[Mpower]

I am not interested in the punto, I would like to know from existing Liva Diesel owners if it can cruise at 100-130 kmph with ease.

Your life, your choice, but if I'm buying a car to do 130+ all the time, I would't want something that has a 'made-for-poor-countries' lightweight body whose safety rating is un-tested/un-undisclosed !!

Secondly Figo/Liva/Micra are all 8v engines which make them great city cars with zero lag but the 16V engines have more punch on highways.

Having said that, Liva is still a great city car.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by rrnsss

I am not interested in the punto, I would like to know from existing Liva Diesel owners if it can cruise at 100-130 kmph with ease.

130 kmph on the Liva is easily attainable. Swift will get to 130 kmph faster ( atleast a couple of seconds faster ) than the Liva no doubt. But, I would prefer driving the Liva at that speed any day compared to Swift for one simple reason - the braking. It's simply the best in class and is leagues ahead of those in the Swift. It will offer you peace of mind at such high speeds.

PS: I use an Etios Diesel myself. But, I do take my mother's Liva for a spin as well. The car can stay on 140 kmph all day long, thanks to that tall gearing. But, 100 to 120 kmph is its sweet spot as @tsk pointed out.

[thoma]

Originally Posted by Mpower

I would't want something that has a 'made-for-poor-countries' lightweight body whose safety rating is un-tested/un-undisclosed !!

Secondly Figo/Liva/Micra are all 8v engines which make them great city cars with zero lag but the 16V engines have more punch on highways.

Hi Mpower, a bit off-topic, but the layman in me would love to know a bit more about your comments. Not for contradicting, but for gaining knowledge about the cars in the market.

1) Could you share with us which cars (I'm interested in hatchbacks mainly) have an un-tested/un-undisclosed safety rating. I am seriously unaware of this or had not cared much to check. Or any authentic site to look up this?

2) I guess safety rating is mandatory in many other countries, but not in India. Please correct me on this.

3) Does the safety rating given on a model in another country ultimately hold true for the same model given in India. Not on paper, but in effect. I meant, do the manufacturer follow the same specs, metal gauge etc etc.

4) I guess by more punch on the highway you meant that 16 valves can breath better than 8 valves. But I can't guess anything for the first part. Is lesser valves better for no lag and city drives? Please enlighten my mechanical mind.

These are few things the common man including me tend to overlook in a purchase - the safety ratings and the number of valves. Even though looks and price overpowers my decision many times, from the next time, I will definitely find out (at the very least, which might influence decisions, who knows) such aspects too.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by thoma

Hi Mpower, a bit off-topic, but the layman in me would love to know a bit more about your comments. Not for contradicting, but for gaining knowledge about the cars in the market.

1) Could you share with us which cars (I'm interested in hatchbacks mainly) have an un-tested/un-undisclosed safety rating. I am seriously unaware of this or had not cared much to check. Or any authentic site to look up this?

We have a thread in team-bhp on it - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...old-india.html

Euro NCAP is not valid for India. But, manufacturers use it as means to market their cars in India. for eg:-, even the low-end i20 models without the airbags sports a sticker of 5 star safety rating! But, some of the ratings in NCAP can be used to gauge the overall safety of the car like the front impact rating.

Originally Posted by thoma

2) I guess safety rating is mandatory in many other countries, but not in India. Please correct me on this.

You are right on this. And that's the reason why the Etios ( Made for India car ) doesn't have an NCAP rating.

Originally Posted by thoma

3) Does the safety rating given on a model in another country ultimately hold true for the same model given in India. Not on paper, but in effect. I meant, do the manufacturer follow the same specs, metal gauge etc etc.

Not necessarily. And it's not always the metal gauge or the heaviness of the car that decides how safe the car is. It depends more on where the shock is absorbed and how much of safety features, the car is equipped with like ABS, EBD, ESP, Airbags etc.

Originally Posted by thoma

4) I guess by more punch on the highway you meant that 16 valves can breath better than 8 valves. But I can't guess anything for the first part. Is lesser valves better for no lag and city drives? Please enlighten my mechanical mind.

