[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by null

i saw a blue Liva being tested on the road yesterday (here in Bangalore). Wonder why are they still masking the badges & chromes and driving it around?

May be keep you eyes wide open, it might turn out that they are testing the diesel version.

[mkpiyengar]

Thanks GTO for the wonderful review.

Toyota Liva would sell for the TOYOTA brand value and the KMPL figures!!

Toyota with 18kmpl @5Lakhs ! Thatz how it would be preceived. Kitna deti hai ?

Thats the way it goes like it or leave it. Price on higher side obviously the T Guys caching in on the brand value what else!!

MKP

[zulfi hansi]

Originally Posted by Equus

J model is strictly for the under-budget and I think they have better choice too unless they are die-hard Toyota fans.

Rightly said, the build quality of Liva is a let down, specially when compared to Figo and Fabia. Fabia classic is available at a discounted price of 3.99 with PS, Figo Lxi on the other hand is available for 3.59 with PS (approx 4.25 OTR Bangalore). While Figo is excellent VFM, the Fabia gives the best quality. If FE is kept aside these cars do a lot more then the Liva and under-budget buyers are all about VFM. If the user has a low running of about 700kms/month, if we even take the difference in mileage @ 5kms/ltr, he spends about Rs.1000 /month extra on petrol, so in case of Figo where he saves about 65K he can drive 65 months with all that he will not get in Liva, cost free! and in case of Fabia look at the quality he gets for the same price + PS, Liva does not make any sense at 3.99 without PS. Many in our country can still have only one car and IMO Liva does not live up to the expectations of an all-rounder.

[anachronix]

Good review!

However, its a weak looking Toyota. I am particularly scared about how it would score on crash ratings for this cheapo built product from Toyota!

[fast&furious]

Wow another fantastic unbiased review!Kudos to you GTO.

Saw the Liva in the showroom a few days ago. It looks small and I believe it's nowhere near the other cars in that segment when it comes to feature list. And according to the review the engine is not up to the mark either.

But I've already witnessed 7 bookings in 2 days! 4 in the showroom and 3 of my relatives are getting ready to buy it without even TDing the other cars!!! "Features can be added later" they say!

[Aragorn]

The distinct tone of the respected forum after the Etios launch was that Toyota was short-charging us Indians. Get a depleted platform from the dozens that Toyota has, slap on an old engine, don't give a hoot about styling or interior quality and put a Toyota sticker on it!
Voila! And it would rack up sales in thousands.

What is slightly disturbing is that this sort of an undertone is not evident in the Liva thread. Would Toyota dare to launch a non-Euro-NCAP certified product elsewhere? Regulations aside, isn't it a prerogative of the manufacturer to do so, especially the world's biggest? While I appreciate the safety package being offered on all but the lowest variant, this sort of treatment to India is decidedly not a move in the right direction.

And as far as I can understand the Indian psyche, anything labelled 'cheap' is never touched by us, especially when its a status symbol like the car. While the Qualis competed with the Sumos of a decade ago, the Liva is against a much more competitive set. More importantly, it is facing a much more informed audience. Build quality was a "desirable" trait then, not anymore. Quality is hygiene; we don't buy a car anymore because of the hope that it won't breakdown. We buy it because of what statement it makes about us.

Bear in mind that despite many years of being here, Toyota's reach outside of big towns in still limited. And in here, people no longer buy a product just because of basic virtues like build quality. They look for a whole lot more.

I am not at all doubting that the claimed 8500 figure quoted. I am pretty sure it will surpassed. Just feel that Toyota lost an opportunity to create an "aspirational image" in the volume segment with both the Etios and the Liva. The Swift and i20 have managed to do that very well and are reaping rewards for the manufacturers on a sustained basis. I am not sure the Liva will do the same for Toyota. It will be just be another "me-too" product.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

The distinct tone of the respected forum after the Etios launch was that Toyota was short-charging us Indians. Get a depleted platform from the dozens that Toyota has, slap on an old engine, don't give a hoot about styling or interior quality and put a Toyota sticker on it!
Voila! And it would rack up sales in thousands.

