[kkg]

It seems honda messed my bike.


I went to Honda service station last thursday to get the chain set changed. It was first time in 49500kms that Chain set was changed. The mechanic told me that you must be riding your bike very carefully since the set lasted such long.

I also told them about the engine problem and had a word with the workshop manager. He told me to leave the bike on monday and they will clean the Engine head and look at the valves if necessary. I left the bike on monday with clearly mentioning that only the head related work is to be done, not to touch the engine.They agreed and took three days time.

Now today, as expected they called and quoted Rs 8000/- for full engine overhaul. I said no firmly and told them to repack the head and give my bike back. I called the manger, he told me the same thing, I asked him to only clean the head and repack it. I also asked if my bike will be in the same condition i gave it to them, To which he said " NO". . He said since all the packings are taken out it won't be possible to provide factory level fitting. Now i have told them to put new packings. He has told me collect the bike tomorrow. Now my concerns are:

1. How to access the damage done,if any. My bike was riding nicely when i gave it to them.

2. What if I see smoke or hear some unusual noise?

3. Even if the bike is alright tomorrow,what would happen in days to come. I suspect the engine to smoke now and drink oil which wasn't the case earlier.

4. Was it a mistake on my part to give them the bike when it was running well. I mean i should have waited for the problem to re occur and then approaching them.

5. How to know whether they have done any foul play?

I maintained my bike very well all these years with all regular services at Honda only and still believe that engine was healthy when i gave it to them last time. Now I regret it.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by kkg

It seems honda messed my bike.


I went to Honda service station last thursday to get the chain set changed. It was first time in 49500kms that Chain set was changed. The mechanic told me that you must be riding your bike very carefully since the set lasted such long.

I also told them about the engine problem and had a word with the workshop manager. He told me to leave the bike on monday and they will clean the Engine head and look at the valves if necessary. I left the bike on monday with clearly mentioning that only the head related work is to be done, not to touch the engine.They agreed and took three days time.

Now today, as expected they called and quoted Rs 8000/- for full engine overhaul. I said no firmly and told them to repack the head and give my bike back. I called the manger, he told me the same thing, I asked him to only clean the head and repack it. I also asked if my bike will be in the same condition i gave it to them, To which he said " NO". . He said since all the packings are taken out it won't be possible to provide factory level fitting. Now i have told them to put new packings. He has told me collect the bike tomorrow. Now my concerns are:

1. How to access the damage done,if any. My bike was riding nicely when i gave it to them.

2. What if I see smoke or hear some unusual noise?

3. Even if the bike is alright tomorrow,what would happen in days to come. I suspect the engine to smoke now and drink oil which wasn't the case earlier.

4. Was it a mistake on my part to give them the bike when it was running well. I mean i should have waited for the problem to re occur and then approaching them.

5. How to know whether they have done any foul play?

I maintained my bike very well all these years with all regular services at Honda only and still believe that engine was healthy when i gave it to them last time. Now I regret it.

I am wondering how could a Honda need a engine overhaul at under 50K kms. It is well said that Honda & HHs do not need overhauling well before a lacs on meter. Though I admit that I was facing the similar problems with my Splendor at 45K kms. I reckon there is more hype to which you & me have fallen prey to.
Thank god I did not fall prey another time & bought a Bajaj P150 instead. My bike had an engine job from Castrol Bike Zone recently (@ 58K kms, after all they say that Bajaj's life is around 60k Kms) for Rs.7000 (including credit-card transaction charges).

I fail to see the reason for such early wear of the engine (unlike my case where the bike has been roughly handled). Spurious fuel or regular services at the authorised centre are two probable causes.

With the problems that you have listed, it seems that your bike actually needs an engine job & it is better to go for the same. The quote seems fine, only savings grace (money) could be the condition of your bike's engine parts. If they are in good condition, probably you will save Rs.1000 or little more, but, yes you definitely need to go for the engine job.

