[Munish myetios]

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

Thanks swiftnfurious, drmohitg and VeluM for your quick response to my last minute query. I was really in a dilemma at the last moment and your candid views helped me take the right decision.

Yes, I got my Toyota Etios Diesel VD (Vermillion Red) delivery on Oct 31. Had my first 30 km drive to office this morning. Will write in detail about my experiences in my own user review in a couple of months' time.

Thanks once again for all your support!

What is your experience of Toyota ETIOS after 17 days of ownership. Fuel economy, Noise and vibrations, rattling noise from the left side of dashboard, interior plastic, weather gaskets on the door, brakes, pickup etc.

[vinay_tw]

Thanks for reminding me. As I mentioned in my previous post, I will be writing a full review once I complete 2 months. For now, here are my short answers to your questions:

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

Fuel economy

I measured the mileage on my very first top-up to top-up and the mileage has not been all that great - just 15.5 kmpl in Bangalore city driving with intermittent AC on.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

Noise and vibrations, rattling noise from the left side of dashboard

Surprisingly, no noise and vibrations, despite being a diesel vehicle. I am sure Toyota has taken some measures to reduce the noise. You can see thick dampeners underfoot in the driver's cabin. Maybe because of this and other measures, the sound of the engine inside the cabin seems bearable and almost as good as my earlier petrol WagonR. The outside noise seems bearable. This is based on my comparison with Skoda Fabia and other diesel vehicles at engine start. I haven't observed any rattling noise on the left side of the dashboard as mentioned by you. Also, no vibrations at all at the gear stalk or the steering wheel. Neat job of noise and vibration reduction by Toyota!

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

interior plastic

I didn't have an issue with the interior plastic when I saw the vehicle first and I am quite comfortable with the interior looks now. No complaints there!

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

weather gaskets on the door

From the day I bought the vehicle, for about a week or so, Bangalore experienced continuous evening rains. This provided me a great opportunity to test how the vehicle survives the lack of weather gaskets in the rains as I had read a lot about the missing weather gaskets. To my surprise, I couldn't find any issue with water seepage anywhere from the doors. The only problem is the cleaning as the surface area for washing has increased on the internals, which tend to get dirty after a rains.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

brakes

Brakes are spot-on and confidence inspiring. The overall stability of the vehicle at high speeds is good as well.

Originally Posted by Munish myetios

pickup

Pickup has not been great and I really didn't expect anything more than that. The pickup suffers when the vehicle in full AC slows down in 5th gear. I don't know if this is a diesel thing, but this is definitely different from my petrol hatchback. I need to ask the Toyota service if this is normal.

Thatz all for now. Read more when I write my full review.

Best regards,

Vinay

[amalji]

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

I measured the mileage on my very first top-up to top-up and the mileage has not been all that great - just 15.5 kmpl in Bangalore city driving with intermittent AC on.

I too got similar mileage on my etios diesel. Driving conditions - mix of city and highway in the ratio 7:3 with full ac on. Mostly shifting at 2500 to 2800 rpm.

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

Pickup has not been great and I really didn't expect anything more than that. The pickup suffers when the vehicle in full AC slows down in 5th gear. I don't know if this is a diesel thing, but this is definitely different from my petrol hatchback. I need to ask the Toyota service if this is normal.

That's not because of lack of power. It's because of the tallness of the 5th gear on the etios diesel. This character is very different from a wagon r. It's optimized for cruising from 90 kmph to 140 kmph. if you need power, keep the vehicle on 4th gear till 85 kmph and then shift to 5th. The 5th gear on the etios diesel is hypothetically similar to 6th gear on fiesta ( if it did have a 6th )

I like this gear ratio because it makes the fun last for more time once you start cruising above 100 kmph. This is very relevant in diesel engines which runs out of steam faster than a petrol engine.

If you are someone who drives at 100kmph steady on highways, it makes the engine very relaxed @ just 2000 rpms. And you are still in the peak torque band which lasts till 2400 rpm making overtaking at speeds above 100 kmph a breeze.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

I don't know if this is a diesel thing, but this is definitely different from my petrol hatchback.

Since, you are more used to petrol cars, just wanted to give you a few tips to make your driving easier.

