Team-BHP - Mahindra XUV500 : Test Drive & Review

Quote:

Originally Posted by debuda (Post 3052412)

It is not unreasonable to assume that Indian car manufacturers like the Tatas and Mahindras who have designed and developed cars primarily for the indigenous market have taken into account the 'Indian conditions' -- both from the climatic and driving habits points of view.

I understand from certain reasonably high authorities that certain vehicles of the manufacturers mentioned above by you, have clutch plates that are designed to last the lifetime of the engine, and the engine life is supposed to be 350,000 km on a minimum. Yet, time and again, these engines & clutches do fail much earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by debuda (Post 3052412)

Are you trying to imply that the manufacturer's recommendation is devoid of 'scientific and technical basis'? Why on earth should it be so? Check out the following useful links :

The articles in Link 1 and Link 3 are supported by documentation (at least, the mention of it) of oil analysis from a certified laboratory in the US. Till we can do the same here, I shall continue to stand by what I mentioned in my previous post. I do know of the existence of an oil analysis lab run by an oil manufacturer, on the premises of an automobile manufacturer in India, but it is supposed to be so hush-hush that I have been unable to take a look at oil analysis reports that they generate for the manufacturer. Until the said manufacturer (whom I shall desist from naming) is transparent enough about publishing the oil analysis report(s), I shall refuse to believe that engine technology is so perfect in India that mineral oils last for 15k km without significant breakdown under Indian driving conditions, while in the rest of the world that figure is the absolute maximum that any pure synthetic oil will be allowed to run in any diesel engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 3052445)

Clutch plates are subjected to wear and tear every day, especially in stop-and-go traffic. Furthermore, bad driving habits (slipping clutch) can lead to premature clutch failure even in the most advanced and expensive cars (with manual transmission) in the world. Similar to brake pads / discs / drums, clutch plates are designed to gradually wear out over time. If brakes and clutches were made out of material which refuse to wear out, they would not be able to provide enough friction and hence would not serve their intended purpose.

The rate of wear of clutch plates is also proportional to the quantum of power / torque being transmitted during clutching / declutching.

Under the circumstances, I think it is almost impossible to design clutch plates which would last several lakh KM, at least with technology available today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by debuda (Post 3052412)

It is not unreasonable to assume that Indian car manufacturers like the Tatas and Mahindras who have designed and developed cars primarily for the indigenous market have taken into account the 'Indian conditions' -- both from the climatic and driving habits points of view.

I wish I could agree to what you say.
All of us are well aware of the quality of the products launched by Tata and Mahindra where the initial batch of consumers end up being the real test mules of their products.
Had they actually and totally "taken into account" the "Indian conditions", such things would not have happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by debuda (Post 3052412)

IMHO 'Indian conditions', at least from the climatic point of view, are more conducive to longer life of engine oils as compared to Western countries where engines are often started at sub-zero temperatures.

Heat, dust and humidity are as great an enemy of the lubricants and mechanical components as a sub-zero temparatures, if not more, and this is amply proven.

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller (Post 3051892)

There is enough scientific and technical basis for us to want to reduce oil change intervals below what is recommended by a manufacturer.

Why was such a recommendation put forward? It cannot be an arbitrary decision by M&M. Esp. since the same engine doing duty on Scorpios continues to have a 15k km interval oil change recommendation, the first change being at 5k km (5k, 20k, 35k, 50k...).

Quote:

Originally Posted by debuda (Post 3052412)

Regarding 'Indian conditions', I'd like to make the following points :

It is not unreasonable to assume that Indian car manufacturers like the Tatas and Mahindras who have designed and developed cars primarily for the indigenous market have taken into account the 'Indian conditions' -- both from the climatic and driving habits points of view.
IMHO 'Indian conditions', at least from the climatic point of view, are more conducive to longer life of engine oils as compared to Western countries where engines are often started at sub-zero temperatures.

I am still confused as to what should be my POA whether to change the oil or not? Similarly for the air filter?

What I also came across after going through the service manual that even though the service intervals are at 10k each, and the oil change is at 20k intervals, the 3rd paid service is at 15months or 30k whichever is earlier, next at 18months or 40k whichever is earlier, next at 21months or 50k whichever is earlier.

I am not sure whether Scorpio has a 6 month interval or a 3 month interval? by reducing it to 3 months, essentially M&M has conveniently asked you to change your oil every 6 months, and IMHO most owners will fail to clock 20k each subsequent 6 months?

we all see nowadays manufacturers are trying to use the longer service intervals also as a marketing gimmick (every 10k) and also by changing oil in every second service, they are also able to market the lower servicing cost for the vehicle.