Probably, you will again require the same after say 30K or 40K kms but you can still enjoy your bike after the initial run-in (after the engine drop). Regarding the mileage I reckon probably there could be 5-10% drop (5 not kmpl) & the bike will be as good as it was few thousand kms ago, read when you were more satisfied & riding fast on NCR roads.

My advise (repeat of what has been advised to me by my trustworthy bike mechanic) is - keep a tab on engine oil used & get it changed (in case of mineral one) after every 2.5k kms (irrespective of what the manufacturer claims).

Hope I have attended your questions. If you have more queries, please post in this thread, & I will reply to the best of my knowledge.

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by kkg

1) I also told them about the engine problem and had a word with the workshop manager. He told me to leave the bike on monday and they will clean the Engine head and look at the valves if necessary. I left the bike on monday with clearly mentioning that only the head related work is to be done, not to touch the engine.They agreed and took three days time.

2) Now today, as expected they called and quoted Rs 8000/- for full engine overhaul. I said no firmly and told them to repack the head and give my bike back. I called the manger, he told me the same thing, I asked him to only clean the head and repack it. I also asked if my bike will be in the same condition i gave it to them, To which he said " NO". . He said since all the packings are taken out it won't be possible to provide factory level fitting. Now i have told them to put new packings. He has told me collect the bike tomorrow. Now my concerns are:

1. How to access the damage done,if any. My bike was riding nicely when i gave it to them.

2. What if I see smoke or hear some unusual noise?

3. Even if the bike is alright tomorrow,what would happen in days to come. I suspect the engine to smoke now and drink oil which wasn't the case earlier.

4. Was it a mistake on my part to give them the bike when it was running well. I mean i should have waited for the problem to re occur and then approaching them.

5. How to know whether they have done any foul play?

I maintained my bike very well all these years with all regular services at Honda only and still believe that engine was healthy when i gave it to them last time. Now I regret it.

1) Chain set usually lasts for more than 50K kms. Atleast it did so in my Caliber. I have seen many bikes in college also that had more than 50K on odo on original chain set. By chain set I understand you are talking about sprockets.

2) Did you ask them to overhaul the engine ? If NO, then give clearly tell them that the job of overhaul was carried out without your consent. So you are not paying for the overhaul and you are getting the bike back.

3) Mistake on your part IMHO was that you gave them the bike for engine work. If at all you were to give bike for service, you should have properly planned it and get it written on job card that only head job was to be looked into. This would have made your case stronger. Next time whenever you are giving bike or car for service, give one clear instruction about the max limit of money you will spend. Tell them that any expense further than Rs. XXXX ( you budget ), the service center must call and confirm with you.

4) Right now talking to them firmly is the only option you have.

5) IIRC, ACI long term Unicorn had its head replaced without permission by Honda. This was mentioned in ACI long term review.

6) If you are planning to pay the quoted amount, make sure you get in written that an entire overhaul has been done. Also ask for 6 months warranty on the work they have carried out.

[kkg]

[

2) Did you ask them to overhaul the engine ? If NO, then give clearly tell them that the job of overhaul was carried out without your consent. So you are not paying for the overhaul and you are getting the bike back.

3) Mistake on your part IMHO was that you gave them the bike for engine work. If at all you were to give bike for service, you should have properly planned it and get it written on job card that only head job was to be looked into. This would have made your case stronger. Next time whenever you are giving bike or car for service, give one clear instruction about the max limit of money you will spend. Tell them that any expense further than Rs. XXXX ( you budget ), the service center must call and confirm with you.

They have yet to overhaul the engine. I got a call to confirm the same to which i said a firm NO. I specifically made them write " only head job" in the job card and conveyed same to the manager. So no issues there.The only concern is" is overhaul really needed??". To best of my knowledge, an overhaul is needed when:

1. the engine is running sluggish, lacking pick up and throttle response

2. there is white smoke emitting from the silencer

3. engine is consuming oil.

and as far as my bike is concerned, none of the above symptoms were there. Only twice stalling of engine and it needs an overhaul, I am yet to digest it.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by kkg

[
They have yet to overhaul the engine. I got a call to confirm the same to which i said a firm NO. I specifically made them write " only head job" in the job card and conveyed same to the manager. So no issues there.The only concern is" is overhaul really needed??". To best of my knowledge, an overhaul is needed when:

1. the engine is running sluggish, lacking pick up and throttle response

2. there is white smoke emitting from the silencer

3. engine is consuming oil.

and as far as my bike is concerned, none of the above symptoms were there. Only twice stalling of engine and it needs an overhaul, I am yet to digest it.

