Honda's 250cc Bike : CBR250R!

Sheel · 28th October 2010, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX135

True! This one lies in between P220/R15 and Ninja, both on specs side as well as price. What is "rumoured" top speed of this bike? I guess, R15 tops out at 135(?) and Ninja around 160(?).

Top speed stock is almost 5-7kmph lesser.

Top speed rumors

for this Motorcycle hasn't yet started, but a safe guess would be 140kmph+ (true) and won't top out 155kmph as stock, but lets wait.

Quote:

P.S.: It seems weird that we are talking of a VFM offering from Honda, which this would be, if indeed launched at anything less than 1.75L.

They have to, there would be a Rs. 25,000 100cc Honda commuter.
They might be launching a CBR-150R.
Have just updated the Unicorn with the Dazzler.
The Twister licks all 100/125cc products from HH.

Why?

Because post the JV and each moving onto its own path, Honda wants to make a strong statement and wishes to participate in the nos. game, a game in which HH was numero-uno, only because of the Honda mill powering the Motorcycles.

jkdas · 28th October 2010, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheel

Top speed stock is almost 5-7kmph lesser.

Top speed rumors

for this Motorcycle hasn't yet started, but a safe guess would be 140kmph+ (true) and won't top out 155kmph as stock, but lets wait.

They have to, there would be a Rs. 25,000 100cc Honda commuter.
They might be launching a CBR-150R.
Have just updated the Unicorn with the Dazzler.
The Twister licks all 100/125cc products from HH.

Why?

Because post the JV and each moving onto its own path, Honda wants to make a strong statement and wishes to participate in the nos. game, a game in which HH was numero-uno, only because of the Honda mill powering the Motorcycles.

Correct on the 100/125CC part.And they still rule the scooter market ( sad about the shortage though).

If they price it at 1.5lac (OTR ? yah yah), HH will need to rethink Kzhma's pricing. If Honda has to gain glory on bike sales, pray they price it good.

Will be happy to see it do 150 for 1.5lac. The selling point will be quality,brand name and price. RE C500 costs 1.40ish and still has built quality, top end issues.

I think I should start saving and canvassing my better half.

jeepster · 28th October 2010, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by aargee

Can't expect any VFM products from Honda. Right from Unicorn, Activa to Jazz & City, they're priced slightly above the market.

as far as bikes are concerned, yes they are slightly over priced but ownership costs are negligible compared to others. (TVS,HH)
(activa-pep-pleasure & unicorn-apache-extrame)

so i would not mind to pay on road 1,80,000/- for it.

local service/spares (when compared to Kawasaki)
reliability (when compared zmr & p220)

n_aditya · 28th October 2010, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX135

What is "rumoured" top speed of this bike? I guess, R15 tops out at 135(?) and Ninja around 160(?).

The true top speed of the ninja is 170kmph (tested by a popular bike magazine in the UK).

abhayshanu · 28th October 2010, 12:19

In any case, this bike would be great for real enthusiasts who want something faster than the normal 220cc bikes but cant afford a Ninja 250r(If priced at 1.5L).
I just hope this is really priced at 1.5L, if it is, it will eat quite alot from the R15 and ZMR sales. The 220 sales will be affected but not much, as most 220 buyers dont have more money to buy something better. And as for the Ninja sales, it will go down quite a few, but this will mean that, most of the Ninja owners will be true bikers and not the ones who just want a small SBK.
*All this is my personal oppoinion, hope didn't offend anyone.

v.anand · 28th October 2010, 18:46

This bike is another wonderful addition to modern powerful bike for enthusiasts segment in India. The game has definitely moved on from the time when Karizma and Pulsar used to fight their battles for supremacy, from now on its going to be CBR 250 and Ninja 250. The design looks better than Ninja visually to me and the specifications are almost on par. Ninja though holds the edge on paper due to twin cylinder configuration which must naturally translate to better refinement. Pricing is going to be the key factor here, if CBR is priced at 1.5 lakhs and thereabouts as speculated, it surely will create another niche segment right in the middle of R15 and Ninja and thereby takes the cake from both. Judging Honda from their past record, its highly unlikely since they are never known to rule segments by cutting prices and will eventually cost as much as Ninja is my prediction.

altius · 28th October 2010, 19:13

As most of bhpians say, it would a great buy if Honda prices it in the 1.5L range. But where did the 1.5L expected price came from?

Rollin' Thunda · 28th October 2010, 20:29

If the 1.5 L price is correct, then this would be a brilliant move by Honda, as it would put the 250R in the same aspirational, but attainable, position for avid bikers, as its Unicorn/dazzler was for commuters.

The Ninjas/HDs/BMWs are seen as bikes for the super-rich with a lot of money to blow. But a 1.50 L bike can be explained to and cajoled out of ones better half, as one cannot really buy a car (except the Nano!) for the same price. So I would expect that it would sell a lot better than the Ninjas/HDs/BMWs, and because of the dismal reputation of the RE C500, better than those too.