Bottom line I am even more confused? can someone else shed some light? Also if I get this Maxmile Feo oil and air filter from outside how much are they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGwagon (Post 3053741)

the 3rd paid service is at 15months or 30k whichever is earlier, next at 18months or 40k whichever is earlier, next at 21months or 50k whichever is earlier.

Sorry the 30k is 12 months or earlier, and thereafter subsequent 3 months and 10k.

I have also just learned that this is Valvoline All Fleet Turbo Technical Specification: SAE 15W-40, API CH-4; and as per my sources being a CV oil should easily do 20k.

But that said I will still appreciate some feedback from the forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGwagon (Post 3053741)

The 3 month service interval has been removed by M&M. Now only the mileage criteria remains. New service-booklets would have this information correctly.

A TSB was shared on the niggles thread by a fellow BHPian and XUV-owner Tigger. As per that, M&M recommends a oil-change once a year OR the kilometers-intervals (as mentioned in service booklet), whichever is earlier. So in a way, the 3 month oil-change criteria has been changed to a year.

Maxmile Feo oil + filter costs around 1800-2000 Rs for 6 liters and is available only with M&M Service Centers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDP (Post 3053807)

The 3 month service interval has been removed by M&M. Now only the mileage criteria remains. New service-booklets would have this information correctly.

A TSB was shared on the niggles thread by a fellow BHPian and XUV-owner Tigger. As per that, M&M recommends a oil-change once a year OR the kilometers-intervals (as mentioned in service booklet), whichever is earlier. So in a way, the 3 month oil-change criteria has been changed to a year.

Maxmile Feo oil costs around 1800-2000 Rs for 6 liters and is available only with M&M Service Centers.

SDP thanks for clarifying the 3 month interval, I was quite worried of maintaining my warranty.

Mahindra & Valvoline had co-developed the brand Maximile, and the Valvoline All Fleet Turbo Technical Specification: SAE 15W-40, API CH-4, is the same oil that is being used. So anybody interested to change the oil on their own can buy the same from a valvoline dealer

Quote:

Originally Posted by debuda (Post 3051637)

I know several 'car lovers' who think that the frequency of engine oil change is directly proportional to their 'love' for their respective cars. But this has no technical basis.

Having worked for many decades on large marine diesel engines (both operation and major overhaul) I know a thing or two about engine oil. Modern engine oils have a much longer change interval as compared to oils that were used in the good old Landmasters and Fiats. This is because of giant strides not only in lubricant technology but also engine technology.

I fully agree with Zappo when he says that the manufacturer knows best. When M&M are offering a 3-year, unlimited mileage warranty on the XUV would they like the engines to be damaged due to an excessively long oil change interval? As a matter of fact, all engine manufacturers incorporate adequate safety margins in their maintenance schedule. For example, when the M&M recommended engine oil change interval for the XUV is 20,000 KM, it would be safe to assume that the oil would be good enough for about 30,000 KM!

Some car owners (especially those who have recently migrated from petrol to diesel) get very much alarmed when they see that their engine oil has turned black. The blackness of the oil has nothing to do with its lubricating ability. Diesel engine oil turns black sooner due to fine carbon particles suspended in it. Modern oil filters ensure that the amount of carbon suspended in the engine oil remains within permissible limits.

The standard oil change interval in large modern diesel engines (used for power generation or propulsion) is at least 1,000 hours. If an automobile engine is operated for 1,000 hrs it would be equivalent to the automobile clocking about 50,000 KM (assuming an average speed of 50 KMPH). And do not forget that diesel engines used for commercial applications are usually running at high loads.

IMHO, the main problem is this -- most of us (especially old timers like me) have a mindset that "engine oil should be changed every 3,000 to 5,000 KM to keep the engine healthy and smooth". This mindset is the result of our long association with Lambrettas, Jawas, Standard Heralds and Ambassadors. Technology has come a long way since. So we need to change our mindset.

Please note that the engine oil change interval in the XUV is 20,000 KM. Only the first and second oil change intervals are shorter (5,000 and 15,000 KM respectively).

Excellent discourse. The Maximile FEO engine oil is to be used for 20000 Kim's drain interval. In fact some workshops recommend to reduce the interval to increase their revenue from lube sales.