I simply loved the bite of Pulsar's front disc The RTR ups the game with an even better bite. The ZMa had more relaxed braking. The rear brakes are best on Pulsars then on RTR & last on ZMA Steering: Best ZMA being so light, then RTR & then Pulsar due to its weight. Mileage: ZMA - Best 36, worst 25 Pulsar - Best 50, worst 34 RTR - Best 50, worst 42 (too early to say actually) City Riding\Flickability: Pulsar worst, ZMA good but due to its length is problem at times, RTR best thanks to small size, clipons & decent torque Highway Riding: ZMA best , Pulsar good & RTR might be worst based on the riding I have done so far but will confirm once I do some highway stint Pillion Comfort: Best ZMA, Pulsar good, RTR scores last Tires: Best was ZMA, RTR seems second as Pulsar was nervous on stock tires but still too soon to say for RTR Bricks & bats welcome please ask if I have missed out on any aspect Last edited by Technocrat : 14th September 2011 at 19:38.
	() Thanks

27th October 2008, 15:35	#2
akshay4587 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chandigarh/Mohali/Ambala Cantt Posts: 4,151 Thanked: 4,525 Times View My Garage	Well said I can comment only on zma since I own one. I have it since 22nd Apr 2005 and it has 56K on its odo. Engine is still on original bore and piston and is still going strong(touchwood). As for mileage you had the zma for 13K kms but still a best of 33? I got a best of 47Kmpl and a worst of 27Kmpl
	() Thanks

27th October 2008, 15:36	#3
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Ops correction its 36 but Yes Akshaye, I could never ride the ZMA in economy mode
	() Thanks

27th October 2008, 15:37	#4
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Lovely Comparo. For a second, I thought it would be a Resale # ThRee
	() Thanks

27th October 2008, 15:56	#5
balenopower BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 957 Thanked: 465 Times View My Garage	why did you sell off the zma? The RTR after the zma doesent make too much sense.Nice comparo though.
	() Thanks

27th October 2008, 16:02	#6
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Lol Hits @BP: Thanks, why did I sell ZMA? well basically at that point of time I thought my bike days are over. Also the RTR fits my current requirement quite well.
	() Thanks

27th October 2008, 19:45	#7
rranjith_kum BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Coimbatore/ Aachen Posts: 693 Thanked: 20 Times View My Garage	Techno : very well written and crisp to the point, looks like I should learn a lot from you on how to post a good thread !! I just have one question did you do anything for the lubrication of your Apache's drivechain and sprocket ?
	() Thanks

27th October 2008, 20:52	#8
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,766 Thanked: 9,054 Times	Nice report Kedar. Could you also post problems you faced, technical and dealer related, with the bikes during your period of ownership?
	() Thanks

28th October 2008, 11:14	#9
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	@rranjith_kum: Thanks buddy, No I havent done anything for chain lubrication yet. @Sankar: Good point. I will list out the issues & post soon.
	() Thanks

28th October 2008, 12:09	#10
kphilip BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cochin Posts: 333 Thanked: 6 Times	hey techno, nice review there... I've heard from someone ur bike always looked tidy and polished.. tell me some points how you maintain your bikes... All the 3 looks brand new..
	() Thanks

28th October 2008, 13:57	#11
pulsarmaniac BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 225 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	@technocrat: i am facing a problem with the pulsar lately.the fuel cap on the tank has a slight opening so whenever it rains water seeps inside. can i do something other than replace the cap? another problem is that whenever i rev harder, the fuel flow stops for a while and the engine stops. is this due to overflow of fuel or something else? since you have a nice experience with the pulsar i thought may be you could help me. didnt want to start a thread for such a problem.my side stand is a bit tilted.is the overflow due to this. these days i switch off the fuel tap whenever i park it somewhere. the problem is gone for a while.but is there a permanent solution to this. please help!
	() Thanks

29th October 2008, 08:01	#12
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Thanks kphilip, nothing much man just get it regularly washed & polish it once a month & your bike would be always shining. Pulsarmaniac: There is plastic cap available for pulsar tank caps in Mumbai(not sure if its available elsewhere as I haven't seen it in Pune) this takes care of the water seeping in tank problem. The intial lot of V1 pulsars had a problem with their fuel pipe(or was it something else cant remember now) it was observed that on hard revving the bikes used to stal so they had replaced them with some new compound stuff. Does your bike start after stopping immediately or it takes some time?
	() Thanks

29th October 2008, 08:18	#13
pulsarmaniac BHPian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 225 Thanked: 13 Times View My Garage	it takes some time to start.i have checked the fuel removing the fuel pipe from the tap so many times.the fuel stops from the tap itself. is this just because of the air from the fuel cap? should i change the tap and pipe and may be get the tank cleaned once?do you think that will help?and i hope you can post some pic of the plastic fuel cap.must be a cover right?
	() Thanks

29th October 2008, 08:39	#14
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	it was some fuel part but cant remember what exactly it was, sorry man. Next time try this, once your bike halts, open the tank & close it back & then start the bike. Yes its plastic cap with a zip, dont have a pic but may be you can check with some mechanic
	() Thanks

10th February 2009, 15:08	#15
Technocrat Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: GTA Posts: 14,813 Thanked: 2,700 Times	Alright here is another update after doing close to 4000 kms on the RTR now. Recently I did some riding with a pillion & I must admit of all the three bikes this is the only one whose performance goes down somehwat with a pillion, also the bike bounces all over the place while gioing over uneven surfaces with pillion. Never felt any power loss with a pillion on board with the 180 & ZMA. In all three cases I am comparing scenarios where the pillion was an average weight Adult. Also about RVMs although they are better than Pulsars at high speed the range of vision (wide view) is somewhat less than those of pulsars. Last edited by Technocrat : 11th February 2009 at 19:05.
	() Thanks