I like Honda's stategy of manufacturing the bikes in India, which not only helps them avoid import duties and the lowers the price, but also helps Indian workers earn a living.

Sheel · 28th October 2010, 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by aargee

Only B.A.L or may be T.V.S can only give VFM products. Can't expect any VFM products from Honda. Right from Unicorn, Activa

Unicorn isn't VFM? It is one of the cheapest 150cc in offering. Maybe Achiever cuts it and recently SZ.
Agreed Honda badge sells in 4 wheels and they aren't exactly VFM, but two wheels? You got to pay for the quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_aditya

The true top speed of the ninja is 170kmph (tested by a popular bike magazine in the UK).

Is the same 250R available to us? In the same state of tune?
As all magazines in India came up with almost similar figures.

Sorry for OT.

Mpower · 28th October 2010, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Also CBR stands for 'City Bike Racing' which is what this bike is & hence the naming.

I found that the CBRs are more sporty compared to the VFRs which were less hardcore and suited for touring/city. The RRs like the CBR xxx RR is even more hardcore sports.
Back in the 90, there used to be a CBR250RR with a totally mental inline4 250 that revved to 18,000 rpm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutripta

in which India (our emission regime) has also been factored in. Don't think Honda would have done it if they had no plans for India.

Good point. They never brought the CBR150 to India. Emissions may have been the issue.

typeOnegative · 28th October 2010, 23:56

Will the Ninja price come down as a result of this new entry? I am toying with the idea of replacing my RX135. Hmm ... The launch date for the Honda is March 2011 right? Which is a long way away. And the Ninja is 3.08L OTR in Mumbai. I cannot wait so long. Crap!!!

IronWolf · 29th October 2010, 00:58

Honda, Are you watching this tread? Your numbers game will play off if you price this thing right.

There are enough number of pulsar boys who want a good upgrade, guys who want good value for money, guys who want more Bhp at a reliable price from a reliable stable.

The CBR250R us going to hit a sweet empty spot in the Indian bike market.
We are so stuck in this 150cc zone that even this guy says
2011 Honda CBR250R Unveiled! Coming to India in April 2011

Quote:

The CBR150R will be available in India in both C-ABS and non-C-ABS versions.

..

Quote:

Originally Posted by black12rr

It will be MADE IN INDIA and ALSO exported.

This part gave me goosebumps.
Made In India = No CKD nonsense charges
Made In India = cheaper original parts
Made In India = more value for money

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sutripta

Waiting for Yamaha's reply.

Being a Yamaha guy for 13 years.... This part gave me more goosebumps.
IMO - R15 is such a badly positioned confused bike. I always felt that should have just boosted the price by another 20-30k and got a 'R25', which would have made more sense. Looks like Honda got the picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheel

The price of 1.5L is a guesstimate by many, and hope its true.

Looking at the HMSI's current portfolio, price bands, considering it would be made here I think this is possible. No real logic. Fingers crossed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slick

Ninja is a CKD and attracts much less duties than a a CBU. It is assembled in India.

This is not CKD or CBU if I understand right? It attracts nothing much other than many of us who want value for money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_aditya

The true top speed of the ninja is 170kmph (tested by a popular bike magazine in the UK).

Saar that is just heavy Brit winds in a favorable direction giving these readings.

Just Yanking your kawaker chain dude.

Baby Ninja is a brilliant bike - I just wish they would open a plant and make the damm thing here - Export it from here, make their money and give us the goods at low margins.

One day HMSI and Yamaha are going to start make their 600s here in India and export em out. Thats when I stop doing this

I believe this is just a step in that direction - Kudos to you HMSI.

n_aditya · 29th October 2010, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollin' Thunda

The Ninjas/HDs/BMWs are seen as bikes for the super-rich with a lot of money to blow.

Not the ninja 250.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheel

Is the same 250R available to us? In the same state of tune? As all magazines in India came up with almost similar figures.

Yes, the exact same Ninja 250R is available in India. UK Spec with absolutely no changes except the addition of a saree guard and front number plate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Will the Ninja price come down as a result of this new entry? I am toying with the idea of replacing my RX135. And the Ninja is 3.08L OTR in Mumbai. I cannot wait so long. Crap!!!

Won't happen. The Ninja 250R sells for 4000 USD abroad plus insurance and taxes. That roughly translates to INR 2 lacs here. Add duties (at 25% IIRC) and the ex-showroom price comes to almost 2.7 lacs. Bajaj is not making any moolah selling the ninja here except for a very narrow margin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronWolf

This is not CKD or CBU if I understand right?

The Ninja 250R is a CKD. Parts are imported from Japan/Thailand and assembled at the Chakan plant in Pune. Since parts are imported the duties are low at around 25%. If the bike was imported completely built then it would have been more expensive since duties would exceed 100%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronWolf

Baby Ninja is a brilliant bike - I just wish they would open a plant and make the damm thing here - Export it from here, make their money and give us the goods at low margins.

