[kapiljolly79]

Hey Bikram. That sure is a very good looking RD. Well maintained too. And to all my friends here, there are three RD350's for sale in Naiwalla Karol Bagh, Delhi. One has been converted to a points unit. The other two are regular 350's. My Mechanic traced them down and the lady is asking for a sweet price of 100K for each. You can't miss them. There are three of them and all three are in a beautiful condition. Almost mint. If you need exact pointers as to where these bikes are, just reply. Will definitely let you know. I do not know what models they are and whether they are HT or LT.

[Brutus]

Dont tell me its Joga motors. Frankly, thats the last place i'll go looking for an RD. These ppl were trying to sell me re-sleeved kits as original stock kits,and that too asking for 25 grand. I saw one with them that had a LT cylinder on the left side and an HT on the right. Most of the bikes they sell is without the R/C, so do check if all the papers are clear. And for the amount they are quoting, you could probably find a lot better bikes, especially down south.

[ScarySkulls]

ha ha ha!
Correct on all counts about the famous Aunty that is so expert in conning people. i.e. JOGA motors :-)

The LT-HT cylinder is a classic trick they use to woo new guys to the bike. "Sir, this one has the Low End Torque of the LT and the High End thrust of the HT. This is a hybrid motor. Best of both worlds".

By the way, why going back to the old, inefficient and antiquated Points ignition? I mean, sure that techinology was ok when the bike had it back in early 70's, but it's 2009 now!

[xxaarraa]

Holy, is this Joga motors in carolbagh? I am thinking of renting an Enfield from them for my Manali trip in April. The lady on the phone (sounded very much like a guy speaking) quoted 15,000 deposit and 7500 rent for a 15 day trip.

Should I stay away?

[atul_astro]

I would suggest you run as far as you can with your money

[ilanor]

Just wanted knw if u knew any one in kerala with a RD with proper papers for sale. Doesnt matter if the engine is blown or if its in a bad condition. Just need need to get a bike very cheap but proper papers.

Pls help

Thanks

Teril

[aruncheloor]

Heard there is a bike @ Kunnamkulam, Trichur district... asking 70k.. heard this 2 weeks ago from a friend of mine.. can be sold out by now too.. RDs are so rare in Kerala man.. try getting them from TN.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by ScarySkulls

By the way, why going back to the old, inefficient and antiquated Points ignition? I mean, sure that techinology was ok when the bike had it back in early 70's, but it's 2009 now!

I went back to the points for originality sake. I first used the autoescorts TDI kit, which i think was way better than those RX cdi's people modify for their bikes. The later i wanted something better. What i learnt, or you can say preferred, as far as timing is concerned is that the HT cylinders like a low advance at low and high rpms, but a substantial mid range advance.

Since the TDI kit had static timing, i went along looking for a cdi that had the kind of graph i wanted, and zeroed on the suzuki shogun cdi. I used 2 cdis, which i first used with the stock magneto system, where i got the magnet supercharged and the Cdi coils ,which produce 300volts at 1500rpm, were rewound to produce just the same amount of voltage but twice the amount of current to handle 2 cdi sets. It worked wonders but later i used a 100 halogen so i need a more powerful magneto system, so i took out a very rare alternator from one of the police rd350s, which produce more that 50amps to handle the siren and police red lights, to which i apapted a halls effect laser triggering system for the cdi, the rest remaining the same. This system i used for a lot of time until i went back to the qirginal specs.

You do miss out on a lot of fun by not getting to set the points every sunday
Take care
Bikram

[ScarySkulls]

Originally Posted by brutus

I went back to the points for originality sake. I first used the autoescorts TDI kit, which i think was way better than those RX cdi's people modify for their bikes. The later i wanted something better. What i learnt, or you can say preferred, as far as timing is concerned is that the HT cylinders like a low advance at low and high rpms, but a substantial mid range advance.

I am glad you are referring to the Autoescorts kit as a TDI and not the CDI many claim. Infact, it's just a stupid points replacement kit and that's about it. It suffers the same problem as the points ignition. Static timing and the fact that there is wasted spark since both sparkplugs fire at the same time. What the RD needs is an ignition which has a PROPER timing curve designed SPECIFICALLY for RD350 only and the ability to stop wasted spark and instead charge up a capacitor with that and when time comes to ignite fuel in that particular cylinder, use the regular spark current + from the charged Cap to give one whooper of a spark.
No RX or Shogun kit can pull off both those tricks. I've never checked the shogun timing graph so I'm not too sure if it comes anywhere near what the optimum for the HT cylinders. Personally, I find that extremely unlikely since both engines are very different in construction, port maps, timing etc.