1. Petrol cars have useable torque for a longer range. For eg: you can work the engine between 1500 rpm and 6000 rpm on an esteem. In diesel, even though the torque is much higher than a petrol vehicle, the range for which you get that torque is low. For eg, in case of etios, if you need quick acceleration, you need to keep the engine rpm between 1800 and 3000 rpm. This is very much possible, if you shift your gears carefully. The general rule for etios is shift gears at 1500 rpm, if you need to drive in a relaxed manner. If you need a peppy drive, shift the gears at 2800 rpm, so that the vehicle falls into the peak torque band yet again.

2. One difficulty you will face with etios diesel is the harder clutch. But you don't need to be on half clutch for city drives and bumpy roads on diesel vehicles unlike In the case of a petrol vehicle. You can roll the vehicle on first gear through bumpy roads without clutch and accelerator. This is a unique feature of diesel engines. Once you get used to this, you won't be using clutch much.

Ps: in case, you don't have an rpm meter on your vehicle, you can do a mapping between speed and rpm on each gears using an etios diesel with the rpm meters. In case, you don't have access to one, I'll post it when I write my ownership review in december.

[vinay_tw]

Thanks amalji. These tips are really useful. Being used to petrol vehicles for about 10 years now, the diesel car feels altogether different.

You are right. One of the biggest issues I am facing with Etios diesel is the hard clutch. In city traffic, especially in peak hour bumper-to-bumper traffic, I tend to use the clutch a lot in 1st and 2nd gears. Due to the hard clutch, this type of driving is tiresome. Now that you say the diesel vehicles roll without half-clutch in first gear, I am going to try that option. Is a similar clutch-less driving possible even in 2nd gear? I have tried to do so in second gear, but have seen the engine going off. This is one thing that I need to get used to.

And the other aspect about changing gears. I need to get used to observing the rpm meter during gear changes. I will try and implement your suggestions on when to change gears for relaxed and peppy drives. Is this true even with the AC on?

BTW, I do have an rpm meter on the dial.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

Is a similar clutch-less driving possible even in 2nd gear? I have tried to do so in second gear, but have seen the engine going off.

If it were me, I will never try to move the vehicle in 2nd gear, unless I have all those torque available from nearly 1500 rpms. When you move a car in 2nd gear from stand still, you will need to give quite a lot of accelerator input till you can actually move the vehicle. I always felt that the engine is being strained when you do this and clutch could take a hit on it's life. I am not sure on the technical side of this - some experts can share their views and knowledge.

To be frank, even on speed breakers, I move to 1st gear and drive over - personally I feel that I have better control over the vehicle & the speed when I do this.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by amalji

I too got similar mileage on my etios diesel. Driving conditions - mix of city and highway in the ratio 7:3 with full ac on. Mostly shifting at 2500 to 2800 rpm.

Mileage update for trip from Kochi to Trivandrum and back ( around 450 kms ) = 18 kmpl ( 17.9 kmpl to be precise )
Odo reading after the trip = 2815 kms

Will add route description and driving style since I believe that mileage calculation is invalid without this information.

Route Description
1) Kakkanad to Oachira ( around 120 kms ) NH47 consistent speed between 80 kmph and 120 kmph since, the roads were empty in the early morning.
2) Oachira to Attingal ( around 70kms ) through city traffic and high traffic 2-line highways speeds between 60 kmph and 100 kmph
3) Attingal to Chirayinkil and from Chirayinkil to Trivandrum ( 45 kms ) through country roads mostly ( speeds mostly between 20 kmph and 70 kmph )
4) Trivandrum to Oachira ( 100 kms ) through busy NH 47 at night. Speeds between 40 kmph to 90 kmph
5) Oachira to Kakkanad ( 120 kms ) through empty roads early morning cruising mostly between 80kmph and 150 kmph

Driving style

1) Engine rpm mostly in the range of 1500 to 3000 rpm.
2) Quick acceleration by using the turbo range during overtaking.
3) Mostly sedate driving when entering into city traffic.
4) Braking is frequent thanks to the combination of high traffic highways, 2 line-traffic of highways and lack of bye-pass in towns - Attingal, Kollam and Aleppey

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

Thanks amalji. These tips are really useful. Being used to petrol vehicles for about 10 years now, the diesel car feels altogether different.

After going through the same phase when I first drove a diesel car, I can relate well with your issues.

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

Now that you say the diesel vehicles roll without half-clutch in first gear, I am going to try that option. Is a similar clutch-less driving possible even in 2nd gear? I have tried to do so in second gear, but have seen the engine going off. This is one thing that I need to get used to.

