[lynx]

Hi all!

This is for my friend graduating from P180 to a basic superbike.

He is looking for a full-faired 250 to 400 cc bikes. I guess the options are:

Honda CBR 250
Honda CBR 400
Kawasaki Ninja ZZR 250
Kawasaki Ninja ZZR 400

Now, how much will each of these bikes cost NEW and USED?

Is there any sense in choosing 400 cc Bikes (60 and 55 bhp) over the 250 cc (40 bhp each), considering this will be his main bike, and will be used for both city and highway riding. Would it make sense to go past 100 kmph in 3rd gear and always having to ride in 2nd gear (40-80)?

And, what are the mileage like in these 2?

Also, I hear that Ninja's parts are expensive? Is that true? In India? How about their availability?

I see that a new ninja 250 costs $3000 in US. If bought new, will that come around Rs.3 lakhs with import duties, shipping, insurance, registration and all stuff?

And, not to mention, a nicer sound is a BIG plus. I guess the 250s make better sound than 400?

Can you tell me what are the acceleration figures like for 250 and 400 bikes mentioned above?

Thanks in advance.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by lynx

And, not to mention, a nicer sound is a BIG plus. I guess the 250s make better sound than 400?

If you are looking for the typical superbike sound, then go for the 400s, I believe the 250 is a parallel twin and the 400s are inline 4s. The 400s rev like crazy.......14000 rpm and the sound is really intoxicating.

[manson]

i guess rtech would be best to advice you on this one . . . . .

manson.

[revtech]

Originally Posted by manson

i guess rtech would be best to advice you on this one . . . . .

manson.

he will be able to give you the best advise.

Originally Posted by Mpower

The 400s rev like crazy.......14000 rpm and the sound is really intoxicating.

yeah the sound of rtechs bike is wild even when hes not reving it a lot.you just have to hear it to be in heaven.


Rev

[manson]

Originally Posted by revtech

yeah the sound of rtechs bike is wild even when hes not reving it a lot.you just have to hear it to be in heaven.


Rev

well rtech's bike is totally stock so there can't be much sound when he's not revving much.
the reason that the stock 250 and 400 cc bikes are known to be more noisy is because you have to revv them harder to get to high speeds as compared to the 600 and litre cousins.

manson.

[Rtech]

Is there any sense in choosing 400 cc Bikes (60 and 55 bhp) over the 250 cc (40 bhp each),

There is a big difference. Although on paper it seem's like not much, the way the power is delivered is totally different. On a 250 inline-4, you are not making any power unless you are over atleast 11,000rpm.

The best way to put it is to understand that the difference in a 250 & 400cc bike is like the difference between a 400 & 600cc bike.

considering this will be his main bike, and will be used for both city and highway riding.

More of a reason why he should get a higher displacement big. Makes for more relaxed riding in and out of the city.

Would it make sense to go past 100 kmph in 3rd gear and always having to ride in 2nd gear (40-80)?

huh?? The maximum speed attainable in a gear does not mean a person has to hold onto that gear till he reaches that speed. e.g. if the bike tops out at 90kmph in 1st, it doesn't mean that the rider can only ride in 1st gear in the city as his speed is always below 90kmph!!!

And, what are the mileage like in these 2?

I get about 13-18kmpl in the city with hard riding most of the time. It would be about the same whether it's a 250 or a 600cc bike.

Also, I hear that Ninja's parts are expensive? Is that true? In India? How about their availability?

All parts a expensive if you compare them to prices of our Indian econobike parts. And as Kwackers are less common, it is harder to get their parts. The key here is to buy a bike without problems to begin with. The consumables - oil/air filters, brake pads etc. are common parts between most bikes, so that's never a problem to find.

I see that a new ninja 250 costs $3000 in US. If bought new, will that come around Rs.3 lakhs with import duties, shipping, insurance, registration and all stuff?

theoraically yes. But as we all know, it all depends on the mood of the customs officer!! BTW, the Ninja 250 is a twin cylinder bike.

And, not to mention, a nicer sound is a BIG plus. I guess the 250s make better sound than 400?

nah. Another common myth. Yes, the 250's revv upto 18,000rpm, so the high revving noise is different, but upto sane revvs, they all sound similar really, with sutle differences between the different makes.

To conclude, if you are looking at a used bike here, you would be hard pressed to find a 250cc bike which has not had major work done on its engine. 400's are available easily and you have a bigger choice and not priced much higher, so it makes sense to get a 400. And ofcourse there is the difference in power between the 2.

[khaadu75]

Rt, Hi, so how is your bike doing ?? Did it get spared by the floods .. ? Could you tell me as to how much did the bike cost u or rather a rough idea as to how much wud a second hand 400cc cost ? This is not for me b ut a friend whos crazy about bikes and wants to upgrade from his Pulsar 180 after his trip next week to Leh. Also where is a gud place to look for these bikes ...

cheers

[lynx]

Thanks a lot Rptech. That was indeed helpful.

I think it was indeed true. I found only 1 ninja 250 here (2003 model 2.75 quoted). I hear it handles great compared to the kawi 400 (mainly the ZZR400 or GPX400. ZXR400 seems hard to find.) In online forums, they say that CBR250RR and ZZR250 or Ninja 250 handles much much better than ZZR400. Is this true?

I guess you own a ZZR400. How good is it as regards handling? I suppose you had ridden the ninja 250 and cbr250rr. I also hear that the cbr400rr handles much better than the zzr400. What do you say?

