[dkaile]

Originally Posted by Harbir

and whether you want toyota reliability and service or Skoda lack thereof

That is a vainglorious issue for Toyota and the main selling point for this car. Toyota's reliability and service is legendary and way ahead of Skoda.

[Harbir]

I will readily admit that the skoda fiasco that unfolded on this forum has virtually guaranteed I will not touch the Superb

[JackSparrow]

What a ripoff...
They cost $23,000 in the US and 23L in India??? If it's not a CBU shouldn't it cost less?

[troublemaker]

Originally Posted by Harbir

the strategy is simple. The camry is primarily a US market car where it registered 300,000+ units per year. They are not going to engineer the car with engines and costs to appeal to a market with just a 2000 units a year.

They've done what they can within the flexibility they are allowed by the budget they have for marketing the car in India. Whether it sells poorly or superbly in India will not even be a rounding error on the Camry sales performance report.

I agree with you. Even if they priced it 2L less, how many more cars can they sell?

Toyota better work on getting the next-gen Corolla at a killer price. That would give them the required punch.

[Ahmed]

Awesome review and I am impressed by the zero lag in posting the thread the day this was launched. Well deserved 5 Stars. Am I happy being a Toyota fan? No = reason - too pricey and scanty features. There is enough market for this segment (even in a small town like Aurangabad - known for the 101 Mercs delivered on the same day) however I am skeptical as to the share of market that will divert to this vehicle.

Indeed, as many mentioned before me, Superb with a diesel engine is still a better option.

Another part of my heart says, this is a vehicle that most people buy as a company registered vehicle on which the fuel is also most of the times is loaded on the company accounts. So - who cares with the running costs in this scenario - only the annual maintenance costs matter. Add to that the depreciation benefits to the company.

Back in Saudi - Toyota Camry is a winner always. My Dad had been driving one since 1979 (I think it was called a Cressida that time). He switched to the latest Camry whenever it was launched.

Also like most mentioned before my post, how can this be a CKD and not be cheaper?

[Carb]

Originally Posted by JackSparrow

What a ripoff...
They cost $23,000 in the US and 23L in India??? If it's not a CBU shouldn't it cost less?

Hey captain,

The thing is, the Camry still has around 90% of its parts imported from Japan n Thai. So, although it ain't a CBU anymore, its not what you'd call 'cheap' to be causing any major changes in the pricing. Also the difference in feature list of Indian and US spec is a different story altogether.

I completely agree that the pricing is a big step behind its competitors. But then again, in this segment, in order to sell around 20-30 more cars every month (with no guarantees), would Toyota bring down their profit margin?

The camry has always been and hereforth will be confined to a very specific segment of customers in India. It is those set of customers that Toyota will be targetting.

And for the esteemed fellow BHPians who have been comparing this with Skoda Superb, I urge you to go for a ride in both the vehicles. The ride quality and the seat comfort in Camry is way better than the Skoda. A chauffeur driven rich old man would actually consider this as a major plus point over the missing airbags or the expenses on fuel!!

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Harbir

That wasn't very realistic, was it? I mean if the camry is not sold anywhere with a diesel, and installing a new engine means the considerable expense of crash testing and development, besides other costs, they're hardly likely to incur that cost for a market that can only support a few thousand sales a year, are they?

I'd say they CAN afford to delay it. The 20-25lac premium car market isn't big enough or important enough to Toyota to make it worth investing in an Indian market special model of the camry.

I was referring to a killer price tag and not a diesel engine option, which i was sure will not be there.

Market for 20-25 may not be large, but not small also. Also the margins would definitely be better also. There is no need to invest in a separate model for India. All it needs is a better pricing.

