New Bullet Fan Needs Help!

JayPrashanth · 5th August 2009, 13:40

Okie,

Here we go. I bought a Shakeel Goldie three weeks ago on a rainy Pune Saturday. I put it on immediately and the engine felt smoother and eager to rev, well relatively. I was already running a 125 main and a 20 pilot anticipating a need for upjetting.

The bull pulled well at the higher end but the low end response was zilch. I got pissed off cos my LB500 was a torque monster with the stock pipe.

Two days with the unfinished goldie, I took it off for chrome plating. Meanwhile, I switched back to the stock bazooka silencer and immediately felt the improved acceleration. Was disappointed with the goldie.

Started thinking about why this was happening. I did a few plug chops. The plugs were showing a rich pilot and a perfect needle. Now, the main jet was showing a half rich-half lean colouring on the porcelain(electrode) part of the plug. This was when I got to know that the base ring is the main indicator jetting. Checked the base ring. It showed a decent ring of soot. So jetting is on the richer side. So, no power loss due to jetting.

Then, I got the hot tube welded off from the bend pipe. Now, I could experience what lack of back pressure does to acceleration. The punch was there at the higher revs but my Bull felt flat at the lower revs on the stock pipes. Effect is the same as that of goldie. So, the goldie actually reduces backpressure, thereby acceleration. Now, my goldie had arrived back after chroming. I put it on and now the low end accleration wasn't all that bad. Don't ask me how as my guess is as good as yours. I concluded that a bend pipe-(cat con)+goldie=best bet.

Now, I wanted to fiddle around with the jetting a little. I started off with a 135 mains. Result: the engine almost cut off on me at 80 in third gear. So, went down to a 130. Same effect. So, jetting too lean/rich. The plug showed a lot of soot at WOT also. Conclusion: rich. I also had a minor electrical problem on my LB500: a faulty key switch. This problem was amplified at WOT when the vibes rise leading to frequent disruptions in current to the engine. This, actually was the cause of my bull choking at 80 in third, not the jetting.

So replaced the ignition key system and tried a flat out run. Now, there was no sputtering at WOT but the engine used to jerk- kind of on and off response at WOT. Indications of a possible lean/rich mixture again. Did a plug chop. Plug indicates a rich mixture.

Now, I didn't feel like downjetting. So, what was the next option? A free-er flowing filter. I spoke to the BIG MAN at Bangalore. He hadn't yet developed a filter-jet kit for the LB500. So,I zeroed in on a K&N pod filter. I plonked a R-1060 on and tried out the 130 jet. Worked like a charm but was just a little lean. Did a 100 indicated in third gear. Went up to 135 and now I am running a 140 main jet. Now, my bull is running a custom made perforated MSD shroud for the K&N filter so that thieves cut their hands badly before they flick my filter. Now, I'm running a bit rich but that is ok with me. I am doing decent indicated speeds with power all through the rev range. Overall, the goldie with the K&N plus upjetting does help dish out some decent power, especially mid range and above. The engine, for a bullet, revs more eagerly and feels better.

PS: Chinmay Dangre(9822212496) at Pune made me good quality jets. So, if you need bigger jets, you may contact him.

niks_devil666 · 5th August 2009, 23:43

I just got my new 500 LB today , wanted to ask about run-in methods. Previously used to go for mototune but after reading this - >The Bullet: Mystries & Myths - Running-in a new Bullet I am skeptical about it.

Any suggestions?

BTW, some pics of the bike -> Mach V pictures by nikhilsood911 - Photobucket

JayPrashanth · 6th August 2009, 08:41

Don't use the Mototune method for any of the bullets. Ride with 1/4th throttle in all gears till 500Ks. Then shift to 1/3rd throttle till 1000Ks. Half throttle till 2000. 3/4th till 3000. After 3000, use full throttle when necessary. Make sure you vary speeds during run in. Don't get stuck at a single rpm for long. And DO NOT lug the engine. Buy a Pete Snidal manual online/Nandan. Also, be sure to change your engine oil at 500Ks. Then at 1500Ks and then at 3000Ks. After that, a 2000K drain interval is preferred.

PS: Don't hold the clutch for more than 5 seconds when you are stationary with the engine running.

