Yamaha R15 or Thunderbird twinspark - Which???

sriramv.iyer · 6th January 2009, 19:39

Please don't buy an R15 if you are riding only within the city. You need to downshift most of the times. I wouldn't recommend R15 for city driving unless you got some cool winding roads and plain stretches.

Regarding rear-seat, it is not bad, unless both the riders are oversize.

I have R15 and driven bullet a lot - The bullet used to freak me out by stopping a lot in traffic signals, and I had to kick start it - sometimes more than a few times. But despite all its quirks, I still love the bullet for both city and off city drives.

R15 rocks when roads are empty, which unfortunately isn't true within the cities.

dwaraka · 6th January 2009, 20:15

For a highway ride, single on saddle R15 is the best answer. You are not stopping for engine cooling because R15 has a radiator. Speed is good and cruising speed could be achieved. Lighter on road.

TBTS is compared to its own breed, is a better engine and gives good mileage and comfort. Seating in TBTS is made good for two. Cruiser bike. Continuous ride for long hours is a question because of overheating. Being All Aluminium engine, cooling time is less. It's an amazing bike on highway and cities too

Go for TBTS you will not regret buy.

Dwarak

JayPrashanth · 6th January 2009, 20:33

To be brutally frank, the Yamaha servicing in India sucks and it sucks big time. I have personally experienced it with my Yamaha YBX125. Just last week I encountered a mechanic(infact the so-called service supervisor) at Bangalore Wheels who said that a bike's cylinder couldn't be rebored. With such people around, you can imagine what kind of service your motorcycle, which you bought with your hard earned money, will get. The most disheartening fact is that the dealer doesn't seem to be bothered to provide service to older bike nor solving the recurring service issues. Now where does that leave you? Buy the R15, only if you will upgrade to the faster and much better bike that will appear on the horizon in maybe 3 years. The Yamaha R15 is a wonderful motorcycle which can even be called the best your money can buy in India. But, sadly it is let down by the pathetic service back up of the Yamaha dealerships.

Coming to the TBTS, RE also have a pathetic service record further amplified by the bad quality control right at where the motorcycles are produced. BUT, their bikes( especially the older ones-std350, electra and AVLs) can be serviced by the local bullet mechanics who more often than not are much better than the A.S.Ss. The TBTS however, is the most untested of the REs, but has a UCE engine which will probably be much more reliable and will require lesser maintenance. The engine is still simple enough to be serviced by the local bullet mechanics. Also, REs are motorcycles which can be used for many many years unlike the sporty Indo-Jap motorcyles which start looking dated and obsolete very soon.

Coming to the dynamics and performance, the R15 is much more reliable, faster, better handler, cutting edge, etc than the TBTS per se. But the TBTs has something that the R15 can never match, an unmatched aura and amazing road presence. And with some TLC, the TBTS will also be a very reliable steed. Power wise, tha extra torque of the TBTS will be a boon for you as you intend to ride with your wife as pillion. But, be prepared to spend some extra time maintaining the TBTS. IMHO, go for the TBTS over the R15.

hollywoodhogan · 7th January 2009, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwaraka

For a highway ride, single on saddle R15 is the best answer. You are not stopping for engine cooling because R15 has a radiator.

Being All Aluminium engine, cooling time is less. It's an amazing bike on highway and cities too

Go for TBTS you will not regret buy.

Dwarak

am sorry dwarak but the heating issues you are referring to are 1970s issues, and not anymore. stopping for engine cooling is history buddy. i really do not know from where you have deciphered that todays engines need to be stopped to be cooled, because it is no longer relevant.

neither the r15 nor the tbts need to be stopped to prevent overheating. both have their optimum operating temperature and its certainly not a function of how long you allow it to cool.

TuffRyder · 7th January 2009, 01:15

Hollywoodhogan: Im not sure if it stopped in the 70s. My 1997 RE heats up quicker than the 1980 RE that I have. Once pushed the 1997 RE so much on the highway that it overheated and seized. It had just finished a full service the previous day. Im sure overheating on RE still remains a problem, not sure of the newer AVL engines though.

cruiser_1982 · 7th January 2009, 08:04

If you already have a ride and buying this as a secondary one, go for R15. You will appreciate the "fun" factor in driving the R15. But if the bike is going to be your primary ride, I will suggest you to go with Thunderbird. Thunderbird is very much reliable than the older bullets. Being your primary ride, it wont cause as much stress on your back,as a R15 will do on longer periods of driving.

sriramv.iyer · 7th January 2009, 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

But the TBTs has something that the R15 can never match, an unmatched aura and amazing road presence.

