[Gansan]

Originally Posted by raghu.t.k

The justification given was that these are sealed maintenace free, and hence more costlier than Exide..

BTW any one in India heard of this battery and any idea how long they stay?

Never heard of this brand. But Amaron sells these type of batteries (they are called SMF - Sealed Maintenance Free - batteries in India) and I have been using it in my bike for the past six years. Life is ~ 4.5 years, but then my bike draws battery power only for the horn and indicators. No self start.

[raghu.t.k]

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

I've never heard of them but that shouldn't be too surprising because I live in the U.S.A.

...

Here's hoping that their battery lives up to the reputation the sealed batteries in America have. If it does the 3k price will be well worth the money.

Originally Posted by Gansan

Never heard of this brand. But Amaron sells these type of batteries (they are called SMF - Sealed Maintenance Free - batteries in India) and I have been using it in my bike for the past six years. Life is ~ 4.5 years, but then my bike draws battery power only for the horn and indicators. No self start.

Even I have not heard about it until I was in the shop. I dont mind paying well for a good product like Amaron. It was more a frustated purchase, since it was on the road around 30kms away from home (a couple of kms from my office) and the standard battery from exide was not anywhere in the locality. I wanted to take the bike back home since I would not be in the city for a week.

I dont mind trying new products, but it should not be costlier than the regular battery. For some reason the 14 AH battery required for the bike is manufactured only Exide( apart from unknown brands), which is a bit of a surprise?

If the battery is critical to the running of the bike, should the charging circuit be designed to charge it at all RPMs and with all standard equipments / accessories switched on? The early demise could have been due to the fact that I mostly ride the bike, closer home within a radius of 5-7 kms.

[preetamkabra]

Hello All,

I may be asking a repetitive question, please don't mind. Can somebody staying in Mumbai / Navi Mumbai area provide me information about buying and fitting the GIVI box. I am not able to procure it. There are few who had one, but they say that the bracket (fitting assembly) is not available, hence they are no more selling it.
Your help will be highly appreciated.

[ArizonaJim]

Originally Posted by raghu.t.k

If the battery is critical to the running of the bike, should the charging circuit be designed to charge it at all RPMs and with all standard equipments / accessories switched on? The early demise could have been due to the fact that I mostly ride the bike, closer home within a radius of 5-7 kms.

Although the charging system on the Royal Enfield is quite capable of recharging the battery with all of the lights turned on, the engine must be running quite a bit above its idle speed.

At an idle, the engine's alternator will not provide enough power to offset the amount used by the engine and the motorcycles lights. That results in further depleting the battery's power.

I know there is a tendency for people in India to ride their motorcycles using the highest gear possible to conserve fuel but this can and will result in a run down battery.
If the battery is constantly in a run down condition it will damage the internals and once this happens the battery will refuse to hold its charge making replacement the only option.

As a general guide if you want the battery to recharge, I would say if your riding at a speed of 30 kmph you should not be in a gear higher than 3rd. 2nd would be better.
For a speed of 40 kmph 3rd should be fine.
At 50 kmph 4th gear can be used but 5th gear shouldn't be used until a speed of at least 60 kmph is reached.

These speeds and gear selections assume the motorcycle has been thru its initial break in. If it has, running the engine at increased speeds will not damage it and will go a long way towards maintaining the battery at its full charge.

Also to be considered is purchasing a small battery charger to recharge the battery over night.
A good brand is called "Battery Tender". It has circuits that detect the condition of the battery and supply only the power needed.
Unlike some other higher powered chargers it will not over charge the battery.

Here is a link to this type of charger

http://www.indiamart.com/performance...arger-euro-400

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

Although the charging system on the Royal Enfield is quite capable of recharging the battery with all of the lights turned on, the engine must be running quite a bit above its idle speed.

At an idle, the engine's alternator will not provide enough power to offset the amount used by the engine and the motorcycles lights. That results in further depleting the battery's power.

