[rohing]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

This is totally weird and for me the absolute first time I am hearing such a thing!
I have driven all sorts of cars and I have never come across something as weird as this.
Can some serious expert please clarify?

+1 Look forward to an explanation to this. I always understood the opposite - when you press the clutch you lose the engine braking and car goes even faster (esp. if it downhill or downward slopes).

[aniketi]

Good review always, but i am disappointed that it don't have mention of the Petrol engine (Am i missing something??). I was waiting for review of the Petrol engine also. People like me who travel around 500 Kms per month and want to own SUV, its better to go for good Petrol engine option if available. I guess 1.6 Petrol engine will also be good to buy. Also if you are saving 2-3 Lacs in the initial cost, you don't feel that much about the daily Petrol costs when your running is limited.

Anyone has any experience of the Petrol engine? Is test ride available for Petrol models? It will be great if someone shares detailed experience o the Petrol model. I am sure it will be smooth & good performer as well.

[johy]

Originally Posted by aniketi

Good review always, but i am disappointed that it don't have mention of the Petrol engine (Am i missing something??). I was waiting for review of the Petrol engine also. People like me who travel around 500 Kms per month and want to own SUV, its better to go for good Petrol engine option if available. I guess 1.6 Petrol engine will also be good to buy. Also if you are saving 2-3 Lacs in the initial cost, you don't feel that much about the daily Petrol costs when your running is limited.

While taking a Petrol is justified with low running, one thing you must keep in mind is that when it is time to sell it, very few people, if any, would be wanting to buy a 2nd hand petrol SUV; such is the mindset, especially in the used car market.

Further and utterly strangely, both the Petrol versions do not even get the option of ABS/Airbags. It makes me think Renault brought out the Petrol model at 7.something lacs just to put an eye-catching word in the media releases. Duster launched at 7.19 lacs. And nothing more.

The aforementioned braking issue is a weird one. I highly doubt it. The official team-bhp review also does not mention it.

[micrographics]

Originally Posted by rohing

+1 Look forward to an explanation to this. I always understood the opposite - when you press the clutch you lose the engine braking and car goes even faster (esp. if it downhill or downward slopes).

When I learned Driving, my instructor also advised me to use Clutch while braking.

I asked him why and in reply he told that this helps in effective braking and also the vehicles that don't have ABS, this method also work as ABS upto some extent and vehicle will not skid to a side.

Since then I'm following this method and found it to be very effective.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by micrographics

When I learned Driving, my instructor also advised me to use Clutch while braking.

I asked him why and in reply he told that this helps in effective braking and also the vehicles that don't have ABS, this method also work as ABS upto some extent and vehicle will not skid to a side.

Since then I'm following this method and found it to be very effective.

Works as ABS? Thats deserves a comment in the "funny things from non auto folks" thread.

[floyd.bell]

Originally Posted by aniketi

Anyone has any experience of the Petrol engine? Is test ride available for Petrol models? It will be great if someone shares detailed experience o the Petrol model. I am sure it will be smooth & good performer as well.

Originally Posted by johy

While taking a Petrol is justified with low running, one thing you must keep in mind is that when it is time to sell it, very few people, if any, would be wanting to buy a 2nd hand petrol SUV; such is the mindset, especially in the used car market.

Further and utterly strangely, both the Petrol versions do not even get the option of ABS/Airbags.

I too am a petrol advocate. I look at it this way, since I am already paying less initially for the petrol, even if I sell the vehicle after few years, the depreciated loss wouldn't be that much. Also, the 2nd hand buyer is getting the petrol at a good lower price as compared to used diesel vehicle. But alas, not everybody thinks so Petrolheads are going extinct.
Jokes apart, if the petrol Duster is a performer, I would surely go for it over the diesel. The only thing that would make me think twice is the absence of safety kit.

[Behemoth]

Originally Posted by rohing

+1 Look forward to an explanation to this. I always understood the opposite - when you press the clutch you lose the engine braking and car goes even faster (esp. if it downhill or downward slopes).

I can shed some light on this aspect. Basically new cars have a technology called as EDC (Engine Deceleration control)/ EBC (Engine braking control) which is programmed into the ECU for an engine braking effect when the car is moving down a Declination. This is achieved by means of a declination/ Inclination sensor which feeds a level control signal to the engine to determine the fuel input required, and subject to signals from the accelerator position sensor etc.