Prashanth, R15 attracts attention whereever it goes - I get enquiries from curious bikers, auto drivers, van / truck drivers, pedestrians everywhere!

Bullet sure has a presence in the road, but for now, R15 is way more exclusive that bullets which are relatively more ubiquitous.

I personally like to stay discreet - It has all been spoilt by the red R15 - Some people may like it that way.

Ashpillai · 7th January 2009, 10:22

A guy in the neighborhood picked up an R15. He is newly married and by what I have seen, is not too much of a road tripper. My better half got a chance to meet his wife, she asked her about the new bike and at she loved it!! Every Sunday we see them from our balcony, the lady hugging the guy hard (I guess its the newly married thing!!).

Now I am told the hug is kind of by default, you keep sliding forward even if you are sitting cross legged. Once we saw her try the "lady like" one sided sit and they had to stop before 15 mts and she went back to straddling(the bike) .

So brother, even though I am a Pulsar rider, I can assure you that if the final decision is going to revolve around your lady, let it not be the R15.

By the way an interesting example for any marketing students out there:

1. Look at the purchase decision making process.

2. Look at the parameters being considered for making the decision.

3. Look at the information seeking behavior.

4. Obviously his family and friends will have opinions too but I am sure more weightage will be assigned to what BHPians will say!!! Cheers Team - BHP!!

Sorry for the lecture!! Again!!

xtremeshock · 7th January 2009, 11:04

Please don't buy the R15 if you plan to take along any passenger at least for their sake, it is very uncomfortable. I couldn't sit half an hour on the pillion seat.

Thunderbird is a much better option for the pillion rider, the other option you could try for is the Zma, very comfortable rear seat and the bike is perfect for highway cruising and city maneuverability.

Spitfire · 7th January 2009, 11:45

Preferably get a small car. You will get one used for the price of a new R15 or Bullet.

dwaraka · 7th January 2009, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodhogan

am sorry dwarak but the heating issues you are referring to are 1970s issues, and not anymore. stopping for engine cooling is history buddy. i really do not know from where you have deciphered that todays engines need to be stopped to be cooled, because it is no longer relevant.

neither the r15 nor the tbts need to be stopped to prevent overheating. both have their optimum operating temperature and its certainly not a function of how long you allow it to cool.

Hollywoodhogan,

May be I am wrong to some extent. But the fact is if engine heats up results in siezing itself. Nothing less. At the most you can ride for 150 kms one stretch. If you see my comment, aluminium engine heats up faster and also cools faster. Nevertheless, is not a match for r15 with radiator. Heating issue cannot be solved in any two wheeler unless you put a radiator like R15.

Dwarak

KK9 · 7th January 2009, 12:54

It gives me great pleasure to see this kind of support and encouragement to me. Few more points, I already have a santro xing car so need the bike as a second bike more for the fun factor plus rx 135 seems old now and does not go more than 80 kn p hr max speed plus there are vibes at that speed. Besides not having disc brakes scares me to go for that speed. I confess that I have, am and will always be a great fan of yamaha as touch wood have never ever faced any probs with my rx 135 4 speed. Even today people are willing to give me my asking price for this bike but am too attached to it to sell it. Am inclined for R15 as it would be reliable, fast, easy to maneuver. Am in mumbai so there are decent highways in and around mumbai to explore the bike plus the lonavala, panchgani ghats too are nearby. Also enfields are traditionally maintenance hungry plus heard some horror stories besides the bike is heavy, I took a td and might find it difficult to control it at high speeds. Besides the other thing is that at speeds above 80 kph it vibrates a lot and only reason am going for a bike is because I wish to explore speeds higher up the powerband. r15 drawback is that wifey doesnt like it, finds it uncomfortable to sit in. But when i took a td of this bike the handling was impressive coupled with the tech on this which justifies its price. The tbts I feel does not justify 1.08 lac price as am scared that even after paying so much if it gives me maintenance hassles then I will be upset.

ram.west · 7th January 2009, 13:43

@ dwarka: But i've done around 220kms stretch in my Thunderbird . It has an AVL engine only. So guess the heating up won't be an issue. And anyways that is the sort of stretch one can drive continuously after which the rider sure needs a break.