Cheers,
Jay

niks_devil666 · 6th August 2009, 09:34

1/4th throttle is gonna be tough thing to do , with me used to ripping the 220 , and Mach V delivering awesome torq all the time

Anyways , will try to do it for sure.

JayPrashanth · 6th August 2009, 16:35

^^^^^
No pain = no gain, especially on a RE

Cheers,

Jay

JayPrashanth · 6th August 2009, 17:07

People heading out to the hills/remote places for touring, especially on early LB500s have gotten themselves stranded in the middle of nowhere due to the sprag clutch giving way. In late 2008, RE came out with a delay circuit which helped get rid of EMI that supposedly caused most issues.

Now, the sprag clutch issues are pretty much resolved with this fix, but long term reliability is still unknown. For this, most LB500 owners on tour prefer to throw the sprag clutch away and prefer kicking their LB500s to life.

Now, I was planning to go the same route. But, my mech had other ideas. He said that the inner sprocket that drives the sprag clutch can be replaced with that of the non-ES sprocket. This single swap effectively keeps the sprag intact but without the drive to the ES. All it takes is 30 minutes. If you want the ES back on, you just need to refit the original geared sprocket and voila, you are ready to roll with the ES on. The non geared original RE sprocket costs about Rs400 and is available at RE spare parts shops. Plug and play.

PS: Make sure you disconnect the ES switch in your tool box. This will render the ES button on your RH switchgear redundant. So, now the battery will not drive the ES motor till you reconnect the white ES switch in the toolbox.

Cheers,

Jay

niks_devil666 · 7th August 2009, 13:05

Jay : So the 2009 models of the LB should not have this ?

Spitfire · 7th August 2009, 13:16

Had a look at an ES equipped Bullet. The engineering and the stress bearing components leave a lot to be desired. Who makes this kit for RE?

I would be surprised if its Lucas or Bosch. Would have expected a much better design.

PS: Never used a ES Bullet but a good friend owns one, dosent have many problems as he knows how to live with a Bullet.

niks_devil666 · 7th August 2009, 13:27

^ in that case my frnd owns a 350 machismo since may 07. He never ever faced issues with the ES and has done 30k kms now. Is it that he just got lucky

Spitfire · 7th August 2009, 13:41

He knows how to use an ES. I have seen folks misuse an ES on the bullet and the kit is somehow not very forgiving towards any abuse. I think it is more of a hack job to get a kit on the Bullet instead of specifically designing one for it.

Anyone know better? Can you please clear my understanding if wrong. Thanks in advance.

Sankar · 7th August 2009, 13:49

ES works fine in the 350's its the 500 avls that it gives problems.
God knows who designed it prolly RE themselves, the es motor on non export models is some wellwin brand. But most es failure is not motor failing but its the sprag.

MumBiker · 7th August 2009, 14:08

I recently replaced my Sprag Clutch & the Primary Cover. My Starter Motor is Nippon Denso. I also replaced the Standard CDI with one with the Retard/Delay Timing. The new CDI is the one provided with the newer mach 500's. The problem now seems to be solved.

The spares cost me as follows :

Sprag Clutch - 3750
Cover - 3750
CDI - 900
Total : Rs.8400/-

The solution to the "backfiring sprag clutch destruction issue" in the older units is to hold the starter a couple of seconds longer after the engine fires up or replace the CDI with the newer one

niks_devil666 · 13th August 2009, 17:53

Folks , I was wondering if any clutchless shits will cause issues in the gearbox. I have this habit of doing them all the time and now I did it a cpl of times unintentionally. Please advise.

GreaseMonk · 13th August 2009, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by niks_devil666

Folks , I was wondering if any clutchless shits will cause issues in the gearbox. I have this habit of doing them all the time and now I did it a cpl of times unintentionally. Please advise.

I believe if you do it perfectly, without any jerks, it should not damage the gear box.

Lol at the spelling of 'shifts'!

niks_devil666 · 14th August 2009, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaseMonk

I believe if you do it perfectly, without any jerks, it should not damage the gear box.

Lol at the spelling of 'shifts'!

ok thanks , the "shifts" are done correctly

on the spelling

, how do i edit my post ?