Originally Posted by Carb

Hey captain,

The thing is, the Camry still has around 90% of its parts imported from Japan n Thai. So, although it ain't a CBU anymore, its not what you'd call 'cheap' to be causing any major changes in the pricing. Also the difference in feature list of Indian and US spec is a different story altogether.
===============

And for the esteemed fellow BHPians who have been comparing this with Skoda Superb, I urge you to go for a ride in both the vehicles. The ride quality and the seat comfort in Camry is way better than the Skoda. A chauffeur driven rich old man would actually consider this as a major plus point over the missing airbags or the expenses on fuel!!

CBU has very high import levies, whereas a CKD or assembled in India car will have far less cost, even if the majority of the parts are sourced from other countries. There are other manufacturer's who have done this quite effectively, right?

I agree to second part, the ride is definitely better in the Toyota, and the peace of mind that the old man would love to have!

[PPS]

Originally Posted by GTO

Hoteliers who were attracted to the Camry because of EPCG benefits will stay away though.

This could boost the sales of Kizashi which is a CBU! I have already seen the odd Kizashi on yellow plates. Camry's loss could be Kizashi's gain.

Btw, I'm shocked that Camry is only offered with 2 airbags! All variants of the much cheaper Jetta come standard with no less than 8 airbags.

[Harbir]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

I was referring to a killer price tag and not a diesel engine option, which i was sure will not be there.

I'm going to guess that they've priced it to maximize revenue (price x sales), a skill that toyota has in abundance.

Whatever toyota's strategy is, its obviously not one that makes sense to those who think the sensible course is to pull out all the stops if you're going to compete in a certain segment. Toyota's business plan for India almost certainly has ROI guidelines on its investments and I'd bet that if toyota is committing X million dollars to this market, Toyota worked out the optimal distribution of those dollars that left the Camry as we find it. It may make the camry look like an irrelevant overpriced bit player in its segment thats not interesting to most buyers, but my guess is that it will meet toyota's expectations, and Toyota's overall business in India will profit more from putting the investment dollars somewhere other than the Camry.

Just speculating

[dkaile]

India's infrastructure is just not ready to make the Camry a mainstay player like it is for Toyota in other countries. Hence Toyota has planned this product in a manner to just about complete its portfolio and nothing more than that.

BTW the new Camry is one of the best lookers in the D1 segment and sure looks like a mini Lexus. It may be short on some safety and luxury features but in terms of road presence, I think it is THE best amongst all other in the market today.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by dkaile

BTW the new Camry is one of the best lookers in the D1 segment and sure looks like a mini Lexus. It may be short on some safety and luxury features but in terms of road presence, I think it is THE best amongst all other in the market today.

There lies the problem IMHO. The Camry especially in its new avatar looks more like a poor man’s Lexus.

The car does have a nice stance, but best looker in the D-segment? With that excess dose of chrome, it actually gives stiff competition to the Sonata/i45 on exterior bling. And as far as interiors are concerned, this is no match to the likes of a Passat or the Superb – just my opinion

[Caramba]

What's with toyota and all the chrome, bulk discount? And the less said about the price the better. One would think they have learnt from past experience. Skimping on safety features when competition is hotting up! A really big let down!

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Ahmed

Back in Saudi - Toyota Camry is a winner always. My Dad had been driving one since 1979 (I think it was called a Cressida that time). He switched to the latest Camry whenever it was launched.

The Camry may have replaced the Cressida market-wise and may i say spiritually, but both are way different models. The Cressida being RWD and the base for the Lexus onslaught, while the Camry was just a compact sedan at that time, growing in size through the years while the dear Cressida was rested in favour of Lexus.
p.s- Care to show any pics you have of your Cressida?

[Ahmed]

Originally Posted by DicKy

p.s- Care to show any pics you have of your Cressida?

Actually I was a toddler those days when we had a Cressida but lemme hunt dad's archives I am sure there will be one and will post the same.

Thanks for correcting me here on this one. Appreciate it. Incomplete education is always dangerous.

[Ahmed]

Here is a 1985 Cressida sourced from the internet. Dad had a black one.