NikhilSorot · 7th January 2009, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ram.west

@ dwarka: But i've done around 220kms stretch in my Thunderbird . It has an AVL engine only. So guess the heating up won't be an issue. And anyways that is the sort of stretch one can drive continuously after which the rider sure needs a break.

the rider will get tired after going that long distance so the engines will cool down. Personally I was waiting for the R15 to be launched before, but then when I took a test ride compared to a TBTS and the conditions that you have given, I think the TBTS would be a very good option. R15 is a very good bike too and good looking one indeed, you wouldn't be able to make a difference in the looks of R1 and R15 instantly (after 2 seconds you would ha ha) but then again riding the TBTS is like attaining Nirvana and I am sure your partner would like it too.You can also ask her if she would like to give an opinion or take her to both the showrooms if you can.

dwaraka · 8th January 2009, 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by KK9

It gives me great pleasure to see this kind of support and encouragement to me. Few more points, I already have a santro xing car so need the bike as a second bike more for the fun factor plus rx 135 seems old now and does not go more than 80 kn p hr max speed plus there are vibes at that speed. Besides not having disc brakes scares me to go for that speed. I confess that I have, am and will always be a great fan of yamaha as touch wood have never ever faced any probs with my rx 135 4 speed. Even today people are willing to give me my asking price for this bike but am too attached to it to sell it. Am inclined for R15 as it would be reliable, fast, easy to maneuver. Am in mumbai so there are decent highways in and around mumbai to explore the bike plus the lonavala, panchgani ghats too are nearby. Also enfields are traditionally maintenance hungry plus heard some horror stories besides the bike is heavy, I took a td and might find it difficult to control it at high speeds. Besides the other thing is that at speeds above 80 kph it vibrates a lot and only reason am going for a bike is because I wish to explore speeds higher up the powerband. r15 drawback is that wifey doesnt like it, finds it uncomfortable to sit in. But when i took a td of this bike the handling was impressive coupled with the tech on this which justifies its price. The tbts I feel does not justify 1.08 lac price as am scared that even after paying so much if it gives me maintenance hassles then I will be upset.

KK9, Good that you have made decision for yourself. Have fun riding R15 and post owner's views on purchase.

Dwarak

6th January 2009, 19:39	#16
sriramv.iyer BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 845 Thanked: 739 Times	Please don't buy an R15 if you are riding only within the city. You need to downshift most of the times. I wouldn't recommend R15 for city driving unless you got some cool winding roads and plain stretches. Regarding rear-seat, it is not bad, unless both the riders are oversize. I have R15 and driven bullet a lot - The bullet used to freak me out by stopping a lot in traffic signals, and I had to kick start it - sometimes more than a few times. But despite all its quirks, I still love the bullet for both city and off city drives. R15 rocks when roads are empty, which unfortunately isn't true within the cities.
	() Thanks

6th January 2009, 20:15	#17
dwaraka Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,240 Thanked: 229 Times	For a highway ride, single on saddle R15 is the best answer. You are not stopping for engine cooling because R15 has a radiator. Speed is good and cruising speed could be achieved. Lighter on road. TBTS is compared to its own breed, is a better engine and gives good mileage and comfort. Seating in TBTS is made good for two. Cruiser bike. Continuous ride for long hours is a question because of overheating. Being All Aluminium engine, cooling time is less. It's an amazing bike on highway and cities too Go for TBTS you will not regret buy. Dwarak
	() Thanks