Originally Posted by brutus

Since the TDI kit had static timing, i went along looking for a cdi that had the kind of graph i wanted, and zeroed on the suzuki shogun cdi. I used 2 cdis, which i first used with the stock magneto system, where i got the magnet supercharged and the Cdi coils ,which produce 300volts at 1500rpm, were rewound to produce just the same amount of voltage but twice the amount of current to handle 2 cdi sets. It worked wonders but later i used a 100 halogen so i need a more powerful magneto system, so i took out a very rare alternator from one of the police rd350s, which produce more that 50amps to handle the siren and police red lights, to which i apapted a halls effect laser triggering system for the cdi, the rest remaining the same. This system i used for a lot of time until i went back to the qirginal specs.

Nice! sounds like you had a LOT of fun! :-)
100W does make a LOT of difference on the highways. My cousin's RD back in Ludhiana is running the 100/90W upgrade (besides all the other trick mods) and I have seen and experienced the benefits first hand.

Originally Posted by brutus

You do miss out on a lot of fun by not getting to set the points every sunday

Ha ha ha ha ha ha
The fun of static timing.
I remember those times before we installed the Digital CDI to it. Me and Cousin used to sit down with a timing light every time we wanted to have fun with it. For normal cruising and fooling around, we'd advance it to bump up the midrange and for all out fun, retard the timing to increase the high end.
Crazy days...

[kolimuttai]

What ever the world might say an RD, a white elephant, just old scrap, waste of money - invest in something that gives you return, what the heck - again spending so much time and energy for two metal pieces (pistons)..

I say, feel it... ride it... dream it... live it.... satisfaction guaranteed for all the effort

Good ride mate.

[Brutus]

No actually, the shogun map is quite like what you need on a ht RD(even the Lt needs something like it, but would need greater changes in timing). Not that its a perfect match, but pretty close. All old school bikes ,using electronic ignition in inida used an analog graph. The yamaha bikes use a cdi that advances at a certain rpm, and stays there. The shogun on the other hand needs to go back to a lower spark advance (retarded timing)at a higher rpm since it makes it max power at a relatively higher rpm(somewhere near 8-9000rpm, i guess). At that rpm , even though we would think that the bike needs a more advance timing(the fuel is burning at the same rate, but the piston, since its are pumping faster and completing the revolutions faster, does'nt give it enough time to ignite completely), but the cylinder pressures are so high that the fuel fires like lightening(higher pressure lowers the ignition point, and so does heat, thats why overheating leads to a runaway bike), hence a lower advanced timing.
If you can get your hands at the nippon cdi shogun igintion system, you can try it yourself.

And only the single cylinder electronic ignition kits(if it has just a single pickup device,doenst matter if it has a single or 2 cdi boxes) modified for the RD or the stock RD electronic ignition(that has a sinlge pickup,cdi, and a single ignition coil with 2 outputs) deliver a waste spark, not the points or the autoescorts kit, since then you have a single pickup/point,(TDI) and coil for each cylinder firing independent of the other cylinder. Infact ,a waste spark has some advantages too, and that is it helps save your plugs from oil fouling more than what a single spark per rotation does.

The autoescorts kit is not that bad either, it delivers a spark an inch and a quarter long, so its much better than the points system atleast, and helps fight the fouling problem even more. The problem with this kit, especially with a LT cylinders (which are more prone to overheating, which is due to, besides the port sizes and a leaner mixture, also due to a greater squish chamber), is that it has the capacity to burn a hole into the piston very fast, if the timing is slightly advanced and the bike has a load to carry.

Also the fact that neither the central magnet, nor the pickup is firmly fixed at its place and can move, thereby changing the timing. The central magnet is bolted on top of the cam, with no carter pins or splines or anything of that sort holding it firmly in place, just a single stupid bolt Therefore the forces of inertia can change it pretty soon. Also the pickup has a single screw to hold on too,therefore it too is suspectable to move under vibration, and i doubt that strip of metal that holds the pickup is any good. Its as nimble as a feather, its so soft a metal that it moves quite easily, even with a slight push and i dont know anything about contraction or expansion due to heat/cold cycles, but it sure would change the timing.