You can do that on 2nd gear as well, but the speed of the car should be atleast 10kmph for you to do that. If it's anything less, engine may knock and/or stall. So, for any speed less than 10kmph, use your 1st gear to do the 'rolling'. If you need to accelerate, use feather touch on the accelerator and once you reach 10kmph, shift to 2nd, release the clutch slowly and the car will roll @ 10kmph speed without any accelerator input.

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

And the other aspect about changing gears. I need to get used to observing the rpm meter during gear changes. I will try and implement your suggestions on when to change gears for relaxed and peppy drives. Is this true even with the AC on?

If you want to experience the peppiness of the engine, shift to 2nd gear, take the engine rpm to around 1500 first, then push the accelerator pedal hard ( maybe 50% accelerator ), watch the rpm meter climb and 'feel' the difference post 1800 rpm until 2400 rpm, where you get a flat peak torque of 170Nm. Try the same on 3rd gear as well. When you do all this, make sure that you are on open roads without much traffic. Once, you get used to the car, you won't need the help from rpm meter. You will do all of this automatically. Human brain is the best ECU available.

PS: It's recommended that you get the help of a friend to observe the rpm readings when you do all this. The driver's attention should ideally be on the road always.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

If it were me, I will never try to move the vehicle in 2nd gear, unless I have all those torque available from nearly 1500 rpms. When you move a car in 2nd gear from stand still, you will need to give quite a lot of accelerator input till you can actually move the vehicle. I always felt that the engine is being strained when you do this and clutch could take a hit on it's life.

To be frank, even on speed breakers, I move to 1st gear and drive over - personally I feel that I have better control over the vehicle & the speed when I do this.

+100. I know people who consider it as an ego issue and try to move the car on 2nd gear! We should never ever do that, if we love the car and want it to last more. Me and my mother never tries to use clutch to compensate for a higher gear.
Result - "We've never heard of the term - clutch replacement ever in 12 years and 1.5 lakh kms of driving together. Engine stays fresh as well"

Originally Posted by AutoIndian

That is quite reassuring. The Etios (P) is quite torquey & the least weighing sedan, hence can understand that it can pull effortlessly. However does this hold true for the Etios (D) as well? Moroever when there are 5 adults & boot full luggage does the rear end sag like that of a Dezire?

I got a chance to do just that. Cruising never felt an issue at all. The car was accelerating smooth. I was driving between 80 kmph and 120 kmph mostly with full load ( 5 passengers and a completely jam packed boot ). The only reason, I didn't take it further was because my parents were with me.

[vinay_tw]

Originally Posted by amalji

Mileage update for trip from Kochi to Trivandrum and back ( around 450 kms ) = 18 kmpl ( 17.9 kmpl to be precise )

Wow! Thatz amazing! Nice to know that the Etios diesel has lived upto its promise of higher mileage!

Originally Posted by amalji

You can do that on 2nd gear as well, but the speed of the car should be atleast 10kmph for you to do that.

I had an appointment with the Toyota service advisor today (on completion of 1200 kms) and I learnt quite a bit about how the Diesel engine responds at various speeds and rpms. This is what I learnt. The etios diesel has an idling rpm of 700-800 rpm. So, when the vehicle is moved into first or second gear, the vehicle can still be kept in motion by releasing the clutch pedal, as long as the engine rpm doesn't go below the 700 rpm mark. If this is followed, I guess the clutch-less driving should be possible. From what you say, I think 10km/h corresponds to 700-800 rpm. So, that's a useful thing to know.

Originally Posted by amalji

I know people who consider it as an ego issue and try to move the car on 2nd gear! We should never ever do that, if we love the car and want it to last more. Me and my mother never tries to use clutch to compensate for a higher gear.
Result - "We've never heard of the term - clutch replacement ever in 12 years and 1.5 lakh kms of driving together. Engine stays fresh as well"

That's good to know. My problem is not so much of ego as it is of aching left foot. With a harder clutch, I always tend to go onto higher gears as soon as I get some free space. This may also be due to my petrol driving habit too.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

This is what I learnt. The etios diesel has an idling rpm of 700-800 rpm. So, when the vehicle is moved into first or second gear, the vehicle can still be kept in motion by releasing the clutch pedal, as long as the engine rpm doesn't go below the 700 rpm mark. If this is followed, I guess the clutch-less driving should be possible. From what you say, I think 10km/h corresponds to 700-800 rpm. So, that's a useful thing to know.

