[VeluM]

Originally Posted by Carb

Ever since then, the diesel mills have earned a lot respect in the hearts of the enthusiasts. (Imagine a fuss free engine after a million kms )

The vista diesel comes with a FIAT engine and is rumoured to be quite good.

The only reason for the reputation of the D4D engine is it's reliability. The Fiat engine is a much better one, though - and this is not a rumour.

A million kms is 10lakh kms. I'm not sure if I've read about any engine in Indian conditions remaining fuss-free after that. Experts please clarify?

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

Thanks for reading through, & awaiting some suggestions.

As for your options, I think reliability is your primary concern. That being the case, I'd suggest the Liva. Its engine may be old-school, but it is undoubtedly reliable, as is the vehicle itself. However, a Test drive of each of your options might reveal that the Figo is the most fun & the Vista the most gadget laden and luxurious (?) of the three. Decide only after test driving all, though.

[indivic]

Originally Posted by Carb

The D-4D engines of Toyota began their stint in India under the hood of Qualis. The fuss-free experience of the owners turned the engine into a legend. Ever since then, the diesel mills have earned a lot respect in the hearts of the enthusiasts. (Imagine a fuss free engine after a million kms )

I think D-4D as a "brand" was coined when Toyota moved to common rail, the popularity or the aura about D-4D mainly comes from the Hilux and the LC

The first D-4D engine in India was from Innova onwards.

[ethanhunt123]

If you want a car with a diesel heart, reliable engine and widespread ***, then hard to look beyond Ritz & Vista. Both Maruti/TATA have the widest *** and that DDiS/MJD is India's national engine Liva while has a Toyota D4-D engine reeks of cost cutting ! Your engine might last but the remaining parts of your car might not !

[blackfire_9]

Thank you all for the replies, I guess a TD is in order now. Though reading about cost-cutting in Liva is making me inclined towards the Vista more & more. However, the only reason I am still hanging onto Liva is because it's a Toyota.

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

Hi all,

One of the posts above, speak of the D-4D engine as "famed". I am not too familiar with the reasons as to why it should be so, but request fellow members here to share some insights into how this technology/brand of engines from Toyota are so well-renowned.

Hi blackfire,

First of all, my apologies if my usage of the term 'famed' ended up creating a halo around that D-4D engine. Don't think there is anything great about the technology. D-4D is understandably derived from Direct Injection 4-Stroke Common Rail Diesel Engine. But when the engine is named D-4D, one knows that it's a proven engine from Toyota. And hence, the assurance of lakhs of kms of trouble-free run. That's it. period.

Also, when it comes to diesel mills in hatchbacks, if somebody's primary concern is touring, which amongst a Vista, Figo or Liva should be considered?
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Thanks for reading through, & awaiting some suggestions.

From the three cars you've mentioned, I'd buy Figo for its amazing road manners (drive it to experience it!), driveability and Ford's build quality. Vista for Tata's service network and sturdy build quality. For the rest, it'd be Liva - for FE, long-term reliability, hassle-free ownership, effortless driveability etc. For someone like you, who wants to keep a car as long as it runs, it may also mean that you'll not have to buy another car for a long long time! Liva maybe the car for you, provided you're ok with its typical Japanese tinny build (may not be an issue for an existing Alto owner) and can live with/manage the average interiors.

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

...and that DDiS/MJD is India's national engine Liva while has a Toyota D4-D engine reeks of cost cutting !

You may want to sample these from the review:

Modern diesel engine with minimal turbo lag and excellent driveability

Fuel efficiency wise, the Liva is ...the new 4 cylinder FE champ.

In fact, the driveability is actually better than the Ford engine. That's saying a lot!

Apart from the noise above that elusive 3k rpm, which is also expected to come down with use, in what way is the national engine better than the international one?!

Your engine might last but the remaining parts of your car might not !

Gives me a sense of deja vu! And makes me . When M800 was launched, this is what Amby & Fiat lovers used to say. The rest is history - M800 did not come apart, but the other two became history! Also, Qualis, anyone?!

[blackfire_9]

^^ Thanks a lot for your suggestions mate. And before continuing on any further, don't apologize mate. After all, it's because of your post that I learnt a little more about this engine from Toyota & how it became popular by their Hilux & LC trucks.

I think as someone suggested above, the service network coupled with relatively cheap maintainance is the need of the day for my requirements. So, for now, the Figo is pretty much ruled out. But please correct me in case I might be carrying a wrong impression on the cost of maintainance of a Figo vis a vis the Vista or the Liva.

Will update this thread after I take a test-drive for the Liva some time next week as I am flying out for a couple of days.

Drive safe.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by RadiantKarma

You may want to sample these from the review:

Apart from the noise above that elusive 3k rpm, which is also expected to come down with use, in what way is the national engine better than the international one?

I missed a comma in my sentence, I did not mean to say anything against the engine. I was saying everything in Liva apart from engine reeks of cost cutting. While the engine may last, interiors might not.

