[mohan41]

Originally Posted by gkrishn

you are from cbe? good to know.

I am not really from Cbe. I am sorry if I gave that impression.

I never had issue within bangalore either. this yercaud has narrow ghat roads. and on couple of occasion, had to deal with rash on coming cabs. so ended up halting on, slopes. and getting the car moving from stand still on the slope become a pain. I now feel, that i shouldn't have taken to ghat section so early.

I will experiment it on one really steep road near my place, coming to full halt and then move forward. Looks like some practice may be required. I had queried some of the SX4 diesel owners in T-BHP about this and they all had mentioned they never faced issues on steep slopes (Please refer to http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2638817)

[gkrishn]

Originally Posted by mohan41

I will experiment it on one really steep road near my place, coming to full halt and then move forward. Looks like some practice may be required. I had queried some of the SX4 diesel owners in T-BHP about this and they all had mentioned they never faced issues on steep slopes (Please refer to http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2638817)

that you tube video. yes, that is pretty close description on this issue.

refer to this pic.


This section B is a stupid road that leads to GRT nature trail, from main road.

It is stupid because,

• of it is steep gradient.
• And the way it intersects the main road, at a steep angle.total blind spot.
• even while entering into section B from main road, there is no visibility of any thing on section B.

now, in that section B, with about 5 people and some luggage, ertiga wont climb from stand still.

You need to gain some momentum in section A and carry that over to the B. Only then it will be able to climb.

I don't think any petrol car, for ex even Jazz, with similar load will have this issue. even a vento tdi should be able to make it comfortably.

linea/sx4/ertiga needs that 1.6MJD.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by gkrishn

I don't think any petrol car, for ex even Jazz, with similar load will have this issue. even a vento tdi should be able to make it comfortably.

linea/sx4/ertiga needs that 1.6MJD.

It cannot be any further from the truth - A diesel vehicle will always have a much higher low end torque as compared to a petrol car so any slopes , movement from stand still will be negotiated better in a diesel as compared to a petrol . Given that Ertiga is a 1.3 ltr engine .. a fully loaded car with loaded luggage will obviously struggle in a slope

[ajay_satpute]

Since day one, I always felt that this is the single biggest concern regarding Ertiga, it being a 7-seater. Fully loaded Ertiga with luggage on a slope sounds jittery to me. This is the only point which makes Innova a much better vehicle, due to its correctly powered engine to carry heavy loads.

Originally Posted by souravc

A diesel vehicle will always have a much higher low end torque as compared to a petrol car so any slopes , movement from stand still will be negotiated better in a diesel as compared to a petrol .

And by the way Sourav, can you the same about Linea TJET?

[souravc]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

And by the way Sourav, can you the same about Linea TJET?

Yes Ajay, the same holds true for TJET too since we are talking about the low end torque here and not the peak torque. TJET's peak torque of 207 Nm is at 2200 rpm whereas for say Sunny diesel (1.5 ltr) its 200 Nm at 2000 rpm. The torque characteristics of a diesel is steeper than a petrol thus while petrols have a wider band and thus higher peak speed diesel have more grunt at the low end . Thats why trucks are diesels , tow vehicles are diesels since they need that "shove' from standstill .. Le Mans winner is also a diesel though

[gkrishn]

Originally Posted by souravc

It cannot be any further from the truth

you mean to say a petrol car, with a small engine, would have also struggled in that slope?

either way, the 1.3MJD torque at really really low rpms, are not that great.

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by gkrishn

you mean to say a petrol car, with a small engine, would have also struggled in that slope?

either way, the 1.3MJD torque at really really low rpms, are not that great.

1.3MJD of Ertiga has a torgue of 200Nm at 1750 RPM. None of the petrol cars you mentioned has even a torque equal to Ertiga's at any RPM leave alone low end (Jazz especially is known for a poor low end torque). So I guess Ertiga will perform better than Jazz or even a Petrol SX4 on a steep incline, though it will struggle with full load. But I guess with 1st gear and proper throttle one should be able to do it. I have taken the Ertiga from stand still on a steep incline (basement parking ramp) without any hassles except that there were only 3 passengers in the car.

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by souravc

Yes Ajay, the same holds true for TJET too since we are talking about the low end torque here and not the peak torque. TJET's peak torque of 207 Nm is at 2200 rpm whereas for say Sunny diesel (1.5 ltr) its 200 Nm at 2000 rpm. The torque characteristics of a diesel is steeper than a petrol thus while petrols have a wider band and thus higher peak speed diesel have more grunt at the low end . Thats why trucks are diesels , tow vehicles are diesels since they need that "shove' from standstill .. Le Mans winner is also a diesel though

OT:
Sourav, have you driven the TJET yet? TJET's engine is a turbo-charged one. The low end torque is massive. And when I mentioned about torque, I was not at all talking about the peak torque. Do one thing, get a TD of TJET and then we will discuss this on a separate thread.


BTW, guys, do you think the ~9000 orders of Duster have eaten into Ertiga's sales to some extent? Two of my friends who had booked Ertiga moved to Duster, just because Duster is an SUVish looking vehicle, even though it has 2 less seats.

[souravc]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

OT:
Sourav, have you driven the TJET yet? TJET's engine is a turbo-charged one. The low end torque is massive. And when I mentioned about torque, I was not at all talking about the peak torque. Do one thing, get a TD of TJET and then we will discuss this on a separate thread.

