Karizma front brake trouble - need help troubleshooting

isodope · 1st April 2010, 09:14

Karizma front brake trouble - need help troubleshooting

My Karizma's front brake was fine for the first year of usage, then six months ago the lever began needing more pressure for it to work effectively. A service was due, so it was handed in and was rectified. The head mechanic claimed that it was because of rust in the lever hinges or cable, since I hose down the bike regularly.
I went immediately after the service for a 2200km round trip (one day 1100km, three days' stay, 1100km back.) Halfway on the return trip, the brake lever progressively got harder and harder to modulate, until it reached the old levels of force required to operate - old levels being those when the problem first surfaced. Obviously my washing the bike wasn't a problem, since I hadn't done that since the service.
I got the line bled and it worked fine for a while, then went back to being hard again. I’m not losing any fluid – I’ve been using it like that for the last month and a half and observing the level.
Have you heard of anyone else with this problem? It doesn’t seem to be a common problem on the Karizma.
I’d like your help diagnosing the problem, and any solutions will be welcome. Do ask any questions if you want to. I’ve given some additional information below.

11700km run in 1.5 years.
Mostly sane riding, with fast highway jaunts every now and again.
I use the front brake for most braking duties coupled with engine braking.
Haven’t messed with the brake or front tyre in any way at all. They’re stock.

the_trooper · 1st April 2010, 11:18

Mine brake lever feel stays hard most of the time.

I ve learnt to live with it and manage to lock in when I need to.

I think my master cylinder needs replacement. I am running a new rotor and pads.

BuBooMan · 8th April 2010, 12:03

I had a similar issue a while bike on my '03 ZMA. Take it to a good mechanic. Tell him to overhaul the whole system. Replace oil and pads. It is probably a plunger malfunction. Should be easy to fix.

isodope · 8th April 2010, 14:42

System was overhauled twice, once at the HH service center, a second time by someone who's had training to service everything upto a YZF-R1. Both times problem went away, but returned. I need a new master cylinder, apparently - HH is quoting about Rs 6500 for the part which isn't in stock, and they cannot predict when it'll arrive, either.
I'm going to try other alternatives.

BuBooMan · 8th April 2010, 16:47

OOOhhh sorry to hear that buddy. 6500??? Are you sure? Did you ask how much it would cost to replace the whole system including the rotor?

isodope · 8th April 2010, 19:02

After getting that heart attack, I wasn't in the mood for a bigger one, so I kept my trap shut. I'm thinking of getting hold of HH service manuals and comparing parts from other bikes - I've heard those are cheaper, despite being the same.
Else if I'm going to change the entire system, I'd rather look at mating the braided steel line from the P220 to the petal discs from an Apache. Only thing that's freaking me out is that it's the brakes, you know? I don't want to find out that my home remedy doesn't really work at 100kph!

the_trooper · 8th April 2010, 23:07

the original model ZMAs came with master cylinders that cost about Rs.5000+ now.

The later models share master cylinders with CBZXtreme and Hunk and cost lesser, about Rs.1200 or so. Even if you get a different master cylinder, don't change the rotor.

1st April 2010, 09:14	#1
isodope BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 144 Thanked: 85 Times	Karizma front brake trouble - need help troubleshooting Karizma front brake trouble - need help troubleshooting My Karizma's front brake was fine for the first year of usage, then six months ago the lever began needing more pressure for it to work effectively. A service was due, so it was handed in and was rectified. The head mechanic claimed that it was because of rust in the lever hinges or cable, since I hose down the bike regularly. I went immediately after the service for a 2200km round trip (one day 1100km, three days' stay, 1100km back.) Halfway on the return trip, the brake lever progressively got harder and harder to modulate, until it reached the old levels of force required to operate - old levels being those when the problem first surfaced. Obviously my washing the bike wasn't a problem, since I hadn't done that since the service. I got the line bled and it worked fine for a while, then went back to being hard again. I’m not losing any fluid – I’ve been using it like that for the last month and a half and observing the level. Have you heard of anyone else with this problem? It doesn’t seem to be a common problem on the Karizma. I’d like your help diagnosing the problem, and any solutions will be welcome. Do ask any questions if you want to. I’ve given some additional information below. 11700km run in 1.5 years. Mostly sane riding, with fast highway jaunts every now and again. I use the front brake for most braking duties coupled with engine braking. Haven’t messed with the brake or front tyre in any way at all. They’re stock.
	() Thanks

1st April 2010, 11:18	#2
the_trooper BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Chn Posts: 215 Thanked: 102 Times View My Garage	Mine brake lever feel stays hard most of the time. I ve learnt to live with it and manage to lock in when I need to. I think my master cylinder needs replacement. I am running a new rotor and pads.
	() Thanks

8th April 2010, 12:03	#3
BuBooMan BHPian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pune Posts: 72 Thanked: 28 Times	I had a similar issue a while bike on my '03 ZMA. Take it to a good mechanic. Tell him to overhaul the whole system. Replace oil and pads. It is probably a plunger malfunction. Should be easy to fix.
	() Thanks

8th April 2010, 14:42	#4
isodope BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 144 Thanked: 85 Times	System was overhauled twice, once at the HH service center, a second time by someone who's had training to service everything upto a YZF-R1. Both times problem went away, but returned. I need a new master cylinder, apparently - HH is quoting about Rs 6500 for the part which isn't in stock, and they cannot predict when it'll arrive, either. I'm going to try other alternatives.
	() Thanks

8th April 2010, 16:47	#5
BuBooMan BHPian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pune Posts: 72 Thanked: 28 Times	OOOhhh sorry to hear that buddy. 6500??? Are you sure? Did you ask how much it would cost to replace the whole system including the rotor?
	() Thanks

8th April 2010, 19:02	#6
isodope BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 144 Thanked: 85 Times	After getting that heart attack, I wasn't in the mood for a bigger one, so I kept my trap shut. I'm thinking of getting hold of HH service manuals and comparing parts from other bikes - I've heard those are cheaper, despite being the same. Else if I'm going to change the entire system, I'd rather look at mating the braided steel line from the P220 to the petal discs from an Apache. Only thing that's freaking me out is that it's the brakes, you know? I don't want to find out that my home remedy doesn't really work at 100kph!
	() Thanks

8th April 2010, 23:07	#7
the_trooper BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Chn Posts: 215 Thanked: 102 Times View My Garage	the original model ZMAs came with master cylinders that cost about Rs.5000+ now. The later models share master cylinders with CBZXtreme and Hunk and cost lesser, about Rs.1200 or so. Even if you get a different master cylinder, don't change the rotor.
	() Thanks