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

I think as someone suggested above, the service network coupled with relatively cheap maintainance is the need of the day for my requirements. So, for now, the Figo is pretty much ruled out. But please correct me in case I might be carrying a wrong impression on the cost of maintainance of a Figo vis a vis the Vista or the Liva.

Service network: I expect the Etios family to do anywhere between 10-20 k numbers every month. In any case, Toyota is a top global player. It has had very successful run so far in the country. And only now, it has decided to become a serious numbers player. The service network, IMHO, ought to expand BIG time with the numbers game hotting up. But then, this is MY expectation/speculation. You'll have to take your own call.

Cost of maintenance: Mate, don't look at cost of spares alone. Life-time ownership cost of a Toyota is not expected to be high.

All the best!

[RadiantKarma]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I missed a comma in my sentence, I did not mean to say anything against the engine. I was saying everything in Liva apart from engine reeks of cost cutting. While the engine may last, interiors might not.

Lol! And I put up a spirited charge! But I stand by the defence regarding interiors not lasting!

Edit: Sorry mods, for inadvertent back to back post. Too late for me to notice now, as cannot delete this post even if I merge this one with the previous one.

[mayank10]

Originally Posted by blackfire_9

^^ Thanks a lot for your suggestions mate. And before continuing on any further, don't apologize mate. After all, it's because of your post that I learnt a little more about this engine from Toyota & how it became popular by their Hilux & LC trucks.

I think as someone suggested above, the service network coupled with relatively cheap maintainance is the need of the day for my requirements. So, for now, the Figo is pretty much ruled out. But please correct me in case I might be carrying a wrong impression on the cost of maintainance of a Figo vis a vis the Vista or the Liva.

Will update this thread after I take a test-drive for the Liva some time next week as I am flying out for a couple of days.

Drive safe.

My 2 cents:
Close your eyes, go to the Toyota showroom and get the Liva.
Trust me, the car is nice and will last for as long as you want it to be.

I am a Petrol Liva owner and despite of all the cost cutting issues hyped in some posts, i love my Blu.
I am sure that the diesel engine would be equally good, as it is a D-4D.
Liva has got amazing space inside and is very very comfortable to drive. You will never feel claustrophobic while you are sitting inside. Car is fun to drive and scores very high on drive-ability. It has got amazing low end torque and is a perfect car to drive on hilly areas, where you would rarely cross 3000 RPM. Believe me, NVH is under control and you would rarely have an issue. Also, it would give you so much fun when you drive with family or friends, with so much space and comfort.

All in all, the car has got all basics right, and though it might not be the most amazing car, i would definitely rate it as the most practical hatch in town. Also, the Diesel come with a by-default ABS.

[subodh_mallya]

Nice Review vid6639. I am currently in a conundrum with trying to figure out a replacement for my i10 (read: petrol prices ) Reading your review made me think about considering the Liva Diesel and I went for a test drive. Seems like there are a lot of people switching to diesel. 60 - 90 days is the waiting on the great T badged hatchback .

The drivability of the car is awesome, but the performance was uninspiring. I know the kappa is no stonker, but it has sweet delivery of power and never fails to make me smile.

But here's my question: I need a replacement and I've narrowed down it down to Indica Vista VX, Ford Figo Zxi and the Liva Diesel. I want something that can be as close to the i10's experience your views

Mods : Not sure if this is the right place for the question but the scales were tipped in the favor of the Liva hence I thought I'd post it here

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by subodh_mallya

But here's my question: I need a replacement and I've narrowed down it down to Indica Vista VX, Ford Figo Zxi and the Liva Diesel. I want something that can be as close to the i10's experience your views

Mods : Not sure if this is the right place for the question but the scales were tipped in the favor of the Liva hence I thought I'd post it here

Subodh, The closest to the i10's experience is none of the cars in the list above.

What you need to do is take a look at the Nissan Micra XV. It costs Rs.5.72L ex-showroom.

The next will be the Liva diesel as it's light and effortless to drive like the i10.

[subodh_mallya]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Subodh, The closest to the i10's experience is none of the cars in the list above.

What you need to do is take a look at the Nissan Micra XV. It costs Rs.5.72L ex-showroom.

The next will be the Liva diesel as it's light and effortless to drive like the i10.

Thanks Vid6639 , will take a test drive. Heard the waiting on that one is quite less.

[powertrain]

Uploading the prices for Liva D in Mumbai & Navi Mumbai

Hope this helps

Thanks & Regards

Varun

[abhi1881]

Originally Posted by subodh_mallya

Thanks Vid6639 , will take a test drive. Heard the waiting on that one is quite less.

Can you please update on your experience?I am also sailing on the same boat and wanted to buy car for my wife. Presently i own innova 2.5 vx(1 year old) and hard core toyota fan. Nissan micra diesel is appealing for now. However, Toyota, showroom/service center is like walking distance away from my home and Nissan is like 15Km.