I never thought that the system was anything close to fit and forget, coz i had to fix it every now and then. Its not a very precise switch as such. since it has a larger magnet, which actually cuts the current withing a certain range of degrees/or mm below TDC, not exactly at a certain tdc/degree. As it revolves faster, the magnetism changes thus still changing that range somewhat. It could have been made better by using a larger diameter rotor( a huge disc rather than a small button size rotor), a smaller pickup and magnet/ or placing the magnet under the pickup and not on the rotor(as is the original RD cdi system) or by just using optical(laser) hall effect signal devices instead of magnets (I think a number of aftermarket ignition system abroad, including the petronics or piranha kits, use the same kind of optical hall effect switches in a number of afflications.
What i did when using the Autoescorts kit was to use thesignal switches(pickups) from the stock RD electronic kits. I took the stock Rd CDI rotor/cam, which has 2 steel arms on it, each with a number on it (1/2) indication what number cylinder it is meant for, and i used to stock RD CDI pickup/ signal switches and plates, cutting each plate to half(its otherwise a full circler disc) and mounted it on the alternater, such that each plate can be adjusted independent of the other. Hence i now had a rotor that could not move and i had a pair of pickup coils firmly held to the alternater so that it would not move, but still giving me independent timing control of both cylinders, each signalling an Transister switch(TDI), and firing an independent coil. Also it has the magnets placed under the pickup coils so it provides a much more accurate and precise timing range. It worked much better for me than what the autoescorts switches did.
I later also cut off one arm of the rotor(no.2 arm), so as to avoid a waste spark, but i did not notice any difference whatsoever, niether in pickup or top speed, nor the fuel economy, so i replaced the rotor with another on that had 2 arms, atleast it did save me somewhat from fouled plugs(i always did usea double dose of 2t for the bike. The normal amount with the fuel in the tank, and aslo using the extra dose supplied by the auxullary 2t tank. i Just didnt want to risk a seizure, but it never used to smoke a lot either).
Take care,
Bikram

[ScarySkulls]

Originally Posted by brutus

No actually, the shogun map is quite like what you need on a ht RD(even the Lt needs something like it, but would need greater changes in timing). Not that its a perfect match, but pretty close.

I'm extremely skeptical of this, but if you say so....

Originally Posted by brutus

All old school bikes ,using electronic ignition in inida used an analog graph.

Correct. Even if you examined the later model Yamaha 2 strokes like the last RX135's sold in India, each one of them static timing. The timing graph wasn't any graph at all. Just a plain, straight line. You could never have any optimized advance/retard for that particular RPM according to the exact specs of the engine.

Originally Posted by brutus

At that rpm , even though we would think that the bike needs a more advance timing(the fuel is burning at the same rate, but the piston, since its are pumping faster and completing the revolutions faster, does'nt give it enough time to ignite completely), but the cylinder pressures are so high that the fuel fires like lightening(higher pressure lowers the ignition point, and so does heat, thats why overheating leads to a runaway bike), hence a lower advanced timing.

Exactly. To quote lines right out of Graham Bell's book:
"As the engine speed increases, fuel atomisation improves, which means that the fuel will be broken up into smaller particles. Small fuel particles have a proportionately larger surface area, therefore they burn more rapidly, which means less advance is necessary. This is why an engine which required, say, 1.8mm advance running at 10000rpm may require only 1.0mm advance operating at 11500rpm"

Originally Posted by brutus

If you can get your hands at the nippon cdi shogun igintion system, you can try it yourself.

Yup tried. Finally upgraded to a proper Desgined for RD digital CDI kit for a much increased performance, smoothness, fuel economy(also important when you are on a student budget)
Got the perfect ignition map with features like wasted spark removed, curve2 (for an even more aggresive retard at high RPM so that can run chambers safely even with a more advanced base plate timing), 100/90W Electricals, lightened and dynamically balanced rotor for a smoother and faster revving engine (MUCH MUCH lighter than the boat anchor OE rotor)

Originally Posted by brutus

Infact ,a waste spark has some advantages too, and that is it helps save your plugs from oil fouling more than what a single spark per rotation does.