I know there is a tendency for people in India to ride their motorcycles using the highest gear possible to conserve fuel but this can and will result in a run down battery.

I thought the battery getting charged only above a particular RPM existed only with Magnetos (at that time even cars had this problem) and not with Alternators?

May be bikes still come with magnetos?

[raghu.t.k]

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

Although the charging system on the Royal Enfield is quite capable of recharging the battery with all of the lights turned on, the engine must be running quite a bit above its idle speed.

At an idle, the engine's alternator will not provide enough power to offset the amount used by the engine and the motorcycles lights. That results in further depleting the battery's power.
.....

Thanks, @ArizonaJim . Yes you are right, I normally ride it at 40 - 50 in the 4th gear, more from a smoothness perspective than fuel economy. And most are short rides.

Need to look at alternate chargers to keep the battery in good condition. I wasnt aware that the bike would not run without a battery. My earlier with Yamaha RXZ, even without the battery it would run, but the light and horn wouldnt work well. Which mean I could limp back home carefully, rather than getting stranded.

[ArizonaJim]

Originally Posted by Gansan

May be bikes still come with magnetos?

Interesting that you would mention that and the answer is YES. Many motorcycles including the Royal Enfield are actually using a magneto although it produces alternating current.

The alternator used in cars has both a electromagnetic coil to produce the magnetic field and a power producing coil which rotates in the magnetic field. The power produced is AC which is rectified to DC, usually within the unit. This allows a direct hookup to the cars electrical system.

Either the fixed stater or the rotating armature may be the electromagnetic field coil but in either case, brushes and slip rings to the armature are needed to ether power it or to extract power from it.

This has the advantage of being able to increase the magnetic fields power so that even at an engine idle speed the unit will produce more than enough power to run all of the electrics plus it can recharge the battery.
The field power may also be decreased so that even at high RPM's the output of the unit will be reduced to keep it from burning out the lights or overcharging the battery.
A voltage sensing unit constantly measures the power output and the electrical needs and adjusts the field coils power as required.


Most motorcycles on the other hand use a permanent magnet field with a fixed strength.

By making the crankshaft mounted rotor the permanent magnet, the field coil may be stationary which eliminates the need for electrical brushes and slip rings and greatly simplifies the system.

The electrical power produced is AC (alternating current) which is converted to the DC (direct current) needed by our battery, lights and computer (where fitted) by a rectifier.
The system also uses a voltage regulator to control the maximum power output usually sending the excess power to the ground side of the system.

Although the motorcycles system is simple and light weight, it is speed dependent.
At low engine speeds, it produces very little power. At high engine speeds it is totally up to the task needed.

Although many people would refer to this system as a Magneto many others call it an alternator because, like the ones used in automobiles, it produces alternating current.

[Spark]

My Humble Greetings to "All Bulleteers " on the Forum!!

Well I think this infatuation with Classic EFI is building up ever since I took the TD about 2 weeks back - Once again(Earlier it was TB 350 in 2004 which was sold off long time back).
That Time I had resolved to not to buy any RE again as Bullets of that era were a bit shady on reliability and maintenance front.

Coming back to present, I was impressed with power delivery and overall improvements that have gone into Classic series with introduction of UCE block. I am still in the process of deciding if its going to be RE again and if
at all EFI is being perceived to turn out a reliable and agile machine in long term.

Though I have hushed up through the thread very fast as it was not possible to go through each reply of such a mammoth thread, Can I please request experts to summaries any prominent Issue in UCE EFI that still persist after so many personal workarounds and improvements made by RE shared here????

Also are there any major:
Improvements/ Colours/ Features that are expected to be introduced in next 6 months???
I would be happy to wait 6 months if that means any improvement for bikes to come!

Last but not the least - which is a domain of RE Experts we have amongst us - If all the fuss is about absense of O2 on the EFI - Is it possible to put is back as aftermarket fitment?
Is it technically feasible within a reasonable cost?
OR
All wrinkles have been taken care by Remapping or using PowerTronics??