What is slightly disturbing is that this sort of an undertone is not evident in the Liva thread. Would Toyota dare to launch a non-Euro-NCAP certified product elsewhere? Regulations aside, isn't it a prerogative of the manufacturer to do so, especially the world's biggest? While I appreciate the safety package being offered on all but the lowest variant, this sort of treatment to India is decidedly not a move in the right direction.

And as far as I can understand the Indian psyche, anything labelled 'cheap' is never touched by us, especially when its a status symbol like the car. While the Qualis competed with the Sumos of a decade ago, the Liva is against a much more competitive set. More importantly, it is facing a much more informed audience. Build quality was a "desirable" trait then, not anymore. Quality is hygiene; we don't buy a car anymore because of the hope that it won't breakdown. We buy it because of what statement it makes about us.

Bear in mind that despite many years of being here, Toyota's reach outside of big towns in still limited. And in here, people no longer buy a product just because of basic virtues like build quality. They look for a whole lot more.

Very well written piece and I completely agree with your thoughts on the Liva. I have not seen the car in person, but from the review it’s quite evident that it’s a competent, but compromised and build-to-a –specific-market product.

I am not a fan of Toyota, and I personally admire their global rival Honda for bringing in more up-to-date products in India (better aligned with global markets). But the key question is – why single out Toyota?

IMHO, 75% of the cars sold in India are not Euro-NCAP certified. Some of the models sold in India may have Euro-NCAP certification globally, but that does not mean that we have the same variant sold here.

Toyota is here to do business, and they know the art of market penetration better than any other manufacturer, and they are doing it very well within the current rules and regulations.

[ganesc]

Nice review and pics from GTO as one would expect.

Coming to Liva, hmmm, nothing special about it. It just looks like another family hatch that would sell like hot cakes due to its badge value as many in this forum had already said.

Just wondering how would these reviews be if Liva was under a TATA badge and a Vista under Toyota(!)

Could see some huge panel gaps in almost all videos showing the Liva but then most reviewers leave their thumb only on an Indian brand to show how huge the panel gaps are, pity we.

Man, Centrally mounted instrument panel in a Vista and Nano = Non-sense for many a people.
but in a Etios and Liva = Brilliant, We need not take our eyes off the road. doesn't hinder the visibility. then why dont they make it a standard arrangement in all their other cars such as Corolla, Camry, Innova, Fortuner and so and so.

Integrated head rest, single wiper blade, wafer thin sheet metal in a lakh rupee car - not many could accept it, but when it comes in a Q class, that becomes an advantage.

Tata should recruit the marketing team from Toyota who took a crap and cleverly justified the defects as its features.

First look at the Etios and Liva few months back, felt really bad why in this world will people still think they can do anything to Indians.

Should definitely appreciate the Germans for bringing in their World class products to India (May not be with the same quality though).

Would be nice if Toyota learns a lesson or two from India that they cant sell anything and everything here but then, these cars are already going on waiting period and so nothing can stop them I guess.

Note:- I don't own/fan of either Tata or Toyota cars. Just compared Indian mentality towards own vs foreign product STILL.

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by vb-san

I am not a fan of Toyota, and I personally admire their global rival Honda for bringing in more up-to-date products in India (better aligned with global markets). But the key question is – why single out Toyota?

IMHO, 75% of the cars sold in India are not Euro-NCAP certified. Some of the models sold in India may have Euro-NCAP certification globally, but that does not mean that we have the same variant sold here.

Toyota is here to do business, and they know the art of market penetration better than any other manufacturer, and they are doing it very well within the current rules and regulations.

Thanks vb-san for the constructive argument.

Firstly, I don't intend to single out Toyota or any other manufacturer. Since this is a Toyota thread, I just did not want to sound off-topic.

Secondly, if you see the products brought into the country recently, I am not sure the 75% you suggest would be apt. Most manufacturers bring their global products and hence would have mandated an NCAP rating.