I am happy for once that the parts aren't localized or manufactured here. One thing that will suffer is quality. I'd rather pay a premium and get parts that are reliable and have passed stringent QC measures. This does not mean that Indian companies have no quality measures. Most parts will be sourced from suppliers etc. to keep costs down and that is a risk on quality.

Sheel · 29th October 2010, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhayshanu

most of the Ninja owners will be true bikers and not the ones who just want a small SBK.

Sorry, but your judging parameter is compeletely flawed

Who is a biker?

Someone who is in his 40's, got the CBR-250R and enjoying his ride, or someone in his early 20's riding the 250R because it was gifted by his dad on his b'day?

You are a judging a Motorcyclist passion by looking at the Motorcycle he rides? Yes it will be true when someone chose a R15 over a P-220 if both were similarly priced.

By jolly, then India's cricket captain should be awarded as the most passionate biker of all times.

hiren.mistry · 29th October 2010, 12:43

Finally, thank you Honda!
A worthy upgrade for 150/180/220 riders.

It will not compete with the Ninja 250 (thats in a class of one) but will really dent the sales of R15, ZMA and Pulsar 220 to an extent. Of course only if they price it at the figure mentioned during the launch.

The Mahindra Mojo is really looking silly now.

28th October 2010, 12:19	#50
abhayshanu BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 708 Thanked: 324 Times View My Garage	In any case, this bike would be great for real enthusiasts who want something faster than the normal 220cc bikes but cant afford a Ninja 250r(If priced at 1.5L). I just hope this is really priced at 1.5L, if it is, it will eat quite alot from the R15 and ZMR sales. The 220 sales will be affected but not much, as most 220 buyers dont have more money to buy something better. And as for the Ninja sales, it will go down quite a few, but this will mean that, most of the Ninja owners will be true bikers and not the ones who just want a small SBK. *All this is my personal oppoinion, hope didn't offend anyone.
	() Thanks

28th October 2010, 18:46	#51
v.anand BHPian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 329 Thanked: 44 Times	This bike is another wonderful addition to modern powerful bike for enthusiasts segment in India. The game has definitely moved on from the time when Karizma and Pulsar used to fight their battles for supremacy, from now on its going to be CBR 250 and Ninja 250. The design looks better than Ninja visually to me and the specifications are almost on par. Ninja though holds the edge on paper due to twin cylinder configuration which must naturally translate to better refinement. Pricing is going to be the key factor here, if CBR is priced at 1.5 lakhs and thereabouts as speculated, it surely will create another niche segment right in the middle of R15 and Ninja and thereby takes the cake from both. Judging Honda from their past record, its highly unlikely since they are never known to rule segments by cutting prices and will eventually cost as much as Ninja is my prediction.
	() Thanks

28th October 2010, 19:13	#52
altius BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 240 Thanked: 101 Times	As most of bhpians say, it would a great buy if Honda prices it in the 1.5L range. But where did the 1.5L expected price came from?
	() Thanks

28th October 2010, 20:29	#53
Rollin' Thunda BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: now Hyderabad Posts: 288 Thanked: 94 Times	If the 1.5 L price is correct, then this would be a brilliant move by Honda, as it would put the 250R in the same aspirational, but attainable, position for avid bikers, as its Unicorn/dazzler was for commuters. The Ninjas/HDs/BMWs are seen as bikes for the super-rich with a lot of money to blow. But a 1.50 L bike can be explained to and cajoled out of ones better half, as one cannot really buy a car (except the Nano!) for the same price. So I would expect that it would sell a lot better than the Ninjas/HDs/BMWs, and because of the dismal reputation of the RE C500, better than those too. I like Honda's stategy of manufacturing the bikes in India, which not only helps them avoid import duties and the lowers the price, but also helps Indian workers earn a living. Last edited by Rollin' Thunda : 28th October 2010 at 20:32.
	() Thanks

28th October 2010, 23:56	#56
typeOnegative Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vikhroli, Mumbai, India Posts: 1,503 Thanked: 27 Times	Will the Ninja price come down as a result of this new entry? I am toying with the idea of replacing my RX135. Hmm ... The launch date for the Honda is March 2011 right? Which is a long way away. And the Ninja is 3.08L OTR in Mumbai. I cannot wait so long. Crap!!!
	() Thanks

29th October 2010, 12:43	#60
hiren.mistry Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bombay, London Posts: 1,240 Thanked: 996 Times	Finally, thank you Honda! A worthy upgrade for 150/180/220 riders. It will not compete with the Ninja 250 (thats in a class of one) but will really dent the sales of R15, ZMA and Pulsar 220 to an extent. Of course only if they price it at the figure mentioned during the launch. The Mahindra Mojo is really looking silly now.
	() Thanks