Have always receive very valuable and pointed suggestions from the Group.
Hope some good soul would come to rescue this time as well

Thanks in Advance

Keep Thumping
Spark.

[ArizonaJim]

I cannot speak for the owners in India but the EFI on my 2011, 500cc Royal Enfield has proven to be totally reliable after 3 1/2 years of riding over 16,500 miles (26,612 km).

At about 10,000 miles (16,000 km) the throttle response was getting a little balky but adding some Techron fuel injector cleaner to a tank of fuel solved that. (Other brands of fuel injection cleaner will also work. Things like Diesel fuel will not.)

Following the initial release of the fuel injected engines there were some mapping issues with the Indian models. As you know, Royal Enfield responded by providing new computer maps for the controller at no cost.
I haven't heard of any problems in India since this problem was addressed.

The O2 sensor is installed on the export models only.
Although one could modify the Indian models exhaust pipe to accept the O2 sensor it would do little good because the computer in these motorcycles is not made to process the sensors readings.
Even if it were, there is little to be gained by adding the sensor.
It's one duty is to reduce the exhaust emissions to meet the restrictive requirements of the governments outside India.
It does not enhance power, fuel economy, throttle response or anything beyond emissions.
If protecting the environment in India is a major issue adding the O2 sensor and the computer that is needed to utilize the sensors output is worth the trouble of installing it I'm sorry to say the parts are not available.

Adding a PowerTronics or PowerCommander controler to the existing ECU will allow the owner to frinkle with the way the motorcycle ECU processes the sensor data.
This can be good or bad depending on ones knowledge.

Personally, I seriously doubt that many individuals can improve on the company maps.
They have spent tens of thousands of hours developing and testing their maps with the goal of producing a combinitation of the most powerful, fuel efficient and reliable unit that will perform well at all altitudes and temperature ranges.

While it may be possible to revise the map to produce a little more power it would be at the cost of needing more fuel. Conversely, better fuel economy may be possible but at the cost of less power.
As for reliability, as I said, Royal Enfield and Keihin have spent tens of thousands of hours developing and testing the fuel injection controller and maps to provide a unit that is 99.9 percent bullet proof. (Pun intended).

[Spark]

Hello ArizonaJim,
Many thanks for sharing your brilliant knowledge about the machine and suggestions. I really appreciate your will to and passion to help out fellow men. Thanks Again!

So absence of O2 isin't that Big of an Issue for bike itself.
I agree that Re-mapped ECUs would be the best available as Enfield themselves only
have access to most number of feedbacks and budget to invest in research
and would want best for their bikes.

So can we safely say that All Rich/lean running Issues on the bike are resolved?
OR
Is there a way to keep a check on that aspect? Other than pulling out the Plugs each time.

And Guys I just read that:
RE HAS ANNOUNCHED 20,000km/2 YEARS WARRANTY ON ALL OF THERE FLEET WHICH GETS SOLD STARTING 2015.

That's a welcome move, ANYONE ELSE KNOW ANYMORE ABOUT ANTICIPATED MODIFICATIONS TO COME IN 6 MONTHS TIME?

Best Regards
Spark

[MCRPM]

Folks...

From all your valuable experiences..

1) As a first step towards 'Mods' on my C500 would it be OK to change the air filter (to a stock replacement one) along with a good free flow exhaust (like RRP exhaust) ? -- Is it must to go for a custom ECU like the RD powertronics ?

2) Between BMC and K&N air filters are there any obvious recommendations ?

What I am looking for - Smoother power deliver, Improved low end would be nice.. no top end ripping stuff...

Cheers
Mithun

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by ArizonaJim

Personally, I seriously doubt that many individuals can improve on the company maps.
They have spent tens of thousands of hours developing and testing their maps with the goal of producing a combinitation of the most powerful, fuel efficient and reliable unit that will perform well at all altitudes and temperature ranges.