Thanks for any input.

P.S.: Yeah I knew ninja 250 had parallel twin, but STILL i hear it makes some sexy sounds at > 8K RPM upto 14K redline.

And, one zzr400 is available for 1.5 lakhs. 97 or 98 model.

[Rtech]

rough idea as to how much wud a second hand 400cc cost ?

Hard to say as the Indian grey bike market is anything but predictable. It all depends on who/where you buy it from, what condition it is in, how cleant he paperwork is and most importantly, how badly the owner wants to sell it!!

Lynx, to answer your questions on the handling of the ZZR, well, you cannot compare it with the CBR250/400RR. Those bikes are tiny, light and are great handlers. The ZZR is a sport touring 600cc chassis, so ofcourse it will not handle like a repli-racer.

When I was looking for a bike, I too had my eyes fixed on a 400RR. However, after my first ride on one, I dropped that idea. If you are built small, then it should be OK, but for the, ahem, larger one's, you end up walking away funny after a ride!!

The ZZR on the other hand fits me perfectly. I was a bit worried about using it everyday in our traffic, but one ride put my mind at ease. As with any bike, once moving, the weight just dissappears. I squeeze the Zed into the same gaps as I do on my Pulsar. And it's just so much more comfortable than the RR's, especially over longer distances.

From the others, the only one's I've ridden are the EX500 and ofcourse the Comet! The EX is a great handling bike with decent power. But, at the end of the day it is to the western world what the Hero Honda Splendor is to our world - another econobike.

And, one zzr400 is available for 1.5 lakhs. 97 or 98 model.

Great. So what are you waiting for?

I've heard a lot of these "deals" floating around. Everyone will say I know of a friends' friend who is selling a bike for X amount. But when you try and get in touch with those people, the bike is either "just sold" or the guy has "changed his mind". So good luck to you

And remember, if it seem's too good to be true, it probably is.

[lynx]

Thanks Rtech,

So, you mean to say that where RRs were tiny and easy to handle like the EX500 (or ninja 250), the ZZRs were equally EASY to CONTROL? This is very important for a newbie to sportbiking i guess.
If it is forgiving in control like the ninja 250 and RRs, it would be great.

And, how good is the sound of your zzr400 compared to high-rev of ninja 250 or 250rr, and the parallel ex500, and the inline 4 400rr?

Does it make a beautiful sport-bike tone at low revs as well? Cause, unlike the ninja 250, we won't be riding the zzr at high revs..

Your thoughts?

[Rtech]

So, you mean to say that where RRs were tiny and easy to handle like the EX500 (or ninja 250), the ZZRs were equally EASY to CONTROL? This is very important for a newbie to sportbiking i guess.
If it is forgiving in control like the ninja 250 and RRs, it would be great.

If anything, the ZZR is MORE forgiving that the RR's. As i mentioned, it's sports tourer, and it's handling is extremely predictable. However, if your friend is not very big/tall, he may have problems with the ZZR due to its size and weight. See what suits him best.

And, how good is the sound of your zzr400 compared to high-rev of ninja 250 or 250rr, and the parallel ex500, and the inline 4 400rr?

I'll tell you what. Close your eye's and listen to all the inline fours. Then if can spot the difference between a 250 or 400 or 600, I'll buy you a beer! A twin gives a coompletly different sound - more relaxed, lower revving and not very exciting.

From the looks of your questions, it seem's your friend simply wants a bike to cruise around town with and make a noise. So it really wouldn't make a difference as to what he buys, just get a good end can and they all make a great noise.

[lynx]

Rtech,

You mean the CBR250RR will produce as good a sound as your ZZR400?

Also, my friend is like 60kgs and 5 feet 7 inches tall. Now, which is better suited? CBR250RR? Or ZZR400 still?

I thought the 250s will give better mileage than 400s...

But then, he likes to ride the bike at high revs always...even i like the sound of pulsar at high-revs...

Waiting for your reply,
Stan.

P.S.: In one post, you had mentioned that you can get a TWIN CYLINDER BIKE (CB400, etc.) for Rs.50 to 70 K. Can you please mention all the bikes that come under this category and ARE available in india. I am also interested in superbikes, but I don't have the doe... Thanks.

[dipen]

Originally Posted by lynx

Rtech,

P.S.: In one post, you had mentioned that you can get a TWIN CYLINDER BIKE (CB400, etc.) for Rs.50 to 70 K. Can you please mention all the bikes that come under this category and ARE available in india. I am also interested in superbikes, but I don't have the doe... Thanks.

If clean , one for me too !!!

[Rtech]

You can find CB400's all over the place. Those bikes last forever if taken care of. CB250's are a bit underpowered, but you could get some decent deals on those too.

You just need to ask around a bit, as the regular dealers don't sell these old bikes, so you need to find a private owner who wants to sell it.

[lynx]

Thanks.

Regarding the other questions?

1). P.S.: In one post, you had mentioned that you can get a TWIN CYLINDER BIKE (CB400, etc.) for Rs.50 to 70 K. Can you please mention all the bikes that come under this category and ARE available in india. I am also interested in superbikes, but I don't have the doe... Thanks.

2). 250s will give better mileage than 400s?

3). the CBR250RR will produce as good a sound as your ZZR400?

4). 60kgs and 5 feet 7 inches tall. Now, which is better suited? CBR250RR? Or ZZR400 still?

Sorry for bothering you so much.

Stan.