These 3 are, infact, the symptoms of engine requiring an overhaul. I had first experience of the same in case of another Splendor owned by my senior (also a CA) some 8 years ago. He explained me symptoms & the remedy, i.e. go for at least half engine or full engine work, with charges ranging from Rs.4000 to the your A.S.S. quote (Rs.8000-9000), depending upon the condition of bike's engine parts are.

Mu sincere suggestion is to go for the same rather than saving money now, only to cause more damage to the engine. If you go for the same, you would be in a position to enjoy you bike longer than now.

The service centres generally give a guarantee for certain number of kms & period (in my Pulsar's case it is 10000 kms & 6 months) for the overhaul work done by them. In your case, since it is the company A.S.S., they may give longer guarantee.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by kkg

The mechanic told me that you must be riding your bike very carefully since the set lasted such long.

Looks like a trap. I'm not sure how long should a chain & sprockets last, but I haven't changed my sprockets on RX for over 3 years & 50K+ kms. But I'm doing a wrong comparison between 2S & 4S. But this is just an FYI

Originally Posted by kkg

Now today, as expected they called and quoted Rs 8000/- for full engine overhaul.

Ok, what were the works being carried out? Does it include reboring the cylinder, changing the piston & rings & valves being adjusted?

Originally Posted by kkg

He said since all the packings are taken out it won't be possible to provide factory level fitting.

Well not sure what to say; it depends on what kind of work they've been carried out. So it is necessary to know what work they've done.

Originally Posted by kkg

Now i have told them to put new packings. He has told me collect the bike tomorrow.

I doubt the H.A.S.S will do this. Even if the cylinder head is opened up, its good to replace the gaskets with new ones. Having said that, how would they reuse the old cylinder gaskets leave along cylinder rebore job.

Originally Posted by kkg

1. How to access the damage done,if any. My bike was riding nicely when i gave it to them.

But I thought you'd mentioned about compression issue

Originally Posted by kkg

2. What if I see smoke or hear some unusual noise?

White smoke clearly indicates worn out rings, lost compression; Page 1 of this thread has more details on the discussion between me & Gosswamy.

Originally Posted by kkg

3. Even if the bike is alright tomorrow,what would happen in days to come. I suspect the engine to smoke now and drink oil which wasn't the case earlier.

No; don't jump to conclusions; wait for sometime & pls don't ride the motorcycle with these in mind. Just ride free.

Originally Posted by kkg

4. Was it a mistake on my part to give them the bike when it was running well. I mean i should have waited for the problem to re occur and then approaching them.

Sort of; my principle always is, don't touch it, if its working.

Originally Posted by kkg

5. How to know whether they have done any foul play?

Keep us posted on the updates after taking your motorcycle

Originally Posted by kkg

Now I regret it.

No, don't; just wait & see & most importantly, change your mindset.

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

1) Chain set usually lasts for more than 50K kms.

Yes, possible

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

6) If you are planning to pay the quoted amount, make sure you get in written that an entire overhaul has been done. Also ask for 6 months warranty on the work they have carried out.

+100000...; @KKG - Do ^^^ without fail; take whatever means for you to get their consent towards it. Before that, try to grab a copy of the jobsheet (I hope you would've got a copy too) that clearly states "cylinder head work". It could be of good use in future.