While it may be possible to revise the map to produce a little more power it would be at the cost of needing more fuel. Conversely, better fuel economy may be possible but at the cost of less power.
As for reliability, as I said, Royal Enfield and Keihin have spent tens of thousands of hours developing and testing the fuel injection controller and maps to provide a unit that is 99.9 percent bullet proof. (Pun intended).

First we might be giving the OE's a little too much credit here - tuning wouldn't be a billion-dollar industry if practically everything auto/bike makers do couldn't be improved on in some way.

Furthermore, let's define "improve" here as "provide a (in this case) map that makes the engine run more suitably for a particular owner's riding style, priorities, environment" - in that case, there are many, many "improvements" that can be made, and what that means will differ within broader categories (I want it to run well at 15,000ft... I want 2bhp more and don't mind losing a little FE... I want some more low-end and can do without any high-rpm gains... I want maximum power across the board and am not worried about overheating, because average temp where I live in Himachal Pradesh in the Spring/Autumn when I ride 50degrees F, not 130degrees F like summer in the Rajasthan deserts, where obviously a different map is going to work better... etc... etc....

To bolster that point, I suppose, as of some time last year, RE has come out with a new injector with a calibration screw, so that individual dealers can tweak the fuel mixture a bit for varying altitudes / conditions. Without an O2 sensor, that's about the best you can do.

Apart from a few spots in the Rockies, there is nothing that remotely compares to the altitudes that FI RE's were having trouble with in the Himalayas. And the systems as fitted on Indian bikes, German (Keihin) engineering notwithstanding, are NOT reliable - at least under certain Indian conditions, which is why most of the Manali tour operators have removed the FI systems and converted to carbs, as have a couple friends of mine. I'm not around Bulleteers all the time, but even then I'm personally acquainted with a number of day-ruining and pocket-robbing failures - in particular of the pump. Sales of the (recently introduced) carbed 500 std. have been great for a reason.

Thanks,
-Eric

[adnaps]

I have a fairly newbie query. Can someone clarify if the OE RE ECU can automatically accommodate free flow exhausts ? Else other than changing to carb, what are the alternatives to avoid damaging the engine /valves on a EFI engine (500CC) ?

[rki2007]

I am a regular visitor to the RE Brand store in Bangalore for something or the other reason. I just love going there.

Yesterday I visited the RE Brand showroom and checked out the RE Classic 500 and Bullet 500 for my friend who is looking to buy a RE machine.

I own a TBTS 350 and haven't ridden the 500CC much. I was just flattered and jaw dropping when I rode the CL 500 EFI. Man it is mind blowing, it is a locomotive engine . I felt like as if I can tow a truck to the CL 500, so much power. The seats were surprising comfortable than my TBTS 350 and I didn't feel many undulations on the road. It was very surprising to me, because I always had a thought that TBTS seats should be better in terms of ride comfort than the CL spring seats.

On the other hand, the Bullet 500 had the best comfy seats but not a great ride quality. The undulation of the roads were felt on my back. The power wasn't something that of CL 500. I think the Carburetor version is the reason. Had it been an EFI, I am sure that I would have paid an advance and booked the bike for myself. I really loved the black color which looks fantastic.

In between me and my friend both loved the CL 500.

[argchoff]

Originally Posted by rki2007

The seats were surprising comfortable than my TBTS 350 and I didn't feel many undulations on the road. It was very surprising to me, because I always had a thought that TBTS seats should be better in terms of ride comfort than the CL spring seats.

On the other hand, the Bullet 500 had the best comfy seats but not a great ride quality. The undulation of the roads were felt on my back.

I have used the CL500 for 3 years. The spring seat gets very uncomfortable within an hour of riding. Because the springs are at the rear of the seat, its the rear part of the seat that presses down over bumps which is bad for the lower back in the long run though one may not feel it.
Lastly the brakes are useless and so is the alternator, i have changed batteries already. Although strangely i like the bike, owning it has been nothing short of a headache