Bajaj beats Honda Japan in Tech ?

sandeepmdas · 16th August 2005, 11:13

Spark plugs ignite rivalry

http://in.rediff.com/money/2005/aug/13bajaj.htm

India's two-wheeler industry, having thrived for years on technology from the Far East - primarily Japan and South Korea - may be on the verge of returning the favour, at least to an extent.

Japan's automotive giant Honda Motor Company has expressed an intention to use two spark plugs in its motorcycles in the 100-125 cc class as a method of reducing friction in the engine.

"Honda is developing the world's top-level low-friction engine for the 100cc to 125cc class - the largest volume segment in the world. The low-friction engine achieves improved combustion efficiency by introducing two spark plugs while friction is reduced significantly. This new innovation improves fuel economy by 13 per cent," Honda's president and CEO Takeo Fukui had said in his 2005 mid-year speech recently.

The statement has found an echo in the cheers arising out of the research and development wing of Bajaj Auto, which has a technology tie-up with Honda's rival Kawasaki and claims to be the first to use two spark plugs in motorcycle engines to increase power and fuel efficiency.

When contacted, a Bajaj Auto spokesperson claimed that the twin spark plug system was introduced by Bajaj over a year back with the launch of the Pulsar DTSi and the company had applied for a patent for this technology both in India and major overseas markets.

Whether or not Honda needs to consult Bajaj on this technology and have an arrangement is likely to become clear once the technology is adopted.

An e-mail, seeking to clarify this, to Tetsuya Ikeda, manager, PR division, at Honda Motors' head office, remains unanswered.

Honda intends to apply the twin spark plug technology, along with a variable cylinder management system for motorcycles that apparently improve fuel economy by 30 per cent, to mass-market products and then expand the number of models equipped with these technologies in order to improve the environment performance of motorcycles.

ananthkamath · 16th August 2005, 14:06

Bajaj may be the first to put this into mass-production, but it is definitely not the first to test the concept. Even a low-key company like Ideal Jawa had tried this out in the 80s on their two-stroke engines (I have a pic of this twin-spark Yezdi head stashed somewhere).....Scores of SAE papers have been written on combustion characteristics of twin-spark engines...BE/BTech-level projects have been done on this...

My point is, a company of Honda's stature would definitely have tried this on small-capacity engines before, and didnt put it into production for one or all of these reasons:

1) Cost vs. Complexity didnt work out in its favour

2) No significant change was seen in the engine's characteristics

3) There was a significant change when the plugs fired in staggered pattern (not together) but the system was too complex to use in a small-capacity engine.

Bajaj is very good at putting small improvements like this to use in marketing their products...Look at their new twin-spring shock on the Discover and CT100, and you will know what I'm talking about.

Ananth

merve_extreme · 16th August 2005, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ananthkamath

Bajaj may be the first to put this into mass-production, but it is definitely not the first to test the concept. Even a low-key company like Ideal Jawa had tried this out in the 80s on their two-stroke engines (I have a pic of this twin-spark Yezdi head stashed somewhere).....Scores of SAE papers have been written on combustion characteristics of twin-spark engines...BE/BTech-level projects have been done on this...

My point is, a company of Honda's stature would definitely have tried this on small-capacity engines before, and didnt put it into production for one or all of these reasons:

1) Cost vs. Complexity didnt work out in its favour

2) No significant change was seen in the engine's characteristics

3) There was a significant change when the plugs fired in staggered pattern (not together) but the system was too complex to use in a small-capacity engine.

Bajaj is very good at putting small improvements like this to use in marketing their products...Look at their new twin-spring shock on the Discover and CT100, and you will know what I'm talking about.

Ananth

bajaj may not be the first one to try this tech but is the first one to implement it on motocycle engines.it has been applied on car engines long ago.

but people are not ready to belive that Honda is now going to use technology first implemented by bajaj.(not reffering to anant).

cowboy45 · 7th May 2006, 07:21

This thread seems useless. Everyone knows whos better.

Zappo · 8th May 2006, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboy45

This thread seems useless. Everyone knows whos better.