Yes. When you are running the weak autoescort kits, spark fouling can be problem. If you have a well designed ignition that stores all the unwanted spark strength and finally gives 2X the spark charge to the plugs, you will NEVER face that problem.
Example:- The RD one day blew the oil seal. The right side cylinder was was literally getting choked with engine oil. Exams going on. No time to strip the engine and replace the seal. Just kept putting in engine oil and going on.
Bike ran for 300kms+ in the same condition. Normal W5BC spark plugs. ZERO FOULING. Minimal loss of power experienced.
Stock RD Main jet size is 140 or 145. (sorry don't remember exactly)
The RD was running 220Main Jets + 45Pilot jets when the seal blew. The engine was finally repaired after a month long running when there was some free time on hands.

Originally Posted by brutus

The autoescorts kit is not that bad either, it delivers a spark an inch and a quarter long

Excellent. So you know how good the spark strength is on that kit. Now Wait till you see the Digital CDI's spark.

Originally Posted by brutus

but it sure would change the timing.

He he he. Reminds me of your comment earlier. "that's what gives us an excuse to enjoy sitting down every sunday and timing the bike".
Sadly, the CDI ignition never gives these pleasures. Time it once and you are done. It just keeps on running like clockwork. I have repeatedly checked it many many times after extended high speed runs with the Motor seeing 10-11k RPM in the lower 3 gears repeatedly. It just remains the same. Rock solid.

Originally Posted by brutus

I later also cut off one arm of the rotor(no.2 arm), so as to avoid a waste spark, but i did not notice any difference whatsoever, niether in pickup or top speed, nor the fuel economy

That was an extremely nice trick to try. Next time you try doing it again remember that just removing a wasted spark is going to serve no purpose unless and untill you can store it in a nice, fat capacitor and use it to supplement the normal spark when the appropriate time comes.
Should be fun trying to achieve that. Let me know how it goes.

Originally Posted by brutus

What i did when using the Autoescorts kit was to use thesignal switches(pickups) from the stock RD electronic kits. I took the stock Rd CDI rotor/cam, which has 2 steel arms on it, each with a number on it (1/2) indication what number cylinder it is meant for, and i used to stock RD CDI pickup/ signal switches and plates, cutting each plate to half(its otherwise a full circler disc) and mounted it on the alternater, such that each plate can be adjusted independent of the other. Hence i now had a rotor that could not move and i had a pair of pickup coils firmly held to the alternater so that it would not move, but still giving me independent timing control of both cylinders, each signalling an Transister switch(TDI), and firing an independent coil. Also it has the magnets placed under the pickup coils so it provides a much more accurate and precise timing range. It worked much better for me than what the autoescorts switches did.
I later also cut off one arm of the rotor(no.2 arm), so as to avoid a waste spark, but i did not notice any difference whatsoever, niether in pickup or top speed, nor the fuel economy, so i replaced the rotor with another on that had 2 arms, atleast it did save me somewhat from fouled plugs(i always did usea double dose of 2t for the bike. The normal amount with the fuel in the tank, and aslo using the extra dose supplied by the auxullary 2t tank. i Just didnt want to risk a seizure, but it never used to smoke a lot either).
Take care,
Bikram

I respect all the DIY spirit. Only we Punjabis can come up with Jugaads like that
Fun is the name of the game. As long as you are finding fun, it's all cool.

Cheers!
Rajat

[turbo_v12]

Example:- The RD one day blew the oil seal. The right side cylinder was was literally getting choked with engine oil.

Spot on ScraySkullz... But that is not because of a weak Auto Escorts TCi kit. It is mainly because when the crank oil seal gets old, it cracks and lets the engine oil flow into the right cylinder causing the plug to foul.

And I feel (could be mistaken) that waste sparks also lead to overheating of the engine and might cause problems....

Great bike Bikram. Lovely silencers... I am uploading a pic of my bike too... See the similarity and the difference.

[MileCruncher]

Just saw this while surfing the net. Thought many people in this thread might be interested
Yamaha to sell spare parts for RX100 and RD350 | Indiaon2wheels, India's first online motorcycle magazine

[ScarySkulls]

Originally Posted by turbo_v12

Spot on ScraySkullz... But that is not because of a weak Auto Escorts TCi kit. It is mainly because when the crank oil seal gets old, it cracks and lets the engine oil flow into the right cylinder causing the plug to foul.

That's correct.
That's why you don't see me mention any sort of relationship b/w the Escorts kit and the seal.

Nice bike, By the way.