5th August 2009, 13:40	#241
JayPrashanth Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore/Goa Posts: 1,302 Thanked: 2,074 Times	triumphs and travails of goldie+K&N+upjetting Okie, Here we go. I bought a Shakeel Goldie three weeks ago on a rainy Pune Saturday. I put it on immediately and the engine felt smoother and eager to rev, well relatively. I was already running a 125 main and a 20 pilot anticipating a need for upjetting. The bull pulled well at the higher end but the low end response was zilch. I got pissed off cos my LB500 was a torque monster with the stock pipe. Two days with the unfinished goldie, I took it off for chrome plating. Meanwhile, I switched back to the stock bazooka silencer and immediately felt the improved acceleration. Was disappointed with the goldie. Started thinking about why this was happening. I did a few plug chops. The plugs were showing a rich pilot and a perfect needle. Now, the main jet was showing a half rich-half lean colouring on the porcelain(electrode) part of the plug. This was when I got to know that the base ring is the main indicator jetting. Checked the base ring. It showed a decent ring of soot. So jetting is on the richer side. So, no power loss due to jetting. Then, I got the hot tube welded off from the bend pipe. Now, I could experience what lack of back pressure does to acceleration. The punch was there at the higher revs but my Bull felt flat at the lower revs on the stock pipes. Effect is the same as that of goldie. So, the goldie actually reduces backpressure, thereby acceleration. Now, my goldie had arrived back after chroming. I put it on and now the low end accleration wasn't all that bad. Don't ask me how as my guess is as good as yours. I concluded that a bend pipe-(cat con)+goldie=best bet. Now, I wanted to fiddle around with the jetting a little. I started off with a 135 mains. Result: the engine almost cut off on me at 80 in third gear. So, went down to a 130. Same effect. So, jetting too lean/rich. The plug showed a lot of soot at WOT also. Conclusion: rich. I also had a minor electrical problem on my LB500: a faulty key switch. This problem was amplified at WOT when the vibes rise leading to frequent disruptions in current to the engine. This, actually was the cause of my bull choking at 80 in third, not the jetting. So replaced the ignition key system and tried a flat out run. Now, there was no sputtering at WOT but the engine used to jerk- kind of on and off response at WOT. Indications of a possible lean/rich mixture again. Did a plug chop. Plug indicates a rich mixture. Now, I didn't feel like downjetting. So, what was the next option? A free-er flowing filter. I spoke to the BIG MAN at Bangalore. He hadn't yet developed a filter-jet kit for the LB500. So,I zeroed in on a K&N pod filter. I plonked a R-1060 on and tried out the 130 jet. Worked like a charm but was just a little lean. Did a 100 indicated in third gear. Went up to 135 and now I am running a 140 main jet. Now, my bull is running a custom made perforated MSD shroud for the K&N filter so that thieves cut their hands badly before they flick my filter. Now, I'm running a bit rich but that is ok with me. I am doing decent indicated speeds with power all through the rev range. Overall, the goldie with the K&N plus upjetting does help dish out some decent power, especially mid range and above. The engine, for a bullet, revs more eagerly and feels better. PS: Chinmay Dangre(9822212496) at Pune made me good quality jets. So, if you need bigger jets, you may contact him.
	() Thanks

5th August 2009, 23:43	#242
niks_devil666 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 535 Thanked: 237 Times	new 500LB I just got my new 500 LB today , wanted to ask about run-in methods. Previously used to go for mototune but after reading this - >The Bullet: Mystries & Myths - Running-in a new Bullet I am skeptical about it. Any suggestions? BTW, some pics of the bike -> Mach V pictures by nikhilsood911 - Photobucket Last edited by niks_devil666 : 5th August 2009 at 23:44.
	() Thanks

6th August 2009, 08:41	#243
JayPrashanth Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore/Goa Posts: 1,302 Thanked: 2,074 Times	Don't use the Mototune method for any of the bullets. Ride with 1/4th throttle in all gears till 500Ks. Then shift to 1/3rd throttle till 1000Ks. Half throttle till 2000. 3/4th till 3000. After 3000, use full throttle when necessary. Make sure you vary speeds during run in. Don't get stuck at a single rpm for long. And DO NOT lug the engine. Buy a Pete Snidal manual online/Nandan. Also, be sure to change your engine oil at 500Ks. Then at 1500Ks and then at 3000Ks. After that, a 2000K drain interval is preferred. PS: Don't hold the clutch for more than 5 seconds when you are stationary with the engine running. Cheers, Jay
	() Thanks