[Ajaybiz]

Your bike says you had a minor engine seizure thats why it stopped in between, which resulted in damaging the piston rings and may be cylinder walls as you ridden it further, and yes Honda guys are right you have to do complete rebuild, problem is you are in Delhi as here in Bangalore its quite easy job for us, we opens the engine check the cylinder walls for any damage, get the bore measuresd and if it requires get it rebored and put over size piston set and done till next time engine asks for rebuild, there you might not even have reboring machines which can give you accurate piston and cylinder wall cleareance.
Anyways ask for the quote and get it done.

[kkg]

My mind says you could be right however the heart wishes otherwise. As far as getting the rebore and putting oversize piston is concerned, i have burnt my fingers with it.

I had a HH passion prior to Unicorn which required a overhaul at 43000kms. I got it done at a local mechanic and the work was pathetic to say the least. I sold it after one month.

Next we had our Matiz's engine redone (ofcourse at local workshop) and the performance dipped drastically. Sold it again after few months and bought Spark.

Bottomline: No more engine overhauls. Go for the new machine straightaway, this time a New Unicorn Dazzler ( if it happens)

BTW, will collect the bike tomorrow and will the keep the progress (if any) posted.

[Ajaybiz]

Thats due to all local rebore crap machines the dont keep any clereance and advice to run in slowly, burning more oil and making clereance during run in period, as here we see improvement in power the more we go for over size pistons.

[kkg]

Got my bike today.It was in almost the same condition when I left it, apart from the oil stains all over the engine. Anyways, I was told that they just opened the head, inspected it and put it back.

The workshop manager told me that i can continue riding it for some time with no problems however the permanent solution is a Overhaul. When i told him that i don't want the reborring stuff and then over sized piston done, he told me that I can go for a complete new kit. It would consist of a new block and a new ZERO size piston ( i don't know what it is). Further he told me to make my mind first and then come. He sounded quite geniune and quoted around Rs9000 for all the work.

I left the workshop with oil changed and the bike is riding as it was earlier. Have driven it around 50kms but yet to have confidence in the machine. The trouble is its asking for immediate tyre and battery change. What should i do now??

[kkg]

The bike is running good as of now. Got the tyre changed to MRF zapper-q and a new battery as well. The bike ran good for two days after that. And then it started missing and stopping abrubtly. It seemed that plug was loosing current. So changed the whole ignition coil and plug wire. ( Honda didn't have the stock and told me to wait for fifteen days, so went straight to HH and purchased the coil for HH Cbz extreme, that's why every one says buy HH)

Any ways the bike is now starting on the first push of the button, even in the rain.Now my question is once again:- Can a bad or weak coil/coil cable had led to my initial problem i.e. losing compression.Is it possible?

[aargee]

Sorry for a late reply...

Originally Posted by kkg

he told me that I can go for a complete new kit. It would consist of a new block and a new ZERO size piston ( i don't know what it is). Further he told me to make my mind first and then come. He sounded quite geniune and quoted around Rs9000 for all the work.

Yes, this is a good option, if you cannot afford for a new motorcycle & do not part with the current one. What this basically means is, getting a new engine cylinder & the piston kit that comes along with it. So this is as good as factory fit & finish & no issues on clearances etc. Good option too.

Originally Posted by kkg

Now my question is once again:- Can a bad or weak coil/coil cable had led to my initial problem i.e. losing compression.Is it possible?

Nope; IMHO, I don't think a bad ignition coil can cause any trouble; how ever revving the engine too much with or without a bad ignition will make you lose out of compression soon. A friend of mine has a 45K on Unicorn that's simply superb. He rides fast, but doesn't rip. Hope you got what I intent to say.

[ajman28]

I am reviving an old thread because I experienced a very similar situation recently.

I ride a Honda Unicorn which is 3 years old with an odo reading of 33k.

Case in detail.

Scene 1:
2 years back, the bike refused to start at a traffic junction (a very embarrassing situation). It refused to respond to the electric start and kicker was going all the way down very smoothly. I called up the A.S.S. and they sent a technician (not promptly though, it's a case study for the sales guy vs service guy temperament study in itself. But that's a different story all together).

