[misquitas]

GTO, I enjoyed reading the review of the Liva.

Originally Posted by GTO

What's more, the air-con controls feel rather basic in their operation too (particularly the slider to choose recirculation / fresh air mode).

Air-conditioner controls are 10 years too old in look & feel. When was the last time you used a slider for recirculation / fresh air mode? Even the Figo gets a button

The I10 1.2 VTVT stills uses a slider for recirculation / fresh air mode and I'm quite OK with it.

Originally Posted by GTO

The difference between the Liva & Etios, variant to variant, is about 85 - 95K. That's about the same as it is for the Swift <-> Dzire, give or take some percentage points. Now, consider that no one thought the Etios variants as over-priced (I personally think it's the best & VFM buy in the C segment), and that you get a larger engine (vis a vis the Dzire that uses the same 1.2L). I think the Liva's entry & mid-variants are well priced. But the top-end definitely has room for correction.

True. I guess the reason why no one considers the Etios variants overpriced could be due to the fact that there are only 2-3 similarly priced competitors in the segment. But the Liva is in a highly competitive and price-conscious segment, where so many hatches are jostling for the same customers in the segment. You have said this in your post:

Originally Posted by GTO

However, unlike the Etios which has only 2 primary competitors, the Liva's alternatives are innumerable!!

Paying about Rs 4.3L (on road) for a Liva base petrol variant that lacks even power steering is nothing short of a rip-off, in my opinion.

I bought the I10 Magna in December 2010 for about Rs 4.4 L (on road) and it had PS/AC and most of the frills and fitments that I needed. Liva's base version, in my opinion, should have started at a maximum of Rs 3.5L (ex-showroom).

From the many reactions on this thread, it appears that many seem to be let down by the Liva, both by its pricing and its performance.

Of interest to me was the fact that the I10 and other cars have been compared with the Liva in many posts.

I initially wondered how the I10 would perform in comparison with the Liva, given the many competitors in the segment. After reading the review and the posts that followed, I was more that happy that I had opted for the I10.

As far as I am concerned, the icing on the I10 cake were these observations from GTO in his posts:

Post #4: "Outright acceleration (of Liva) is about on par with the Swift, though the quick i10 Kappa2 will leave both cars in its dust."

Post #50: "Cabin quality is even beaten by the Swift, leave along cars like the i10. The i10 Kappa2 remains my favourite petrol hatchback in the market today."

Thanks, GTO. Besides reinforcing my decision to buy the I10, you also made my day.

[saleem_k]

GTO, you don't know how eagerly I was waiting for this review. I spent the whole of Sunday trying to peek in here every hour to see if you have posted the review. Great review, but disappointing to know about this car. 5 stars to you, 3 stars to Liva.

Things which work for Liva are the leg space at the rear and a very normal car-like design, nothing quirky or fancy. Things which don't work, at least for me, are the NVH levels, the unconcealed wire on the metal behind the wheel and other such cost cutting fancies which Toyota has indulged in.

It is really disappointing to see Toyota offering such a product. I wouldn't mind if they offer the same variants with 50k extra on each trim type but with much better quality. I don't understand the competitive strategies as well, of these companies. Well, yes you have to target the masses, but a company like Toyota need to remember their brand's heritage and dole out products that should achieve their primary benchmark first and then have to innovate and do something different to ensure a USP for their products. What is the USP of Liva? I think it has something of everything but doesn't excel in them, and in fact stoops down to a level lower in some of the aspects.

I think the Indian consumer is a turning into a highly demanding consumer and cheap offerings don't go down well with them anymore. They still want the best out of the worst. So I don't really see Toyota gaining a big marketshare with the existing quality. I won't accept the argument that reducing prices will work for them coz there are much cheaper options which offer that kind of quality and in fact offer some things better than what is being observed in this review.

Toyota's reliability is no longer its USP. Modern technology and competition has ensured better engines with higher levels of reliability, power and refinement from other brands as well. I think most people still have the Toyota reliability at the top of their minds but don't necessarily believe that others are bad or not up to those levels. So Toyota should also come out of this archaic mindset that people would blindly buy it because it is Toyota. In this regard I commend Honda that they have maintained their quality inspite of losing significant market share and have not substandardized any of their existing products... Well, I don't want to start any argument here so let's end it there.

Finally, I would like to conclude by hoping that Toyota will take feedback from its potential customers and probably improve Liva over the time to match up to compeition's standards. I think gradually introducing a delighter or a satisfier here and there would make this product a better offering overall.

[amalji]

Very good review by GTO as usual.

Originally Posted by adimicra

The most unexciting car launch in the recent times.
The car looks dull, drives dull, features are dull, interiors are dull.

Everything is dull and ordinary about this car.
Toyota has launched this car at least 5 years later than when it should have been launched.

Let us see if the Toyota badge can help garner any sales for the Liva. That's the only USP it has. Disappointing!

I'm normally a fan of the Toyota Brand. But, the Liva is a disappointment. With Etios, they stuck to Space, comfort and Performance even when they cut short on other fancy items. With the Liva, they seem to have cut the performance factor as well. I tried to find out reasons to buy this car. I couldn't unfortunately. Will wait for the Diesel launch now.

[lmilind]

Great Impartial Review !!! I am one of the first owners of Etios & after driving the Car for around 6 Months & 18000 Kms, i still feel its a total VFM package available in C Segment.

I am fully agree that it has a poor quality of Plastic inside & very dull interiors but it is as or more spacious than ANHC. It has well refined & highly responsive engine, which gives same or even better driving pleasure than ANHC ( I had driven ANHC more than Etios ).