In cars without EDC, what would happen (even if you are in a low gear), the engine would continue to receive fuel as per the Idling stabilization routine and on a slope, the engine would be sort of free-running and would provide a minimal braking effect and it would actually be like coasting and you would gain speed if you do not press the brake.

In cars with EDC/ EBC, the declination sensor would sense that the car is on a slope and if you don't give any accelerator input, it would curb the fuel quantity to the engine and reduce the engine rpm (below a limit, typically 1000 rpm) to give the effect of virtual braking and a constant speed, without even pressing the brake.

EDC/ EBC is now available on many cars and helps retain control of the car in downhill situations, even without pressing the brakes.

I have used this feature often in my Yeti and it is quite effective. It is an automatic function and does not require any user input (except that the accelerator should be at home position).

How to test whether your car has EBC/EDC?

Take it to a downhill gradient of at least 8-10%, slot in first gear and release the brake. If it holds a consistent speed (10-20 kmph) it is automatically using EDC/EBC, but if it accelerates and continues to gain speed, it does not have the EDC/ EBC.

Originally Posted by docmech

my friend has a sunny, even before his registration process was completed he rammed into a qualis (who as is expected made a sudden turn without any indication) he depressed the brake pedal completely it slowed down the car but did not stop it! he had a massive damage to the front right side. later when we took the car for repair we learnt that both the clutch and the brake levers have to be depressed simultaneously for complete action.

This happens typically with novice drivers who are driving at low speeds, in high gear. For example. if someone tries to bring down the car speed to 30kmph in 4th Gear by pressing the brake (and not pressing the clutch!), the corresponding engine rpm will be in the range of 600 (typically) which is much lower than the idling and the engine will go into stall mode. But as an attempt to recover and not stall, the anti-stall programming pushes up the rpm to 800 trying to achieve a stable rpm. This can cause a sudden jump of the car and new drivers end up hitting other cars.

That's why for new drivers it is always recommended to disengage the clutch when pressing the brakes! Only when they become experienced, they learn the art of using engine deceleration!

Regards,
Behemoth

[ampere]

Originally Posted by Sharkpin

just a newbie here , i have just test driven the 85 ps model of the Duster and have to say that it did feel a bit underpowered in the sense that i was able to quickly getaway from the traffic at lower rpm's but you could feel the strain on the engine, now i have driven the sunny as well which shares the same engine but there the engine feels a lot smoother i guess due to the ways its tuned for a sedan like drive.

What do you mean when you say strain on the engine? Dont you get any power at higher speeds (I mean around 100) ? Whats the RPM at 90-100kmph?

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by johy

While taking a Petrol is justified with low running, one thing you must keep in mind is that when it is time to sell it, very few people, if any, would be wanting to buy a 2nd hand petrol SUV; such is the mindset, especially in the used car market.

Further and utterly strangely, both the Petrol versions do not even get the option of ABS/Airbags. It makes me think Renault brought out the Petrol model at 7.something lacs just to put an eye-catching word in the media releases. Duster launched at 7.19 lacs. And nothing more.

The aforementioned braking issue is a weird one. I highly doubt it. The official team-bhp review also does not mention it.

Yes, you are right. Resale value is an issue. But it is issue for many cars like Accord, CRV, Elantra, Sonata etc. Also with diesel cars like Safari, Yeti etc.
But if you are saving 2-3 Lacs initially only i guess its not that much loss IMO. E.g. You buy diesel SUV for 12 Lacs & sell it for say 6 lacs after 5 years. You loose 6 Lacs. Same with Petrol, you buy it for 9 Lacs & sell it for say 3 Lacs after 5 years. Here also you loose 6 Lacs only. But here whatever you save initially is your gain. Also insurance & maintenance cost is less for Petrol.

[Mindgrinder]

good review, one question, the Bluetooth and Media unit behind steering does it turn with the steering just like on steering controls? what if you are on a turn or stuck in traffic and get a call etc.

[Sharkpin]

Originally Posted by ampere

What do you mean when you say strain on the engine? Dont you get any power at higher speeds (I mean around 100) ? Whats the RPM at 90-100kmph?