More than the design used or technology used what matters the most for a Diesel hatch is the output -

The torque per ton available at the push of the pedal at any given rpm.
Then the gear ratios. Without proper gear ratios suited for your road condition, power cannot be properly utilized.
Then the braking distance, because you are not going to use the power as frequently, if you are not confident about the braking
Then the reliability of technology used. Both, the D-4D and DDiS ( aka multijet aka quadrajet ) are reliable Diesel engine technologies.

Then you need to consider other factors like mileage, reliability of the engine, high speed stability, comfort etc.

Originally Posted by thoma

These are few things the common man including me tend to overlook in a purchase - the safety ratings and the number of valves. Even though looks and price overpowers my decision many times, from the next time, I will definitely find out (at the very least, which might influence decisions, who knows) such aspects too.

Check out the torque per ton and PS per ton and the rpm range over which the peak torque is available than on how many valves an engine has. Also check out how much of a mileage impact the higher torque to weight ratio has on the vehicles you compare.
This approach gives a better picture of the capability of the engine.
Also, check out the torque generated per 1000 cc of the engine. This will give you an idea about how much stress you put on the engine. A higher value implies more stress on the engine. But, that could also translate into better mileage/power depending on what the manufacturer gives priority for.

[download2live]

White Liva's are now common in Bangalore doing Taxi service. Surprisingly I am not seeing that many Etios Taxis. Maybe there are many alternatives like Verito, Dzire tour, Indigo. Same cannot be said about hatchback segment where Indica is ruling the roost.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by thoma

1) Could you share with us which cars (I'm interested in hatchbacks mainly) have an un-tested/un-undisclosed safety rating. I am seriously unaware of this or had not cared much to check. Or any authentic site to look up this?

2) I guess safety rating is mandatory in many other countries, but not in India. Please correct me on this.

3) Does the safety rating given on a model in another country ultimately hold true for the same model given in India. Not on paper, but in effect. I meant, do the manufacturer follow the same specs, metal gauge etc etc.

4) I guess by more punch on the highway you meant that 16 valves can breath better than 8 valves. But I can't guess anything for the first part. Is lesser valves better for no lag and city drives? Please enlighten my mechanical mind.

1) Older cheaper cars like Alto, Santro, Eon, Rio but its shocking that a 2010 design by global #1 is un-tested. Check that thread amalji shows

2)Correct

3) Not ultimately, but its still a very good assumption. You have to make sure things like airbag count, seat belt pretensioners, neck restraints etc have not been deleted. The body structure and crumple zones will be the same

4)Yes and Yes. Its #valves and size of turbo that determine city drivability

[thoma]

Thanks amalji and Mpower. Okay, is it that a bigger turbo will need more exhaust pressure build up to run it? And I'm still confused on how exactly lesser number of valves translates to better stop-go/city/lower end driveability.

Originally Posted by Mpower

Its #valves and size of turbo that determine city drivability

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by Chitta Pradhan

...My 6 geared Verna 1.6 CRDI does 100 kmph @ approx 1800 rpm. But some how I feel, I get maximum FE at 80 kmph when the engine spins at around 1500-1600 rpm. Do you think for extracting max. FE we should have an eye on odo & not speedo? Every week end I have a drive of 350 km., thus the query.

Thanks

After replying I noticed that the discussion is off-topic on a Liva thread. Hence I have moved it to Verna thread. Link here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post2844255

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Mpower

1)
3) Not ultimately, but its still a very good assumption. You have to make sure things like airbag count, seat belt pretensioners, neck restraints etc have not been deleted. The body structure and crumple zones will be the same

4)Yes and Yes. Its #valves and size of turbo that determine city drivability

Not always. For example, the 4x2 ARIA has some structural changes which rob it of its safety rating.
That said, if you are looking for a safe car, make sure you have ABS and Airbags. Most modern cars sold in India with these features are very safe.

[rrnsss]

Took an extended drive of the Etios Diesel. Not a Liva. Drove it around 50 KM. Was totally satisfied with the car. Nothing to complain about except for the noisy engine, that is rather irritating at idling speeds. Just like my Innova, it is a boringly good car. And I love cars that are boringly good. The Etios was in no way sluggish at high way speeds and found it to be adequate. I am sure the Liva will be the same if not better.

Planning to make advance payment on Monday (auspicious day) .