Even the Figo, which is a "India specific" model is based on the (previous) global Fiesta platform and hence would have been crash tested. That is all the point I am trying to make.

Totally agree with you that Toyota are within the rules and regulations. However, I was coming from a perspective of projecting the Liva / Etios as an aspirational product and things like Euro NCAP rating along with features like 6 airbags (even if optional on top-end) would have made a difference.

[fast&furious]

Originally Posted by vb-san

Toyota is here to do business, and they know the art of market penetration better than any other manufacturer, and they are doing it very well within the current rules and regulations.

I completely agree with that.I think the Etios is a big hit(it's a decent car.to me the best in the segment) and the brand image will be pushing the people to go for the Liva. A Toyota for 4 lakhs! That's what is pushing many of them. And because of that very reason one cant expect it to be as successful as the Innova or Etios.

But I believe it's not just brand image but the peace mind of owning a Toyota that the consumer gets. It will serve you for years to come without complaining unlike...say a Hyundai or a Tata. And the Indian buyer pays a lot of attention to such things. Indian people respect Toyota a lot more than other brands.When you say they are misusing the brand image, you need to consider this Reliability factor also.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Totally agree with you that Toyota are within the rules and regulations. However, I was coming from a perspective of projecting the Liva / Etios as an aspirational product and things like Euro NCAP rating along with features like 6 airbags (even if optional on top-end) would have made a difference.

You need to see with whom they are competing with. They (Toyota) looked at the competition, and came up with a product accordingly. I agree that they could have done better (and unlike with Etios, Liva is competing in a fairly crowded segment).

But more than anything, their USP will be the legendary Toyota reliability.

Originally Posted by Aragorn

Secondly, if you see the products brought into the country recently, I am not sure the 75% you suggest would be apt. Most manufacturers bring their global products and hence would have mandated an NCAP rating.

Even the Figo, which is a "India specific" model is based on the (previous) global Fiesta platform and hence would have been crash tested. That is all the point I am trying to make.

My comment (75%) was specifically on Euro-NCAP rating. Standard crash tests are done on most of our cars, and I have no disagreement on that. Even the Liva would have undergone some standard safety procedures.

Originally Posted by fast&furious

But I believe it's not just brand image but the peace mind of owning a Toyota that the consumer gets. It will serve you for years to come without complaining unlike...say a Hyundai or a Tata. And the Indian buyer pays a lot of attention to such things. Indian people respect Toyota a lot more than other brands.When you say they are misusing the brand image, you need to consider this Reliability factor also.

That’s the whole point about Toyota. People in general, don’t buy Toyota for the so called luxury feeling or sporty nature. It’s all about reliability and utilitarian needs.

Purchase decision of an average Indian buyer is based on certain parameters and planned expenses. E.g.; FE, reliability, visits to A.S&S etc. Accident or crash-worthiness does not feature there because it is unplanned.

In the next 3 to 5 years, I can foresee Toyota becoming the no.1 player in the small car segment in India (small hatchbacks to entry level C segment)

[adimicra]

Originally Posted by ganesc

Nice review and pics from GTO as one would expect.

Coming to Liva, hmmm, nothing special about it. It just looks like another family hatch that would sell like hot cakes due to its badge value as many in this forum had already said.

Just wondering how would these reviews be if Liva was under a TATA badge and a Vista under Toyota(!)

Could see some huge panel gaps in almost all videos showing the Liva but then most reviewers leave their thumb only on an Indian brand to show how huge the panel gaps are, pity we.

Man, Centrally mounted instrument panel in a Vista and Nano = Non-sense for many a people.
but in a Etios and Liva = Brilliant, We need not take our eyes off the road. doesn't hinder the visibility. then why dont they make it a standard arrangement in all their other cars such as Corolla, Camry, Innova, Fortuner and so and so.

Integrated head rest, single wiper blade, wafer thin sheet metal in a lakh rupee car - not many could accept it, but when it comes in a Q class, that becomes an advantage.