I could only drive it for 3-4 kms, so i didnt make a note of the rpm sorry about that.

but a few things that i found when driving the 85 ps

- engine noise is a lot more audible in the cabin than in the 110 ps, particularly when you are revving the engine to get into 3rd/4th gear , this could be due to the low power

- when you are driving the 110 ps , you always feel that there is more power to tap from the engine , even you have your foot down 3/4th of the way on the accelarator, in the 85 ps you can feel the lack of power once you floor the accelarator.

there is nothing worse than having a low powered suv , whats the point in buying them when you have low end hatchbacks zipping off and leaving us in their wake.

i have booked a 110 ps and was sceptical about whether i have made the right choice , but after driving the 85 ps its made my life easier and like they say there is no substitute for real power.

[floyd.bell]

All said and done, if one has already crossed the newbie driver stage, one shouldn't make any changes to his/her own driving skills for things such as braking is concerned. These things kick in by instinct once you have become experienced drivers. If you try to challenge your instinct, may prove fatal sometimes.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by Sharkpin

- engine noise is a lot more audible in the cabin than in the 110 ps, particularly when you are revving the engine to get into 3rd/4th gear , this could be due to the low power

- when you are driving the 110 ps , you always feel that there is more power to tap from the engine , even you have your foot down 3/4th of the way on the accelarator, in the 85 ps you can feel the lack of power once you floor the accelarator.

there is nothing worse than having a low powered suv , whats the point in buying them when you have low end hatchbacks zipping off and leaving us in their wake.

Very surprising to note that engine is more audible with the same insulation.
Can it be also because of driving style? For 110, one knows when to downshift, while for 85, expectation is one will find power
and hence revs it harder? (Just a thought)


Also I was thinking the power delivery would be very similar to Sunny/Fiesta, which I
thought were very comfortable. True that 110 would be good to have, but 85 I thought should be sufficient enough to cruise at 100.

Need to drive to check it out. Will also wait for other reviews

[suhaildurrani]

I had the opportunity to look around the SUV here in Bangalore. The Duster is big enough to be called an SUV and small enough to find in a tight parking spot in city congestion. The road presence of the SUV is beyond anything else in its similar dimensions.

I adore Duster for being so bold and flashy. It might be the 'loudest' car in the < 20L range (obviously not forgetting XUV5OO). The only criticism for which this car will not get my 13L is the interior. To look as a by-stander the car is a stunner. To sit in the car for hours in traffic jams and long journeys, I cannot stand the quality of plastics and odd positioning of controls and creature comforts. The quality of plastic is easily from 2 segments down. I hate to say this but an i10 feels better put together from the inside then the Duster. The plastics feel hollow and sub-standard. The doors have a disheartening 'thud' when shut close.

I am no car critique but I know when the quality is compromised.

[mallumowgli]

Originally Posted by Behemoth

In cars without EDC, what would happen (even if you are in a low gear), the engine would continue to receive fuel as per the Idling stabilization routine and on a slope, the engine would be sort of free-running and would provide a minimal braking effect and it would actually be like coasting and you would gain speed if you do not press the brake.

This pertains to a very specific condition when the vehicle is going downhill and also when you are not in the appropriate gear. Yes slight braking will be needed when you are going downhill. Again the clutch plays no role in this situation, except when the speed reduces considerably and you need to come down by a gear

But what docmech mentions here is that for every panic breaking situation in the Duster, you need to press the clutch to have effective braking. That's weird!! Need a second opinion on this

PS : I was not aware of the EDC/EBC concept - thanks for sharing the info

Originally Posted by docmech

on my test drive of the duster tried to do an emergency stop by depressing the brake pedal alone........pathetic the car doesn't stop, however when both the clutch and the brake pedals are depressed it works like a charm!

Did you notice whether it was a downhill gradient as behemoth mentions above? Or are you saying that the vehicle did not stop smoothly under panic braking but when the clutch was used the vehicle came to a stop without any fuss?

Originally Posted by rohitbagai

Well, he is not entirely wrong. When on a wet surface if you break without clutch it will prevent skid to an extent.

Not clear on the above. Do you mean to say on wet surfaces braking without the clutch engaged is better or without depressing the clutch pedal is better?