I guess 900 rpms is what corresponds to 10 kmph. I don't remember exactly though.

Originally Posted by vinay_tw

That's good to know. My problem is not so much of ego as it is of aching left foot. With a harder clutch, I always tend to go onto higher gears as soon as I get some free space. This may also be due to my petrol driving habit too.

I know yours is not ego for sure. I was talking about some very experienced drivers whom I know.

It's ok to shift early, if you need relaxed acceleration and you don't anticipate a down shift shortly. If you have to down shift again, then it becomes counter productive as you will be using your clutch more frequently.

Once you get used to the clutch ( probably might take a few 1000 kms ), the muscles in your leg will automatically adjust to harder clutch of the diesel vehicle. I've reached that stage now. The logic is similar to increasing your weights in gym. First few days, it will be a bit of strain. After that, your body adjusts by building more muscles.

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by amalji

Ps: in case, you don't have an rpm meter on your vehicle, you can do a mapping between speed and rpm on each gears using an etios diesel with the rpm meters. In case, you don't have access to one, I'll post it when I write my ownership review in december.

Will appreciate your sharing this- will be useful to a a friend who is buying a Liva D that comes sans a tacho.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

Will appreciate your sharing this- will be useful to a a friend who is buying a Liva D that comes sans a tacho.

Sure, bro. I'll be going to Vellore this monday. So, I'll be covering 1200 kms in 2-3 days. Will do all the mapping during this time.

[RadiantKarma]

Had been wondering for a while as to if and when Etios would start finding favour with the taxi segment. Finally the wish(?!) has come true. Saw a white Etios with a cab number plate. No marks for guessing the variant - it was a G-D.

For taxi segment too, it should make for a good package - reasonable initial cost, class-leading FE, Toyota reliability and low long-term cost of ownership, ample space everywhere; and comfort and great driveability are bonuses.

[aaggoswami]

Yesterday, I TDed the Etios diesel. My observations :

1) The throttle response is slow till 2000 rpm.
2) After 2000 rpm its real torque, good for overtaking. Nice for a 1.4 low state of tune car.
3) Suspension is good.
4) Engine noise is way too much, specially when the engine is not warmed up.
5) Although the response is slow initially, its by no means bad. Better than Altis diesel
6) Space. This is virtue or Etios. More space than Altis. Me and dad, both adjusted front driver's seat. After adjustment, in Altis there was very little legroom. Where Etios had more space. Morevoer, the seat squab is longer in Etios. I rode in the rear seat for long for the first time.
7) That great little steering. One of the best.
8) Huge Boot.
9) High gearing = good cruising speed.

Negatives :
1) EuroNCAP rating not done. When we have car that are atleast based on cars already tested at EuroNCAP, I wonder why not Etios.

2) Door beading. Frankly, our K10 Waggie has better beadings. Not that water would enter, but more than that, I was really worried about insects. Munish's thread has really got me worried.

3) Few switches like headlight stalks and headlight adjuster, AC blower knob feel better in our Waggie.


Overall :
If Nissan Sunny Diesel has a tag comparable to Etios, Etios is doomed for looks and interiors. The car rather shrinks around you and good dynamics. Pedals placement is also spot on.

EDIT:
The diesel is feels slightly more stable on highway at high speeds.
Road and Tyre noise is lower in diesel, but engine noise is more than petrol

[Nitrous Power]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

2) Door beading. Frankly, our K10 Waggie has better beadings. Not that water would enter, but more than that, I was really worried about insects. Munish's thread has really got me worried.

I would sincerely request you to take a look on all Etios owner's ownership threads as well as what mods have stated in their test drive. None of the owner other than Munish has reported any water leakage or any kind of insects getting into the car.

I don't want to turn this thread to Pro Etios vs. Etios bashing but enough have been said regarding this issue and none of the owners have reported any such issues.

[koushik]

In the early october I have had used etios GD in Daporijo in Arunachal in a torrential rain for several days without facing any leakage problem.
I wish to mention one more point.I have used various types of Indian SUVs on the hilly roads of Arunachal Pradesh.In my view this is one of the best cars for hilly roads.It is as comfortable as if you are driving on a plane surface ! This could be perhaps because maximum engine torque is set at low rpm.
I have read at various places about too much engine noise.I am yet to notice that in my car.Those who have used diesel cars for long years would not agree with the engine noise issue.