Tata should recruit the marketing team from Toyota who took a crap and cleverly justified the defects as its features.

First look at the Etios and Liva few months back, felt really bad why in this world will people still think they can do anything to Indians.

Should definitely appreciate the Germans for bringing in their World class products to India (May not be with the same quality though).

Would be nice if Toyota learns a lesson or two from India that they cant sell anything and everything here but then, these cars are already going on waiting period and so nothing can stop them I guess.

Note:- I don't own/fan of either Tata or Toyota cars. Just compared Indian mentality towards own vs foreign product STILL.

You are right but the big difference is - Are the tata cars as reliable as Toyota? At the same time, there are other manufacturers in the country who make very reliable cars.
Liva is a substandard product, period.
It is costlier than a Swift/I10 ( am considering the version with PS) and similar to I20/Polo. Toyota is trying to cash in on the brand image.
But, I do not think Brand image alone will be sufficient. The Etios and Liva will get outdated pretty soon with the ordinary design and lack of features and then, Toytoa will have no option than to go back to the drawing board. The market is maturing first and it is foolish to take the Indian customer for granted,

[naut]

I don't find a lot of news about the bookings for the "Liva".

The latest information that I've managed to find is about 1500 bookings after a week since launch. Here's the link Toyota registers a growth of 94% in June 2011 - CarWale News.

The response to the "Liva" seems to be muted when compared to its sedan sibling which had 8000 bookings in a week!

[tj123]

Yesterday dropped in at Ravindu Toyota on the ORR for a short test drive, the staff quickly arranged one, got to handle a Red Liva VX version. The car was not marked as a test drive car. As you enter the car it feels really huge , it has really good space and feels like a big car. The seats though thin looking are very comfortable with good lumbar support.
We were 4 of us in the car including the sales guy , the initial pick up was ok , slotted into 2 gear and floored the gas pedal the car felt really sluggish, the sales fellow told that this is done for Fuel efficiency.
I manage to reach 70-80 kmpl on the short stretch of the ORR, I did not like the positioning of Instrument cluster it makes it difficult to gauge the speed of the car, the tachometer is even more difficult to read. The odo and the warning signs feels very tiny its bad by any standard!
The suspension were quite well tuned and there were lot of potholes on the service road which was well handled and cabin noise level inside was acceptable. The AC at full blast was noisy and I felt it was not that effective.

The interiors are quite spacious we as a family liked it . The seating positioning is good and one has ample space for stretching your legs. There is good amount of head room too. The Steering wheel is nice and very light to handle, did a couple of U turns ..no problem at all.. In the VX version you have to reach out for the horn as it is located in the center of the steering, bad ergonomics.
On the rear seat there is good leg space and comfortable seating for three passengers. I felt that the seat are a bit narrow, lacking bit of under thigh support.
The boot space is just average 251 lts wonder why they reduced it so much.

The fit and finish of the car is good with no uneven panel gaps. You will miss the door closing thud, but is acceptable.

The ex show room price for base variant of Rs 4.21 lacs without PS is a day light robbery on top of it to rub salt on wound is the KA state taxes.

Overall I feel that Toyota has got the pricing wrong at least for this segment where you have other solid competitors like Figo, Polo, Fabia and off course Swift

[JoeMichael]

There is GTO doing what he does best- A crisp review.

Well , I think Toyota is playing a good game here. Liva isn't targeted at the BHPian genre for sure. But there is surely a significant customer base , who would be lured by Toyota Brand.
Not sure if many average customers , would look at the plastic quality / NVH levels before finalizing a car and Toyota is definitely depending on that lot for Liva.There would be takers for Liva , just b'coz of Toyota's excellent track record of rolling out tension free cars and the image of "bigger brand" they have built in the market.

Yes Toyota is definitely playing to the masses. After all , most of the best selling automobiles in Indian market aren't upto international standards either.

Would Liva sell ? (Probably) yes . Would I buy for myself ? Definitely no. Would I suggest it to someone - depends on the user.