The technician opens the fuel lid, electric starts the bike at full throttle. The bike to my surprise (and further embarrassment with the technicians "look") roared to life quickly. He indicated that this was due to "no compression". Later at the service centre, the trouble was identified to a faulty gasket (which was replaced) and poor quality/dust in fuel (which I cannot accept). Thus the matter was conveniently forgotten by me and the A.S.S.

Scene 2:
A week back I start the bike in the morning (after a break for about a week). It comes to life within 2 kicks (I didn't use the choke the 1st time). I take the bike out from the shed, idle it for about a minute, close the choke, shift to first and it stalls. I opt for the electric start this time and it doesn't respond. So switched to kick-start and noticed that the kicker is going all the way down smoothly. I was quickly taken back 2 years and the traffic junction!

I opened the fuel lid and tried the electric start at full throttle (the same method used by the technician in scene 1). The bike did not start. I hike 1 km, spotted a local mechanic and got him to check the bike. He checks the spark plug (which was found to be ok) cleans it with some petrol, drains some fuel through one of the tubes coming out of the tank (couldn't figure exactly what this was) and then again tries the electric start and the bike comes to life.

I ask him what the trouble was and the answers are all very unsatisfactory, eg: bad fuel, cylinder head tightened beyond limit, air lock etc etc. I left the matter at rest there (considering the fact that the bike didn't have any visible/audible issues).

End of case.


I have no issues with power loss, oil consumption, black/white smoke etc. The bike still touches 80+ kmh without missing a beat.

So now the question is, what exactly happened here? Why did this happen?

[kkg]

@ajman28

This is now clear that this is very peculiar problem with unicorns. It happened with me, with my friend's unicorn ( just 5500 kms run then), and now to you.

But it happened with me at around 49000km and has not happened again (now the bike is at 57190kms). May be because I took the bike for a Delhi-mussorrie-Delhi trip, running the bike at high speeds for long duration. In the process, all the carbon deposits in the engine got evaporated somehow and the bike is running good since then. I know this is a kind of weird theory but it has worked for me.The problem is the carbon deposits, that is definite.

One more thing, if this again happens to you, try to push start the bike in 2nd gear. It may not start first time but the stuck piston would move for sure and then you can kick start it. Worked with me and I did the same on my friend's bike, worked again.

[ash_g]

Hi all,

I too have the same problem. 2 weeks back while riding the bike it stopped suddenly on the way and refused to start. As mentioned by others, it wouldn't respond to kick start with kicker going all the way down smoothly and also to electric start. Pushed the bike to a nearest bike shop who tried changing the spark plug, starting the bike by putting petrol directly into the engine etc but was unsuccessful. Finally they stopped the work saying engine compression issue and telling that engine had to be opened.

So pushed the bike to my home and then called up the customer service people who came home and took the vehicle away. I was told that the repair charges would be above 15k, but the correct estimate would be given after opening up the engine and checking.

Now some history. I had been experiencing high engine heat for sometime after running the bike continuously for 40 mins or so. I had told the service people during the previous service period (2 services before) and it became kind of ok after the service. However after the service while giving the bike to me the guy told me that there were white smokes coming through the exhaust and this has to be checked during the next service.

So coming back, the service centre that the bike is at now, is new to me as I've moved to a new place. Today I got a call from the service centre saying that the total cost would be a whopping 20k!!!! They said that the engine bore has gone, crankshaft changes, piston change etc and also the battery had to be replaced (1.8k) and chain as well (1k).

I told them not to work on it as I'd need to think about it. Earlier last weekend I had been to the service centre and asked for exchange of this vehicle. This was before they had quoted me the service charges and the guy over there said he'd give 22k since the engine work was there. After negotiations he said that he would give max 25k.

So the question is,
1. Isn't this service quote way over the top? My bike is 2006 model and has run about 38k kms. I use it for daily commute, though had taken it for long trips in the first couple of years after buying the bike.
2. Instead of getting the engine serviced/repaired, is it better to replace the engine itself? If so what would be the approximate price?
3. Or is it better to sell the vehicle and get a new one?

Please give me your valuable suggestions. Thanks in advance for any help on this.