[Inquisitive]

Congratulations Desertfox on your new purchase. Enjoy the car. It is truly a lot better car than what its price would suggest. Happy motoring!!

[Inquisitive]

@Desertfox

Can you please update on the FE of Liva? I know yours is brand new but my 1 month old Liva that has about 2K kms on the odo are giving about 11-12kmpl. Just checking with your experience.

[desertfox]

Once the running in is complete after the first service at 1000 km it should give a fuel average of about 14 kmpl.

It all depends on the urban driving conditions and traffic, which is severe in Calcutta as well now. An average to 12 kmpl is OK I guess, I am not aware of the exact traffic in your daily drive lane.

As for me I have just filled a 1000 Rs. worth of fuel in it and driven it hardly 100 KM in all, will let you know of the FE later.

[DwarkaDelhiWala]

My Liva (petrol, Feb 2012) has started giving only 9Km per Lt.

Driving conditions and driver have remained same.

Today I've had it tested by galaxy Toyota (Moti Nagar, Delhi) and they says "Average Testing Done with AVG instrument..... During Road Test Avg Found 14.40 KPL...)" - .

The low average started after first service. Before that it was in range of 13-14 Km/Lt.

Any suggestions. I'm planning to sell off the Liva.

[AUTO_CRAZY]

Fuel mileage , varies from person to person based on where and how we use the car . So mileage cannot be compared from one user to another . Needless to say if the traffic is heavy then the mileage will be 10 to 12 in live . On a high way it may give 16 ton18 . And there are no adjustments to be done like the old carb vehicles. New vehicle all are controlled by ECU, so there is nothing to adjust.

Sorry forgot to add a point. As the manufacturing processes a improving , there is less need of vehicle engine RUN IN needed. So there will be less improvement in mileage after 1000 Kms etc .

[condor]

Originally Posted by DwarkaDelhiWala

Today I've had it tested by galaxy Toyota (Moti Nagar, Delhi) and they says "Average Testing Done with AVG instrument..... During Road Test Avg Found 14.40 KPL...)" - .

Were you in the car when they tested the FE ?

My experience with the testing is that the A.S.S will typically get into topmost possible gear at the lowest possible speed, and they will also choose a road that has lesser traffic. With such a combination, the FE is bound to show values.

What is important is that the testing be done on average traffic conditions, and simulate the regular driving that you experience. After all, you have reported a drop in the FE, in your normal driving environment / conditions. Then why should they test in some other environment/ conditions

[DwarkaDelhiWala]

Originally Posted by condor

Were you in the car when they tested the FE ?

My experience with the testing is that the A.S.S will typically get into topmost possible gear at the lowest possible speed, and they will also choose a road that has lesser traffic. With such a combination, the FE is bound to show values.

What is important is that the testing be done on average traffic conditions, and simulate the regular driving that you experience. After all, you have reported a drop in the FE, in your normal driving environment / conditions. Then why should they test in some other environment/ conditions

.
Yes Condor. That's how they tested - in topmost gear and at lowest possible speed on road with lesser traffic. I was in the car.

My driving conditions (roads, traffic etc. are pretty much same for last few years.) They will test only where they like. When i asked them to test on some 'regular' traffic roads (like Patel Nagar road to Shankar Road), they refused and said that then average will be only 9-9.5 !

My 6 year old Honda City Zx gives more average than Liva on same route as i've stopped using Liva because of FE.

(How i measure average ? - I fill up tank till auto cut off, set mileage meter to zero, drive till the tank empty light blinks, agin fill up the tank till auto cut, note the petrol litres filled and Kilometers driven)

[condor]

Originally Posted by DwarkaDelhiWala

When i asked them to test on some 'regular' traffic roads (like Patel Nagar road to Shankar Road), they refused and said that then average will be only 9-9.5 !

Your method to test FE (regular) is fine.

I have been thru the FE testing once, and when they did it their way, I insisted to do the driving myself. The logic is that, with my car, and my driving, my FE has dropped from it's normal values. If they have done any changes, then the only way to test it is with my driving only.

Try and escalate to Toyota.

[DwarkaDelhiWala]

Originally Posted by condor

Your method to test FE (regular) is fine.

I have been thru the FE testing once, and when they did it their way, I insisted to do the driving myself. The logic is that, with my car, and my driving, my FE has dropped from it's normal values. If they have done any changes, then the only way to test it is with my driving only.

Try and escalate to Toyota.

Thanks Condor. While testing, stoppage at just one red light dropped average to 11.5 Km/Lt. Infact, two more Liva owners were having appointed on same day for testing the average.

I've a friend, working in same hospital with me, who recommended Liva to me. He also says that it runs for about 325 Km on full tank. Both of us just drive from our home to hospital in morning and back around 4PM ( not in rush hour). His Liva also started giving low average after first service.

It took me whole day off from work to just get the average checked. They called me at 12 Noon but started at 3PM finishing at 5PM.

Escalating will mean losing more productive hours. And as you have mentioned nothing can be done since there is an ECU installed, i guess it would be best to sell it off and bear with loss of money.