6th January 2009, 20:33	#18
JayPrashanth Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bangalore/Goa Posts: 1,302 Thanked: 2,074 Times	To be brutally frank, the Yamaha servicing in India sucks and it sucks big time. I have personally experienced it with my Yamaha YBX125. Just last week I encountered a mechanic(infact the so-called service supervisor) at Bangalore Wheels who said that a bike's cylinder couldn't be rebored. With such people around, you can imagine what kind of service your motorcycle, which you bought with your hard earned money, will get. The most disheartening fact is that the dealer doesn't seem to be bothered to provide service to older bike nor solving the recurring service issues. Now where does that leave you? Buy the R15, only if you will upgrade to the faster and much better bike that will appear on the horizon in maybe 3 years. The Yamaha R15 is a wonderful motorcycle which can even be called the best your money can buy in India. But, sadly it is let down by the pathetic service back up of the Yamaha dealerships. Coming to the TBTS, RE also have a pathetic service record further amplified by the bad quality control right at where the motorcycles are produced. BUT, their bikes( especially the older ones-std350, electra and AVLs) can be serviced by the local bullet mechanics who more often than not are much better than the A.S.Ss. The TBTS however, is the most untested of the REs, but has a UCE engine which will probably be much more reliable and will require lesser maintenance. The engine is still simple enough to be serviced by the local bullet mechanics. Also, REs are motorcycles which can be used for many many years unlike the sporty Indo-Jap motorcyles which start looking dated and obsolete very soon. Coming to the dynamics and performance, the R15 is much more reliable, faster, better handler, cutting edge, etc than the TBTS per se. But the TBTs has something that the R15 can never match, an unmatched aura and amazing road presence. And with some TLC, the TBTS will also be a very reliable steed. Power wise, tha extra torque of the TBTS will be a boon for you as you intend to ride with your wife as pillion. But, be prepared to spend some extra time maintaining the TBTS. IMHO, go for the TBTS over the R15.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 01:15	#20
TuffRyder BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 494 Thanked: 27 Times	Hollywoodhogan: Im not sure if it stopped in the 70s. My 1997 RE heats up quicker than the 1980 RE that I have. Once pushed the 1997 RE so much on the highway that it overheated and seized. It had just finished a full service the previous day. Im sure overheating on RE still remains a problem, not sure of the newer AVL engines though.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 08:04	#21
cruiser_1982 BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 313 Thanked: 16 Times	If you already have a ride and buying this as a secondary one, go for R15. You will appreciate the "fun" factor in driving the R15. But if the bike is going to be your primary ride, I will suggest you to go with Thunderbird. Thunderbird is very much reliable than the older bullets. Being your primary ride, it wont cause as much stress on your back,as a R15 will do on longer periods of driving.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 10:22	#23
Ashpillai BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Mohali Posts: 52 Thanked: Once	A guy in the neighborhood picked up an R15. He is newly married and by what I have seen, is not too much of a road tripper. My better half got a chance to meet his wife, she asked her about the new bike and at she loved it!! Every Sunday we see them from our balcony, the lady hugging the guy hard (I guess its the newly married thing!!). Now I am told the hug is kind of by default, you keep sliding forward even if you are sitting cross legged. Once we saw her try the "lady like" one sided sit and they had to stop before 15 mts and she went back to straddling(the bike) . So brother, even though I am a Pulsar rider, I can assure you that if the final decision is going to revolve around your lady, let it not be the R15. By the way an interesting example for any marketing students out there: 1. Look at the purchase decision making process. 2. Look at the parameters being considered for making the decision. 3. Look at the information seeking behavior. 4. Obviously his family and friends will have opinions too but I am sure more weightage will be assigned to what BHPians will say!!! Cheers Team - BHP!! Sorry for the lecture!! Again!!
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 11:04	#24
xtremeshock BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 418 Thanked: 177 Times View My Garage	Please don't buy the R15 if you plan to take along any passenger at least for their sake, it is very uncomfortable. I couldn't sit half an hour on the pillion seat. Thunderbird is a much better option for the pillion rider, the other option you could try for is the Zma, very comfortable rear seat and the bike is perfect for highway cruising and city maneuverability.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 11:45	#25
Spitfire BANNED Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Panaji - Goa/Bangalore - Karnataka Posts: 3,312 Thanked: 774 Times	Preferably get a small car. You will get one used for the price of a new R15 or Bullet.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 12:54	#27
KK9 Newbie Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: mumbai Posts: 9 Thanked: Once	Thank you to all team bhpians It gives me great pleasure to see this kind of support and encouragement to me. Few more points, I already have a santro xing car so need the bike as a second bike more for the fun factor plus rx 135 seems old now and does not go more than 80 kn p hr max speed plus there are vibes at that speed. Besides not having disc brakes scares me to go for that speed. I confess that I have, am and will always be a great fan of yamaha as touch wood have never ever faced any probs with my rx 135 4 speed. Even today people are willing to give me my asking price for this bike but am too attached to it to sell it. Am inclined for R15 as it would be reliable, fast, easy to maneuver. Am in mumbai so there are decent highways in and around mumbai to explore the bike plus the lonavala, panchgani ghats too are nearby. Also enfields are traditionally maintenance hungry plus heard some horror stories besides the bike is heavy, I took a td and might find it difficult to control it at high speeds. Besides the other thing is that at speeds above 80 kph it vibrates a lot and only reason am going for a bike is because I wish to explore speeds higher up the powerband. r15 drawback is that wifey doesnt like it, finds it uncomfortable to sit in. But when i took a td of this bike the handling was impressive coupled with the tech on this which justifies its price. The tbts I feel does not justify 1.08 lac price as am scared that even after paying so much if it gives me maintenance hassles then I will be upset.
	() Thanks

7th January 2009, 13:43	#28
ram.west BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: New Hartford,NY Posts: 418 Thanked: 28 Times	@ dwarka: But i've done around 220kms stretch in my Thunderbird . It has an AVL engine only. So guess the heating up won't be an issue. And anyways that is the sort of stretch one can drive continuously after which the rider sure needs a break.
	() Thanks