6th August 2009, 09:34	#244
niks_devil666 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 535 Thanked: 237 Times	1/4th throttle is gonna be tough thing to do , with me used to ripping the 220 , and Mach V delivering awesome torq all the time Anyways , will try to do it for sure.
	() Thanks

6th August 2009, 16:35	#245
JayPrashanth Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore/Goa Posts: 1,302 Thanked: 2,074 Times	^^^^^ No pain = no gain, especially on a RE Cheers, Jay
	() Thanks

6th August 2009, 17:07	#246
JayPrashanth Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore/Goa Posts: 1,302 Thanked: 2,074 Times	Disabling ES on LB500 mechanically with the sprag still in place People heading out to the hills/remote places for touring, especially on early LB500s have gotten themselves stranded in the middle of nowhere due to the sprag clutch giving way. In late 2008, RE came out with a delay circuit which helped get rid of EMI that supposedly caused most issues. Now, the sprag clutch issues are pretty much resolved with this fix, but long term reliability is still unknown. For this, most LB500 owners on tour prefer to throw the sprag clutch away and prefer kicking their LB500s to life. Now, I was planning to go the same route. But, my mech had other ideas. He said that the inner sprocket that drives the sprag clutch can be replaced with that of the non-ES sprocket. This single swap effectively keeps the sprag intact but without the drive to the ES. All it takes is 30 minutes. If you want the ES back on, you just need to refit the original geared sprocket and voila, you are ready to roll with the ES on. The non geared original RE sprocket costs about Rs400 and is available at RE spare parts shops. Plug and play. PS: Make sure you disconnect the ES switch in your tool box. This will render the ES button on your RH switchgear redundant. So, now the battery will not drive the ES motor till you reconnect the white ES switch in the toolbox. Cheers, Jay
	() Thanks

7th August 2009, 13:05	#247
niks_devil666 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 535 Thanked: 237 Times	Jay : So the 2009 models of the LB should not have this ?
	() Thanks

7th August 2009, 13:16	#248
Spitfire BANNED Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka Posts: 3,312 Thanked: 774 Times	Had a look at an ES equipped Bullet. The engineering and the stress bearing components leave a lot to be desired. Who makes this kit for RE? I would be surprised if its Lucas or Bosch. Would have expected a much better design. PS: Never used a ES Bullet but a good friend owns one, dosent have many problems as he knows how to live with a Bullet.
	() Thanks

7th August 2009, 13:27	#249
niks_devil666 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 535 Thanked: 237 Times	^ in that case my frnd owns a 350 machismo since may 07. He never ever faced issues with the ES and has done 30k kms now. Is it that he just got lucky
	() Thanks

7th August 2009, 13:41	#250
Spitfire BANNED Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka Posts: 3,312 Thanked: 774 Times	He knows how to use an ES. I have seen folks misuse an ES on the bullet and the kit is somehow not very forgiving towards any abuse. I think it is more of a hack job to get a kit on the Bullet instead of specifically designing one for it. Anyone know better? Can you please clear my understanding if wrong. Thanks in advance.
	() Thanks

7th August 2009, 13:49	#251
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,766 Thanked: 9,053 Times	ES works fine in the 350's its the 500 avls that it gives problems. God knows who designed it prolly RE themselves, the es motor on non export models is some wellwin brand. But most es failure is not motor failing but its the sprag.
	() Thanks

7th August 2009, 14:08	#252
MumBiker BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 89 Thanked: 12 Times View My Garage	I recently replaced my Sprag Clutch & the Primary Cover. My Starter Motor is Nippon Denso. I also replaced the Standard CDI with one with the Retard/Delay Timing. The new CDI is the one provided with the newer mach 500's. The problem now seems to be solved. The spares cost me as follows : Sprag Clutch - 3750 Cover - 3750 CDI - 900 Total : Rs.8400/- The solution to the "backfiring sprag clutch destruction issue" in the older units is to hold the starter a couple of seconds longer after the engine fires up or replace the CDI with the newer one
	() Thanks

13th August 2009, 17:53	#253
niks_devil666 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 535 Thanked: 237 Times	Folks , I was wondering if any clutchless shits will cause issues in the gearbox. I have this habit of doing them all the time and now I did it a cpl of times unintentionally. Please advise.
	() Thanks