For the limited point of whether Ertiga is struggling because of it being a diesel and would have fared if it were a petrol I guess our daily experience of normal petrols and diesels woujld suffice , a TD of TJET is really not required .
Will surely let you know whenever I do a TD of the TJET, as of now I am enjoying the 250N-m (i.e. 43 N-m more massive ) torque of Vento TDi as my daily ride so turbo charged pleasure is not entirely unknown to me
Cheers

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

OT:

BTW, guys, do you think the ~9000 orders of Duster have eaten into Ertiga's sales to some extent? Two of my friends who had booked Ertiga moved to Duster, just because Duster is an SUVish looking vehicle, even though it has 2 less seats.

I doubt duster will eat into ertiga Sales. The 2 are in different segments. A person looking for an SUV will not look at an MPV. Surely your friends probably were interested in an SUV and hence opted for a Duster, though can't understand why they booked the Ertiga in the first place if not for the space and comfort of 3 rows. Of course there will always be some cross shopping within a price band, but this I think will be more of an exception than a norm.

[gkrishn]

Originally Posted by nurni76

1.3MJD of Ertiga has a torgue of 200Nm at 1750 RPM. None of the petrol cars you mentioned has even a torque equal to Ertiga's at any RPM leave alone low end (Jazz especially is known for a poor low end torque). So I guess Ertiga will perform better than Jazz or even a Petrol SX4 on a steep incline, though it will struggle with full load. But I guess with 1st gear and proper throttle one should be able to do it. I have taken the Ertiga from stand still on a steep incline (basement parking ramp) without any hassles except that there were only 3 passengers in the car.

When starting from stand still, isn't 1750 a high of rpm range?
yes, from 1750 it pull nicely. but not from stand still. so, in that slope, I would have to generously dump the clutch.

I don't have issue with my office basement ramp either. marathalli railway bridge was also done with ease with 6 adults. May be the gradients I faced yercaud was much steeper.

And 1700/2000/2200 are not low enough for this situation.

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by gkrishn

When starting from stand still, isn't 1750 a high of rpm range?
yes, from 1750 it pull nicely. but not from stand still. so, in that slope, I would have to generously dump the clutch.

I don't have issue with my office basement ramp either. marathalli railway bridge was also done with ease with 6 adults. May be the gradients I faced yercaud was much steeper.

And 1700/2000/2200 are not low enough for this situation.

Idle RPM in Ertiga is close to 1000. So I guess for a steep incline with a full load, one may have to go with an RPM of atleast of 1500 at start, which is not very high considering the overall range. Of course you can't expect to start off with just a release of the clutch at such high gradients and one needs to get an optimum mix of rpm and clutch to move from a standstill. I can't really comment since I may not have faced a similar situation as yours. I am planning a trip to Shimla soon. Will definitely check this on steep gradients.

[swiftdiesel]

Originally Posted by gkrishn

And 1700/2000/2200 are not low enough for this situation.

Of course a much lower torque figure would have been nice like the Innova which starts as low as 1400 rpm and a flat curve till 3400.

Given the nature of Multijet this is as low as it can get. The FGT engine you find in the older Swift is even further up at 2000 RPM. Any lower than 1750 in the Ertiga then the top end will suffer. While you can cruise all day in the 120-130 kmph in the Ertiga the same cannot be said about the Innova which runs out of breath at 120 and the engine gets loud and boomy.

I drove the Ertiga with 4 on board and huge luggage and I never felt any struggle climbing any of the inclines. This was when my vehicle had a mere 650 kms on the odo. The climb from Coonoor to my cottage on Mysore road in Ooty was in heavy b2b traffic due to the flower show. From a standstill up a steep gradient the engine pulls neatly from as low as 1200 RPM. Please note the air is much thinner up there compared to the plains and the engine loses some power due to that. Yet, the Ertiga surprised me! The last time when I was this surprised was when a Yeti that I was test driving stalled when I crossed a speed hump in 2nd gear. Now my Ertiga's done 6000 kms and the engine has opened up really well.

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by swiftdiesel

Given the nature of Multijet this is as low as it can get. The FGT engine you find in the older Swift is even further up at 2000 RPM. Any lower than 1750 in the Ertiga then the top end will suffer. While you can cruise all day in the 120-130 kmph in the Ertiga the same cannot be said about the Innova which runs out of breath at 120 and the engine gets loud and boomy.

I

Innova is short geared but it is is bit too much to add that it runs out of breath at 120kmph. In fact it goes up to 150 quite easily and you can see 160 on the speedo with some patience. Anyways, the vehicles are different beasts and have different target segments

[swiftdiesel]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

Innova is short geared but it is is bit too much to add that it runs out of breath at 120kmph. In fact it goes up to 150 quite easily and you can see 160 on the speedo with some patience. Anyways, the vehicles are different beasts and have different target segments

I never said 150 isn't attainable in an Innova. But my comment was the way it attains that speed. Try driving a Verna/Rapid/Vento and an Innova back to back and you' ll know what I mean. I've seen the Innova's 2.5 D-4D tuned to the rate of 150 bhp in other countries. This engine is no slouch but is bogged down by its lower state of tune and lower power to weight ratio.