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-   -   Why not a Single Lever - Double Brakes Concept for motorbikes? (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motorbikes/51783-why-not-single-lever-double-brakes-concept-motorbikes.html)

slipstream 9th January 2009 18:15

Why not a Single Lever - Double Brakes Concept for motorbikes?
 
Wierd thought....Why cant we have a single lever braking design like cars on bikes ? I know for sure that simultaneous braking is a lot more safer than hard braking with your front or your back brakes. Has anyone tried this before ? Or is this so complicated that no one has even bothered to give it a shot ? Your views please

black12rr 9th January 2009 18:37

If its like that , How can I do burnouts then :rules: .

slipstream 9th January 2009 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by black12rr (Post 1123865)
If its like that , How can I do burnouts then .

Good point.....thats 1 reason why manufacturers didnt have this implemented :)

any others ?

supremeBaleno 9th January 2009 19:10

Nice thought, slipstream.
Have also wondered about why it is not done that way in bikes. Maybe the cost is a deterrent here ?

P.S. : Hopefully a couple of posts by you on this thread should get you out of the Newbie status. :) Not that it really makes a difference, but would be good to come out of the jhamela of moderated posts and stuff. Esp. for someone who has been around for 3 years on the forum, been part of many meets, discussions etc.

Rahulkool 9th January 2009 19:20

IIRC there are few models from BMW in which rear brake(foot brake) activates both front and rear brakes. i guess there are too much complexity in this system as you have to balance the bike and front and rear brakes helps in that .....

narayan 9th January 2009 19:29

If I remember correct, Honda introduced this for the CBR1200 super blackbird in sometime 2001-02 ( not sure )- application of the brakes lead to a brake force distribution to both the front and rear.
it was later withdrawn (? ) because most customers did not want it (?)

I can only think of cost/complexity of such a set up as the only deterrent for bikes

aaggoswami 9th January 2009 19:37

Apart from cost and complexicity involved in such setup, the other reason is safety IMO.

Simultaneous braking is lot safer, but that is on a good surface. Simultaneous braking with ABS must be the norm or else if at all the front wheel locks, then this will instantly give rise to front end slide, a slide that is very difficult to catch unlike rear end slide where one can still control the bike.
Personally I will not prefer simultaneous braking. I have my own way of doing it, and that is what biking is for.

Sankar 9th January 2009 19:58

Honda and BMW have this linked braking system in some of their models. The concept is interesting and thier latest systems employ electronics to regulate the ratio of braking force between front and rear wheels.

josepeter 9th January 2009 21:02

Interestingly, the linked braking system used in VFRs and others didnt use only a single lever. In fact both pedal and lever were retained! The rear brake pedal would engage two pistons from the rear caliper and one from the front and the front brake lever vice-versa.

Torqy 9th January 2009 21:10

How will you do a rear wheel slide then?

:)

slipstream 9th January 2009 21:10

well, engine braking is known to be the safest form of braking to cut down speed (without the wheels locking up) so the next best alternative I can think of that would give you increased braking effect (and lesser stopping distance) is simultaneous braking. In fact, all 2 wheeler manufacturers recommend simultaneous braking in their manuals. I'm not even talking technology like ABS...Yes, ABS with Auto Simultaneous Braking (ASB?)
will take safety to another level altogether but just ASB alone would also be much safer than the conventional system, wont it ?

Advantages :
a) Shorter Braking Distance
b) More confidence inspiring (I'm aware that most bikers are apprehensive of using the front brakes and thus end up sliding the rear)
c) Equal wear on front & rear brake shoes - Scheduled maintenance possible

Disadvantages :
a) Cost
b) Complexity (?)
b) Will take some time to get used to

I'm not too convinced that the system is too complex & costly....It should ideally work for scooters that have a conventional left for rear & right for front braking model but could be tweaked for bikes as well....It should be a play of levers at the most

I know its tougher that it sounds stupid: but that itself should be a reason for manufacturers to give it a shot to edge out competition !

Just my 2 cents folks...Is Bajaj listening ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno (Post 1123914)
P.S. : Hopefully a couple of posts by you on this thread should get you out of the Newbie status

@SB : You said it bro ! I'm a newbie no more clap:

dinar 9th January 2009 23:50

Many international bikes have these setup, Honda on the super blackbird,BMW on it's bikes, Yamaha tried it. But all of them kept the front as well as rear brake leveler, one could choose the braking force on the front caliper as well as back by choosing which leveler to press. this technology was stepping stone to ABS on bikes.
On Indian bikes main problem is we still have brakes working on different tech , front hydraulic and rear mechanical setup.

SuperSyn 9th January 2009 23:57

Linked brakes are quite useless on sportbikes (supersports and liter class). The rear tire is barely kissing the surface under hard braking anyway, ABS will only prevent an accident from rear lock up and not slow down you any more than a good grab of the front brake.

Unnecessary engineering, cost and weight. Let the rider decide. Perhaps such system make sense on couches like Glodwing (seen one, never got the chance to ride) but not on most sporty bikes.

manson 10th January 2009 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahulkool (Post 1123933)
IIRC there are few models from BMW in which rear brake(foot brake) activates both front and rear brakes. i guess there are too much complexity in this system as you have to balance the bike and front and rear brakes helps in that .....

Those were called Linked brakes. Even Honda had them on the Blackbird and the pre ABS VFR 800.
For every click on the front brake, the rear brake would come into action too but to a far lesser proportion to assist the front brakes.

Double brakes are absent on motorcycles probably because at high speeds a non ABS bike would lock its rear wheel.
Also, using the rear brake is a commonly used technique to get out of a tank slapper, if the front brake is hooked on to the same lever, the motorcycle would most definitely skid.

manson.

jat 10th January 2009 00:24

For modulation of brakes. Both wheels required different degree of braking to maintain stability druing the entire braking operation. Something like having different tyres for front and rear.


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