The Quality of paint & exterior finishing is top class & it doesn't look the Rs.6.5 Lacs Car from Outside ( certainly more than that ) & that's where it scores point over Dzire or even Manza, New Genration middle class in India wants to have little bit show off & "T" badge at that price point fulfill the aspirations....The important reason for failure of Tata Nano, was Tata had stressed too much on the Rs.1 Lac Price Points & average 2 wheeler Owner doesn't even wish to upgrade to Nano bcos though buying 4 wheeler is always an Aspiration but he doesnt want to relate himself with a cheap Car...In my Opinion, Tata stratergy had helped Maruti to automatically gain the new customers for Alto...

Originally Posted by GTO

Here's a thought : The difference between the Liva & Etios, variant to variant, is about 85 - 95K. That's about the same as it is for the Swift <-> Dzire, give or take some percentage points. Now, consider that no one thought the Etios variants as over-priced (I personally think it's the best & VFM buy in the C segment), and that you get a larger engine (vis a vis the Dzire that uses the same 1.2L). I think the Liva's entry & mid-variants are well priced. But the top-end definitely has room for correction. It's a 2 lakh rupee difference between the entry & top variant....that's like 50% of the price of the entry! As I mentioned, the one that makes the most sense is G + Safety pack.



More than marketing, the PR buzz from a Toyota @ 3.99 lakhs is invaluable. You can bet this car has generated more interest than any recent launch.



I feel the mid-variant is VFM as you get matured ride & handling, sedan-like space and the usual hassle-free attributes one associates with a Toyota. However, the fully loaded VX is definitely not VFM, considering that the top i20 is only 34K away!



You won't believe how happy I was to receive the blue car for my test. The champagne shade was too boring.



The Japanese have a way of going about things, wot?



Of course, the rear doors are equipped with child locks.

[getsurya]

GTO, thanks for the wonderful review.

I feel Toyota is taking Indian customers on a ride again purely on the brand value. Liva might sell, however the car is so pre-historic in design and is supposed to compete with Swift.

[rajeev k]

Excellent in-depth report touching all vital points, even minute aspects elaboratelym that had turnrd out to be a B-segment car buying guide more than a single car test drive. Kudos T Bhp.Now we can see many an automags copying from these for sure.

Regarding the car, the interior colour combinations, bad looking and non-indicative switches, naked wheel wells etc. are real bad delivery toyota.

It has become clear that the chrome bar on the rear hatch door is borne out of a superstitious belief. The Swift Dezire which launched this at first was a success and Toyota copied it and Mahindras promptly did it in its Verito hoping to make a tilt in the sales chart-.

[tckanth]

Thanks for an excellent review GTO.
And the Toyota factory details re-assure the confidence we have in their quality.

[MCR]

Originally Posted by wildon

I think you missed this

Thanks. I got stumped looking at this picture.


One interesting thing what I have observed is, Liva was not the most anticipated car. Not something like when the Figo or for that matter Etios was launched. Thanks to the good choices available in the market.
But considering the evident cost cutting and missing features, this car will not dislodge Swift and the i20 from their respective thrones. The segment will only hot up with the launch of Beat diesel, and if GM can manage to undercut the Toyota pricing.
And mind you, only brand name doesnt sell. Its like having a gun without bullets.

[thesilentone]

Excellent review of a not so excellent car. But I suppose the average Joe buyer is not going to buy cars based on their merits but more by herd mentality. If a car is selling well, it is supposed to be superior and hence the buyers will make a bee-line for that particular car. I can foresee a tremendous rush to buy this car irrespective of whether there are better buys or not.

[adentist]

Excellent review GTO. Though the car looks crappy by TBHP standards, everyone knows this is going to sell like hotcakes. Indians can't resist a Toyota at this price point.

[Parm]

a honest review by GTO and showing any favors to the brand image.

i have see the mix reviews of the TBhp members on the Liva, which is good and bad.

every one to his/her own liking.

as GTO said, its the cheapest toyota on the road, in the world. thats what exaclty toyota wanted to give us indians.

even bmw has started the work on its first FWD small car, smaller than the 1series.

mercedes benz is working on a new A class, cheapest MB ever.

its the era of small cars and which ever OEM can give us their brand image in the cheapest way, people will certainly buy their cars!

sub 4 meter length and a 1.2 ltr engine is the cheapest way to launch a car in a segment with 10 competitors.

some will buy and some wont....life still drives on!

good work Toyota.

[download2live]

I feel it will sell in decent numbers but it wont be able to dislodge the Swift and i10. Etios had it easy in a segment where the offerings by other car makers were not compelling enough. Unfortunately Liva is up against formidable line of competitors whose offerings are very well balanced. i10 beats Liva hands down in interiors department while Swift leaves it far behind in performance segment.

Only a diesel might make some difference. They need to get Liva D in as soon as possible.

[sharma_sanjeevi]

Good Review..!! The Liva seems very ordinary in the already crowded segment in which it is launched. The competition is a LOT better in every aspect, if the "T" badge is left alone.

Lets see how the market responds to it.

@GTO, One observation / question, why we have left out the TATA Indica Vista & the FIAT Grande Punto from the comparison when we have taken i20 also in consideration ?

I hope they will be included later for a better overall picture of the options available in the segment.

[SPIKE ARRESTOR]

Toyota is very good with hiding / masking panel gaps. Lots of things to learn from the Japanese, I liked that. On the whole an excellent review, I doubt whether Toyota guys would know so much details about the car.

Spike

[SILVERWOOD]

Originally Posted by adentist

Excellent review GTO. Though the car looks crappy by TBHP standards, everyone knows this is going to sell like hotcakes. Indians can't resist a Toyota at this price point.

Yes, driving a Toyota would be a dream for many Indians and Liva promises to fulfill that.

Toyota should also expand its dealership network in tier 3 cities.