Thank you all for advising me on this car.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by rrnsss

Took an extended drive of the Etios Diesel. Not a Liva. Drove it around 50 KM. Was totally satisfied with the car. Nothing to complain about except for the noisy engine, that is rather irritating at idling speeds. Just like my Innova, it is a boringly good car. And I love cars that are boringly good. The Etios was in no way sluggish at high way speeds and found it to be adequate. I am sure the Liva will be the same if not better.

Planning to make advance payment on Monday (auspicious day) .

Thank you all for advising me on this car.

Congrats on the sensible buying decision. Etios is for people who care more about practicality.

And yeah, it's a fun to drive car due to its unique "flat peak torque" from 1800 till 2400 rpms, sensible gear ratios, negligible turbo lag, ergonomic driving position and the small steering wheel. Add to that the best in class braking ( by a long margin ) and superb suspensions. And for the record, Liva Diesel feels more peppy than the Etios Diesel ( probably due to the illusion of speed created by the shorter wheel base )

Regarding the higher NVH on idle, you will get used to it in a week or 2.

[rrnsss]

Have booked a Liva Diesel GD(SP)/White with ABS and AIRBAGS.

Drove almost all the vehicles as my budget was upto 13 Lakhs. Also planning to keep this car till it's wheels fall off.

In the last few days tested the following cars.

1) Ford Fiesta Diesel - Great car, Loved it!! but not willing to trust Ford's availability of parts for Fiesta.

2) Linea - Foot well is narrower than the seat and found the driving position to be uncomfortable. Plus not confident about fiat as a brand.

3) Sunny - D . Found the CAAAR to be long , but it is not wide enough for me to sit comfortably

4) Manza - Found the power window strip pushing my right thigh in very irritating and nothing to hem in my left thigh. The door opening levers were very badly fitted in the display model I saw.

5) Honda City- LOVELY LOVELY CAR.... I really wish I could loose about 30 Kgs to be able to get in and out of it easily. But what a superb easy friendly car.

6) Micra - No ABS in diesel , not an option.

7) Honda Brio - Lovely car , but seems too small for the highways. Plus I dont like music system with out bluetooth

8) I 20 - Nice car , but not enough leg room in the rear once I sit in front. Plus I am not a fan of gizmos. Also rear leg room when I am driving is very less.

9) VW POLO - Lack of space for me to sit in and drive. Too much boot space and not enough for humans.

10) FIGO - Love the car, excellent package of space and practical features. Love the rear seat room. Ford probably will stand behind the figo for the next 8-10 yrs, Was a very close contender to Liva.

11) Toyota Liva D - Except for the lack of outright performance of the engine, the car is lovely, very simple and elegant. Lack of music system lets me choose some thing that suits my taste. I do not know what is AUX IN or how to use an ipod. As weird as this may sound, the lack of gadgetry is a huge attraction to me ( the Figo lost out on this aspect)

I trust toyota will stand behind their product for at least the next 7 or 8 years. ABS/EBD. Air bags. Stable at highway speeds. Good braking. cavernous space. Reliable engine. But if I have to point out one reason why I booked Liva, it is...

Liva has all the things that matter to me and none that don't matter. It is such a simple, unassuming and elegant car. It suits my state of mind.


I am exchanging my Old 2010 Swift D Ldi (25K Km) and Lanson gave me a decent price. Also they gave me reasonable discounts for being a repeat cutomer.

[G-BoleroBoy]

To help my friend decide test drove Liva and Brio back to back. iva ride quality i found to be far far ahead. Brio was unsettled and rear wheels where bumping up on even small speed breakers. Liva took bad/worst roads with potholes and what not with utmost ease.
It was Honda dealer's attitude that made me sick and walk out - while Toyota dealer attitude has what made the day. voted Liva for all good reasons.

[rrnsss]

I am curious if we can add an RPM meter to the LIVA diesel ( a small 52 mm one like in Ritz) . RPM meters are driven by the alternator usually. I was wondering if any one has tried this?

[kaush666]

Originally Posted by rrnsss

I am curious if we can add an RPM meter to the LIVA diesel ( a small 52 mm one like in Ritz) . RPM meters are driven by the alternator usually. I was wondering if any one has tried this?

+1

I have the same doubt here actually. Is it possible to add an aftermarket tachometer to the Liva Diesel or even if the speedo of the Etios D if possbile. Would be of great use. I would also like to know if the Vx version's steering wheel is retrofittable into the G-D variant.

Cheers,
K