And that will be who cowboy?

greatmana2000 · 8th May 2006, 18:43

ducati has twin sparks ... i thought so ..hmmmm

cowiee · 8th May 2006, 20:42

if i am not wrong i think the classic car manufactures wockswagon were the first to use 2 spark plugs

rohithdr · 8th May 2006, 22:26

Even BMW used twin spark plugs in their bikes before Pulsar started using it.

16th August 2005, 11:13	#1
sandeepmdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Varkala Posts: 1,536 Thanked: 2,489 Times	Bajaj beats Honda Japan in Tech ? Spark plugs ignite rivalry http://in.rediff.com/money/2005/aug/13bajaj.htm India's two-wheeler industry, having thrived for years on technology from the Far East - primarily Japan and South Korea - may be on the verge of returning the favour, at least to an extent. Japan's automotive giant Honda Motor Company has expressed an intention to use two spark plugs in its motorcycles in the 100-125 cc class as a method of reducing friction in the engine. "Honda is developing the world's top-level low-friction engine for the 100cc to 125cc class - the largest volume segment in the world. The low-friction engine achieves improved combustion efficiency by introducing two spark plugs while friction is reduced significantly. This new innovation improves fuel economy by 13 per cent," Honda's president and CEO Takeo Fukui had said in his 2005 mid-year speech recently. The statement has found an echo in the cheers arising out of the research and development wing of Bajaj Auto, which has a technology tie-up with Honda's rival Kawasaki and claims to be the first to use two spark plugs in motorcycle engines to increase power and fuel efficiency. When contacted, a Bajaj Auto spokesperson claimed that the twin spark plug system was introduced by Bajaj over a year back with the launch of the Pulsar DTSi and the company had applied for a patent for this technology both in India and major overseas markets. Whether or not Honda needs to consult Bajaj on this technology and have an arrangement is likely to become clear once the technology is adopted. An e-mail, seeking to clarify this, to Tetsuya Ikeda, manager, PR division, at Honda Motors' head office, remains unanswered. Honda intends to apply the twin spark plug technology, along with a variable cylinder management system for motorcycles that apparently improve fuel economy by 30 per cent, to mass-market products and then expand the number of models equipped with these technologies in order to improve the environment performance of motorcycles. Last edited by sandeepmdas : 16th August 2005 at 11:15.
	() Thanks

16th August 2005, 14:06	#2
ananthkamath Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mangalore Posts: 1,209 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	Bajaj may be the first to put this into mass-production, but it is definitely not the first to test the concept. Even a low-key company like Ideal Jawa had tried this out in the 80s on their two-stroke engines (I have a pic of this twin-spark Yezdi head stashed somewhere).....Scores of SAE papers have been written on combustion characteristics of twin-spark engines...BE/BTech-level projects have been done on this... My point is, a company of Honda's stature would definitely have tried this on small-capacity engines before, and didnt put it into production for one or all of these reasons: 1) Cost vs. Complexity didnt work out in its favour 2) No significant change was seen in the engine's characteristics 3) There was a significant change when the plugs fired in staggered pattern (not together) but the system was too complex to use in a small-capacity engine. Bajaj is very good at putting small improvements like this to use in marketing their products...Look at their new twin-spring shock on the Discover and CT100, and you will know what I'm talking about. Ananth
	() Thanks

7th May 2006, 07:21	#4
cowboy45 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: NOIDA Posts: 70 Thanked: 29 Times	This thread seems useless. Everyone knows whos better.
	() Thanks

8th May 2006, 18:43	#6
greatmana2000 BANNED Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: chennai Posts: 703 Thanked: 58 Times	ducati has twin sparks ... i thought so ..hmmmm
	() Thanks

8th May 2006, 20:42	#7
cowiee BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: bangalore Posts: 67 Thanked: 0 Times	if i am not wrong i think the classic car manufactures wockswagon were the first to use 2 spark plugs
	() Thanks

8th May 2006, 22:26	#8
rohithdr BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 104 Thanked: 0 Times	Even BMW used twin spark plugs in their bikes before Pulsar started using it.
	() Thanks