[condor]

Originally Posted by DwarkaDelhiWala

Escalating will mean losing more productive hours. And as you have mentioned nothing can be done since there is an ECU installed, i guess it would be best to sell it off and bear with loss of money.

Looks like the dealer is not able to give you time to test out things & search for a resolution. Just because a vehicle has a ECU does not impose restrictions on the performance a car that it prevents finding a resolution ot problems.

Speaking of ECU, reset it & try. Disconnect the negative terminal and leave it for a while,

Did you any chance change your fuel station ? or has the tire air pressure reduced ?

Btw, I dont remember saying that nothing can be done becuase a ECU is installed.

Dont give up, yet.

[DwarkaDelhiWala]

Originally Posted by condor

....Btw, I dont remember saying that nothing can be done becuase a ECU is installed.....

My fault. You didn't say that. The person from dealer side who did the test said it.... " In any case we can't do much. We can only adjust clutch etc...."

I get petrol from same two stations only. Air pressure is always maintained with help of Michelin MN-12279 Tire Gauge, being not sure of gauges installed at fuel pumps. So no error on that front. The car has done 13,000Km till date.

I'll try resetting the ECU with help of an expert mechanic. Thanks for suggestion.

[thoma]

Originally Posted by DwarkaDelhiWala

I'll try resetting the ECU with help of an expert mechanic.

As @condor suggested, just unscrew the negative of the battery and keep it disconnected for 30 minutes. After that go for a sedate (bare minimum throttle at any condition), traffic less, medium length drive. And see what she returns on an approximate.

i guess it would be best to sell it off and bear with loss of money.

Beware of other cars too. Not many petrol hatches return decent figures in traffic. Figo, Beat and new i10 are typical examples.

Since you used to get 13kmpl in the same conditions earlier, one has to suspect that some change has happened to the car. You may need to pester your ASC to get to the bottom of it.

[DwarkaDelhiWala]

Originally Posted by thoma

........
Since you used to get 13kmpl in the same conditions earlier, one has to suspect that some change has happened to the car. You may need to pester your ASC to get to the bottom of it.

Thanks Thoma. I would try to escalate it with Toyota Bharat.

It would be pertinent to describe here how the dealer tests average.

Two guys came for the test. They attached one instrument to the fuel pipe near engine and carried one digital odometer type instrument in cabin. One of them drove the car (didn't allow me to drive) from Moti Nagar crossing (the showroom of Galaxy Toyota) to the Pusa Gate crossing. This road has moderate traffic and plenty of red lights. Hence they did not turn on the instrument. When i asked him why he did not switch on the instrument earlier, he replied that it takes some time to get the air out of instruments

Once they turned toward Inderpuri side (i know you are in Kerala but some one who is in Delhi might find it interesting) - the road which is almost empty and no red lights - they switched on the instrument. He drove in between 40-50 KM/Hr, 5th gear and almost on left side of road. Meter showed average of 14.4 KML. Then one traffic light came and FE dropped to 11 KML. After that he took a U-turn and switched off the instrument as soon as we entered main Patel Nagar Road.

When i asked him to switch on the instrument as that road was the 'normal' driving condition on which i was getting 13 KML, he replied that this was not as per their test conditions.

[GTO]

Saravanan Mohan drops the following email. Thanks for sharing!

Please add following information to Liva thread. This will be useful for me as well as to forum members. I am owner of Liva GD(SP) from Oct 2012. The vehicle was due to 20,000km service and i have approached Lanson ECR branch for the same. Apart from service , I had problem with Non-OEM horn ( Bosch windtone , fitted through Lanson accessories at the time of delivery ) .

I was told that Toyota is not recommending fitment of Non-OEM horn in air-bag enabled vehicles recently through a circular. Lanson accessory shop has removed additional horn package for all airbag enabled vehicles. When I have asked for circular, I was told that they cannot show the circular for official reasons. Technical reason they have provided as follows " High current used in Non-OEM horn wire , which passes through spiral sensor / activator for airbag in steering horn pad may damage the airbag activator.

Toyota has studied the airbag issues coming up and has recently recommended to remove additional horn packages from dealer accessory shop". Lanson may very well taking me for a ride , but I tried correlating this information through multiple resources in the same branch at different time - SA, Mechanic, Accessory person, Service Manager etc .

I will try to get confirmation from Harsha as well in chennai. The above information may be confirmed by form members like amalji who has good relationship with dealers. Also, this may be additional information for members who will buy Toyota airbag enabled vehicles with additional horn to exercise caution.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by GTO

Saravanan Mohan drops the following email. Thanks for sharing!

I think this has more to do with the way these accessory shops function.
Its foolhardy to put a higher power horn on the same circuit.
If you want anything higher power, you use a relay. That way, the existing circuit just takes the switching current which is miniscule, and all the driving current passes through the Relay.
However, most accessory shops or outfits do not use relay at all. If a relay was used there would be absolutely no issues. Infact, then the horn circuit current after install would actually be less than the current with stock horns!